And another one bites the dust - Cook

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Has the club made a statement about these 2 players yet?

KB & Jon Ralph just paid out on us again.

Is it still a HUN rumour? or fact..

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Has the club made a statement about these 2 players yet?

KB & Jon Ralph just paid out on us again.

Is it still a HUN rumour? or fact..

What was it KB and Ralphy were saying?

I find it amazing that KB can pay out on any team! Has anyone ever rang him up on SEN to remind him that his beloved Tigers have played in the finals twice in the last 30 years!!!

[old dee 22,945]

Has the club made a statement about these 2 players yet?

KB & Jon Ralph just paid out on us again.

Is it still a HUN rumour? or fact..

A very good question that no one has the answer to at present wyl.

To my knowledge there has been no comment from anyone at the MFC.

Seems to be a lot of smoke for there to be no fire.

We will all look very silly after 203+ posts if it turns out to be incorrect.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Actually Morton was our very first player drafted in the Bailey era.

He (Morton) was, but I thought Craig Cameron was still there at that time. But he must have just left prior. > CC apparently joined the Tiges in Sept 2008.

http://www.richmondfc.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/6301/newsid/68100/default.aspx

http://demonwiki.org/Barry+Prendergast

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

A very good question that no one has the answer to at present wyl.

To my knowledge there has been no comment from anyone at the MFC.

Seems to be a lot of smoke for there to be no fire.

We will all look very silly after 203+ posts if it turns out to be incorrect.

Thats what i was thinking!!

They were paying out in terms of high draft picks. Similar to in here.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Melbourne's DRAFTING is not the issue.

Its development is.

It's both Cudi, & it comes back to our administrators each & every time.., They just don't hire the best.

WE have to watch these blokes & keep the fires beneath them burning to keep them off they're backsides & head down.

[Freak 100]

can someone please tell me where the gysberts rumour came from? I can't find it anywhere on the internet. Was it said on the radio from someone?

[dee-luded 2,958]

context is a wonderful thing Rhino

The originating comment made mention that Morton was a Bailey era pickup not Danihers This is so. Its irrelevent to this that CAC was there. The poster was differentiating between Coaches

No, I was trying to differentiate between Footy dept's & recruiters.

I was trying to say that CaC was there, & called Morton @ P4, but CaC had also gone to the Tiges at that stage, & it was indeed Prendergast.

My point was that we should Stop blaming the messenger, (Bailey) for the draft selections, or for his appointment, or the appointment of CaC.

We need to be hot on the MFC for being inept in selecting the Wrong managers who did the recruiting & running of the footy dept itself. This is where we start to Fail.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Bailey Era??? Here it is again, slanging Bailey.

Moloney, Petterd, & Morton were all of the Daniher regime with CCameron.

The poor culture was well and truly ingrained thru the Daniher era. We've been slow to recognise & try to rectify this.

Bailey may not have been the toughest coach, but maybe he couldn't be, with the Heavy Tail wagging him about. The Recruiting, under his reign wasn't by him, and to the best of my knowledge, he didn't appoint the recruiters. The club/Footy dept would have.

Dee-luded, heres your post. Ive highlighted the reference i alluded to.

Morton was NOT of the Daniher reign. He was of Baileys. CAC was involved with both. Your defending Bailey ,as your welcome to but the idea that Morton is not of his era is simply wrong. Thats my only point in this.

cheers

[dee-luded 2,958]

Dee-luded, heres your post. Ive highlighted the reference i alluded to.

Morton was NOT of the Daniher reign. He was of Baileys. CAC was involved with both. Your defending Bailey ,as your welcome to but the idea that Morton is not of his era is simply wrong. Thats my only point in this.

cheers

Your completely missing the point I was trying to make. I thought CaC called Mortons name, but he'd had left at that time.

You don't need to bring up my post as I'm not a liar.

I may not have written it well But I was trying to say stop wasting our energy & bullets on the messengers like Bailey.

Our main fault in the club is the clubs culture so we need to look at our administrators & they're decisions of the people they employ.

We call the wrong players (too many choirboys) & the culture softens the ones we get further.

Bailey isn't to blame for Morton or Bennell, the recruiters are.. so as long as we keep 'hating' Bailey, we keep missing our rightful targets.. and we still miss out on cleaning up our own demons.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Some clubs develop better than others, you only have to look at Sydney as an example with Teddy Richards, etc. I doubt anyone tries to devalue the benefits of great coaching and development, but I do shake my head at the shallow thinkers that put success purely down to development and pay little heed to drafting.

