Rivers and Gysberts to Geelong?

[nicksaidsoyouknowitstrue 19]

cut the crap mate...you cant have it both ways..

He was more than able to play latter inthe year. DId Neeld use him much ..NO..

By your own argument ( liike to see you wiggle out of that ) it wasnt that hard. if Couch wasnt afforded too many games. Nor Fitzy. Why? Because they arent good enough yet. Liston..oh yeah baby...that works in AFL. Any seasoned observer will acknowledge theres a chasm between the comps. Many a Liston winner hasnt lit up the AFL. ( separate subject )

There a lot of positions going begging in the 1sts for anyone halfway decent who could play at AFL level.

Everyone keeps raving about Gysberts. ( a two game screamer so far ) so either he has the abilty or he hasnt.. Youre of the ilk that suggest he is. So why didnt he play more than he did. ?

It wasnt injury thart kept him out it was attitude.

Quite simply Neeld would rather play someone who at least understands therole and will apply themselves in favour of someone who thinks they are already there and ought to be selected.

if Gysberts was as good as you suggest but being kept down then he ought to at least be setting the Scorps on fire. .

He didnt.

[PaulRB 6,411]

Gysberts through lack of pre-season fitness and then injury has fallen a year behind his peers at the MFC and exposed himself to Neeld's Knife.

As a result he is under scrutiny.

Hard thing to judge from afar is to what extent has he bought into and been prepared to do everything the FD ask of him. And more.

If not he's on thin ice.

Edited September 12, 2012 by PaulRB

[nicksaidsoyouknowitstrue 19]

asked the coach why Couch hadn't had a game yet - reply was 'he had to wait his turn', thought it a strange answer myself - he did manage to play his first game a few weeks later, at the moment I see him long term.

remember he did come second in the VFL Liston trophy - one vote behind the winner, that pretty good in my book.

[Brayshaw Self 847]

asked the coach why Couch hadn't had a game yet - reply was 'he had to wait his turn', thought it a strange answer myself - he did manage to play his first game a few weeks later, at the moment I see him long term.

remember he did come second in the VFL Liston trophy - one vote behind the winner, that pretty good in my book.

Paul Johnson, Shane Valenti, Matthew Bate.

Finishing high in the Liston doesn't count for much if you have a glaring weakness in your game; Couch's being his severe lack of pace.

[olisik 4,060]

Same story posted again but 2 days later.

They really enjoy the copy paste tool down at the HUN dont they?

Melbourne defender Jared Rivers tests free agency waters 

[stuie 7,374]

Ummmm no Stuie.

Round 13 vs GWS. Both RIvers and Clark played forward and kicked 4 goals. Thought that was kinda obvious.

Rivers is a back. Stayed forward because we needed a marking target after Clark went down. Geez wanna talk obvious?!

[stuie 7,374]

He has shown glimpses of such, no argument, in fact much of the cause of many's frustration with him.. Glimpses, no stringing together of much.

Hird ? big call. Doubt it. . Id be happy if he were a consistent Gysberts

Your call on this is somewhat different to the opinons of others I have who watched him play. Lacklustrre, disinterested and underdone were comments offered to me. Sporadic and occasional were others. Glimpses is s consistent theme. Now I shall say I havent been to Casey at all this year but I trust these opinions.

Hes not any real different in age to Blease or Watts for that matter and older than Tommy Mac. Cant see how thats an out personally but happy to differ on opinion.

I'll defer to the FD as to what they actually do ( big of me I know ) . For someone whos been in the system now for 3 years he should be much further down the path. Im totally not fussed should the club trade him. I would agree one year is a nonsense and two reasonable should the club decide to retain him.

Ill accept that hes bought in should he excel at the coming preseason, if hes there

Fair enough mate. Respect what you're saying. For the record I didn't say he would be as good as Hird, just that I see him as a player that could develop into that sort of role where can go anywhere and do anything. I would love him to be further developed at this stage, he's had a bit of bad luck, but also, not many of our players have developed as planned, which will hopefully change under Neeld.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Stuie...for what its worth Id gladly eat crow, ( even philth ) and be absolutely wrong. Id love for these kids to come out and play mesmerising footy.