There's a reason that former coaches talk about the quality of lists and which list you'd rather have; and it's because they know that there's no magic wand that will suddenly turn a poor list into a good one. It takes time to bring in talent and get the mix of players you want. Malthouse would already be looking at the holes in Carlton's list. He has two avenues - trade and draft. His recruiters will spend countless hours reviewing, interviewing, watching and analysing stats and tapes to ensure they get the picks right. They're not assuming they can get any old plodder through the door and suddenly develop them into a good player. They want to get the best possible talent they can from each pick available to them. Or trade in a proven talent like Cloke.

Richmond delisted top 20 players such as Oakley-Nichols, Meyer, Pattison and Polo. But they had wins with Deledio, Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt. Some were good picks and some were bad. And it's pretty obvious that the picks at the very pointy end of the draft were the easy ones to get right. The skill in recruiting is to regularly nail your good picks (up to pick 30 or 40 depending on the draft) and get the odd win later in the draft and rookie list.

If you look at most clubs it's generally their early picks and Father Sons are their best players. It's no coincidence. And no doubt this year's AA side will be made up of many early picks and Father Sons. You have to nail your picks.

We haven't. They've been a disaster.

[beelzebub 22,244]

Your completely missing the point I was trying to make. I thought CaC called Mortons name, but he'd had left at that time.

You don't need to bring up my post as I'm not a liar.

I may not have written it well But I was trying to say stop wasting our energy & bullets on the messengers like Bailey.

Our main fault in the club is the clubs culture so we need to look at our administrators & they're decisions of the people they employ.

We call the wrong players (too many choirboys) & the culture softens the ones we get further.

Bailey isn't to blame for Morton or Bennell, the recruiters are.. so as long as we keep 'hating' Bailey, we keep missing our rightful targets.. and we still miss out on cleaning up our own demons.

I havent accused you of lying. Simply i have put a fact where it needs to be.

Daniher quit before the end of season 2007. CAC was still there when Bailey took over. CAC left for Richmond after the draft.

CAC did call out Mortons name, but with Bailey

its that simple

Edited September 6, 2012 by belzebub59

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Some clubs develop better than others, you only have to look at Sydney as an example with Teddy Richards, etc. I doubt anyone tries to devalue the benefits of great coaching and development, but I do shake my head at the shallow thinkers that put success purely down to development and pay little heed to drafting.

There's a reason that former coaches talk about the quality of lists and which list you'd rather have; and it's because they know that there's no magic wand that will suddenly turn a poor list into a good one. It takes time to bring in talent and get the mix of players you want. Malthouse would already be looking at the holes in Carlton's list. He has two avenues - trade and draft. His recruiters will spend countless hours reviewing, interviewing, watching and analysing stats and tapes to ensure they get the picks right. They're not assuming they can get any old plodder through the door and suddenly develop them into a good player. They want to get the best possible talent they can from each pick available to them. Or trade in a proven talent like Cloke.

Richmond delisted top 20 players such as Oakley-Nichols, Meyer, Pattison and Polo. But they had wins with Deledio, Martin, Cotchin and Riewoldt. Some were good picks and some were bad. And it's pretty obvious that the picks at the very pointy end of the draft were the easy ones to get right. The skill in recruiting is to regularly nail your good picks (up to pick 30 or 40 depending on the draft) and get the odd win later in the draft and rookie list.

If you look at most clubs it's generally their early picks and Father Sons are their best players. It's no coincidence. And no doubt this year's AA side will be made up of many early picks and Father Sons. You have to nail your picks.

We haven't. They've been a disaster.

Bang on the $$$ there.

This draft period just has to be correct in every way for the MFC otherwise i fear for our existance at the eliite AFL level.

[GM11 695]

I still maintain there's a need for players able to rack up high numbers of uncontested posessions.

This is where I think someone like Bennell should excel.

Problem - we have no Suckling or Young who can regularly hit up a free player.

More often than not we turn an uncontested possession into a turnover.

[Allen Jakovich 516]

The club has to make a decision about how much time they are prepared to give a player to develop and if they can be certain that he will turn out the way they want him. They cannot invest a further 3 to 4 years only to find out at the end of it he hasn't developed at all; if we were a top side you can take a chance but in our situation you can't.

There are lot's of physical pressures on AFL players when they take the field and it doesn't have to be actual it can be implied and a player needs to know how to handle it and not be intimidated by it.

As for Gysberts he has been on the list for 4 years and hasn't put on any weight or developed his body so the club may view him as a player that just doesn't have the body to play the game the way we want it played.

Gysberts was told by Bailey to put on weight. He was told by Neeld to loose it. This is not a rumour.

I still think it is the right decision to offload him, however.