Ive got no problem what soever with genuine reasons for anything. its when the old excuse cart gets wheeled out, and not once, but time and time again. Not saying particularly in Jordans case , but many get this GOOJ card ( seemingly )

In the end im a pragmatist. if it looks liek it will take a long effort to realise what shouldnt take so long then Im all for trading on, in a fashion cutting a loss. Though I agree loss maybe to hefty a word but its along those lines.

I'll use the analogy of a plantation forest where you plant en mass. After a while you get rid of the sapplings that havent come on, then after a further period you cull the lesser of the trees in order for the better positioned ones to survive and flourish. In order to maintain a crop you plant more ..and on you go.

I see a footy list as very similar. with different players at different points in their 'life' cycle. Those that are taking too long to get off the ground make way for those that will/might. You cant persevere with everyone. You have to make a call at some point.

Im probably like you in wanting to see devvelopment under Neeld.

Maybe Jordan will with another full preseason. Im just not sold yet.

if he does...well we all win...and good for us ( all)

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie...for what its worth Id gladly eat crow, ( even philth ) and be absolutely wrong. Id love for these kids to come out and play mesmerising footy.

Ive got no problem what soever with genuine reasons for anything. its when the old excuse cart gets wheeled out, and not once, but time and time again. Not saying particularly in Jordans case , but many get this GOOJ card ( seemingly )

In the end im a pragmatist. if it looks liek it will take a long effort to realise what shouldnt take so long then Im all for trading on, in a fashion cutting a loss. Though I agree loss maybe to hefty a word but its along those lines.

I'll use the analogy of a plantation forest where you plant en mass. After a while you get rid of the sapplings that havent come on, then after a further period you cull the lesser of the trees in order for the better positioned ones to survive and flourish. In order to maintain a crop you plant more ..and on you go.

I see a footy list as very similar. with different players at different points in their 'life' cycle. Those that are taking too long to get off the ground make way for those that will/might. You cant persevere with everyone. You have to make a call at some point.

Im probably like you in wanting to see devvelopment under Neeld.

Maybe Jordan will with another full preseason. Im just not sold yet.

if he does...well we all win...and good for us ( all)

Spot on mate. I'm sick of the excuses many of our players get too. Also sick of us getting younger and younger, which just keeps setting us back, like we're constantly planning for 3 years from now and never actually getting there.

I'm not going to guarantee Gys will make it, but I think that what he could provide to us would be really valuable and different for MFC, worth a little more work before chucking in the compost. Mostly I think what we would get for him at this stage won't go down should he have another year like this one, so it's worth the gamble.

[stuie 7,374]

Hidden at the bottom of the article about Davey: "On free agency, Neeld said he fully understands the decision of Brent Moloney (restricted) and Jared Rivers (unrestricted) to test the waters as free agents."

Davey going nowhere

[Hannibal 5,814]

He was "officially" a free agent whether he tested the waters or not.

[beelzebub 23,383]

Stuie regarding Rivers ( FA) ..I think Neeld is in all reality just acknowedging the bloody obvious.. No Elephants in the room etc.

Interstingly though in anything ive seen on this Neeld is happy to suggest they can ,but wont match any Moloney bid..I.e hes free to go. No such utterances regarding Jared.Make of that what ever you like. I think its a case of ..Well you are free to look and go, but wed like you to stay. up to you etc.

I dont think hes 100% irreplacable, nor do I suspect does Neeld think he is.

Neeld would also be a realist and understand its hard to make only gains out of this new world of FA

[stuie 7,374]

Stuie regarding Rivers ( FA) ..I think Neeld is in all reality just acknowedging the bloody obvious.. No Elephants in the room etc.

Interstingly though in anything ive seen on this Neeld is happy to suggest they can ,but wont match any Moloney bid..I.e hes free to go. No such utterances regarding Jared.Make of that what ever you like. I think its a case of ..Well you are free to look and go, but wed like you to stay. up to you etc.

I dont think hes 100% irreplacable, nor do I suspect does Neeld think he is.

Neeld would also be a realist and understand its hard to make only gains out of this new world of FA

Yeah I get the same impression. Moloney is gone, done deal to whoever wants him, but my instinct says the club are being fair to Riv and will most probably match any other offers unless he gets one that is more than considerably overs and with a top 4 (or roundabouts) team.

[beelzebub 23,383]

also...dare i pursue the line of thinking.

The FD would more than likely be weighing up the pros and cons of Jared leaving. i.e would the compensation validate aloowing him to go ?

its a bit like moving from one escalator to another ...which one has better upside ?

Neeld and Co are at the beginning of a journey...they might be happy with a lot more new faces rather than fewer. We'll only know ( to some degree ) once the dust settles and we know our list going into next year. Wed definitely know the year after as thered b eno doubt of intentions versus opportunities.

[stuie 7,374]

also...dare i pursue the line of thinking.

The FD would more than likely be weighing up the pros and cons of Jared leaving. i.e would the compensation validate aloowing him to go ?

its a bit like moving from one escalator to another ...which one has better upside ?

Neeld and Co are at the beginning of a journey...they might be happy with a lot more new faces rather than fewer. We'll only know ( to some degree ) once the dust settles and we know our list going into next year. Wed definitely know the year after as thered b eno doubt of intentions versus opportunities.

The thing is, if Rivers was a free agent we would probably go after him! We need experience and more consistent players. If we lose him I'm sure we'll go hard after other senior FA's and we would then most likely get no compensation for Riv leaving.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Gysberts has played 21 games. Let me repeat that for you. 21 games. He is 20yo.

Can get his own footy which is more than 80% of our team can do.

Weighs more than Lucas Cook who is significantly taller.

A keeper for mine.

Kate Moss weighs more than Lucas Cook

[Hannibal 5,814]

Gysberts has played 21 games. Let me repeat that for you. 21 games. He is 20yo.

Can get his own footy which is more than 80% of our team can do.

Weighs more than Lucas Cook who is significantly taller.

A keeper for mine.

Gaff was drafted a year after Gysberts and is already one of West Coasts most important players.

Toby Greene was drafted 2 years after Gysberts and is already a highly rated young mid.

I could list a heap of players that are/were light years ahead in their third years.

He has ability, but he needs to get fit and lift some weights. I'm happy to keep him for one more year, but equally happy to show him the door. Just another BP "special".

[Cheap Seats 3,310]

Gaff was drafted a year after Gysberts and is already one of West Coasts most important players.

Toby Greene was drafted 2 years after Gysberts and is already a highly rated young mid.

I could list a heap of players that are/were light years ahead in their third years.

He has ability, but he needs to get fit and lift some weights. I'm happy to keep him for one more year, but equally happy to show him the door. Just another BP "special".

Agree BH

Sadly Gizz is not the only player currently on our list that doesn't look like an AFL player (physically not talent wise)

[dee-luded 2,959]

Kate Moss weighs more than Lucas Cook

Hmmm, & pllLAys harder, I'll bet.

[nutbean 8,838]

Agree BH

Sadly Gizz is not the only player currently on our list that doesn't look like an AFL player (physically not talent wise)

I dont think it is 100% about physical/weight but about fitness - I was surprised how skiny Gunston is. There is an issue with Gysberts frame but more of an issue of him looking like he is going to have a coronary 5 minutes into the first quarter.

[Hannibal 5,814]

I dont think it is 100% about physical/weight but about fitness - I was surprised how skiny Gunston is.

It is for an inside mid, which is Gysberts go and hardly Gunston's.

[nutbean 8,838]

It is for an inside mid, which is Gysberts go and hardly Gunston's.

Watching him (and yes I read what you wrote) I wasnt shocked about his size -I was shocked by how exhausted he looked after every effort.

[demoniac 1,336]

I have also heard that collingwood are very keen on Gysberts, with talks having taken place this week. If talent spotters like the cats and pies rate him, WTF would we be doing off loading him.

Also, Gerard Healy on AW said tonight that the Saints and Cats are both putting offers to Riv. Culturally I cant see how we can let him go....... great clubman we need to pay overs to.

what if trading Gysberts secured us a talented player?

he is under contract for 2013 so we are not going to give him away.

his challenge is to build a frame that can stand up to the rigours of AFL footy. He is defintely more footballer than athlete.

[DeeZee 7,445]

Rivers is a very good player ....we would want a very good player in return.

Mitch Duncan?

[nutbean 8,838]

Rivers is a very good player ....we would want a very good player in return.

Mitch Duncan?

ughhhh -free agent