[MadAsHell 4,088]

Your completely missing the point I was trying to make. I thought CaC called Mortons name, but he'd had left at that time.

You don't need to bring up my post as I'm not a liar.

I may not have written it well But I was trying to say stop wasting our energy & bullets on the messengers like Bailey.

Our main fault in the club is the clubs culture so we need to look at our administrators & they're decisions of the people they employ.

We call the wrong players (too many choirboys) & the culture softens the ones we get further.

Bailey isn't to blame for Morton or Bennell, the recruiters are.. so as long as we keep 'hating' Bailey, we keep missing our rightful targets.. and we still miss out on cleaning up our own demons.

I see the point your making dee-luded. I don't think anyone is trying to say this is all Bailey's fault.

But at the same time he's just as much to blame as the recruiters. CCameron and BPrendergast would have suggested players to Bailey and Daniher prior and they would have had the option of saying 'NO' to soft, or wont make it etc....

There's several people at fault for the mistakes that have been previously, not one persons. Having said that there's equal the blood on Bailey's hands as their is Danihers, Cameron's and Prendergats's.

Edit: Spelling

Edited September 6, 2012 by Tall Defence

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Gysberts was told by Bailey to put on weight. He was told by Neeld to loose it. This is not a rumour.

He never had any weight to lose.

[jurrahcane 70]

Lucas Cook was always mentioned as a 20-30 pick in the year he was drafted.

Most had us selecting Darling or Jacobs with our pick. Prendergast was a clown that has lead to the MFC demise and the current state.

1. Emma Quayle (Age) - Geelong Pick 23, Lucas Cook

12. MELBOURNE - DYSON HEPPELL

Vital information: 18, from Gippsland Power. 189cm, 80. Clean, creative half-back/onballer who plays with urgency and a long left-foot kick.

The rationale: Too good to leave sitting there. The Dees will consider any tall options that fall to them, but Heppell is a top talent. Put him at half-back and send Jack Grimes into the midfield.

Best-laid plans: If Tom Lynch is there, he'll appeal. So will Jack Darling. Midfield options Shaun Atley and Brodie Smith will tempt them.

2. Paul Daffey (AFL) - Kangas Pick 27, Lucas Cook

12. MELBOURNE - DANIEL GORRINGE

We missed on Jacobs, Harper, Smith, Jetta, Atley, Darling (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

Edited September 6, 2012 by jurrahcane

[dee-luded 2,958]

I havent accused you of lying. Simply i have put a fact where it needs to be.

Daniher quit before the end of season 2007. CAC was still there when Bailey took over. CAC left for Richmond after the draft.

CAC did call out Mortons name, but with Bailey

its that simple

comeon, I know you weren't, But it seemed overkill to go to the trouble to drag up the post instead of asking me what i meant or was trying to get at.

If I hear someone say something to me that doesn't seem to make sense, I enquire with them what they mean, as I may have missed, or misinterpreted something?

[Sir Why You Little 34,658]

Lucas Cook was always mentioned as a 20-30 pick in the year he was drafted.

Most had us selecting Darling or Jacobs with our pick. Prendergast was a clown that has lead to the MFC demise and the current state.

1. Emma Quayle (Age) - Geelong Pick 23, Lucas Cook

12. MELBOURNE - DYSON HEPPELL

Vital information: 18, from Gippsland Power. 189cm, 80. Clean, creative half-back/onballer who plays with urgency and a long left-foot kick.

The rationale: Too good to leave sitting there. The Dees will consider any tall options that fall to them, but Heppell is a top talent. Put him at half-back and send Jack Grimes into the midfield.

Best-laid plans: If Tom Lynch is there, he'll appeal. So will Jack Darling. Midfield options Shaun Atley and Brodie Smith will tempt them.

2. Paul Daffey (AFL) - Kangas Pick 27, Lucas Cook

12. MELBOURNE - DANIEL GORRINGE

We missed on Jacobs, Harper, Smith, Jetta, Atley, Darling (!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

I need narcotics after reading that!!

What was our strategy??

What the F$&@k were they thinking?

Did Bailey want to keep his job??

Edited September 6, 2012 by why you little

[Nasher 33,133]

Gysberts was told by Bailey to put on weight. He was told by Neeld to loose it. This is not a rumour.

To you it's not a rumour because you've got some information that you believe fact. For us, it's a rumour, because it comes from someone who calls himself "Allen Jakovich", who posted it anonymously without us having any way to verify the information. This is precisely how rumours start.

[dee-luded 2,958]

I see the point your making dee-luded. I don't think anyone is trying to say this is all Bailey's fault.

But at the same time he's just as much to blame as the recruiters. CCameron and BPrendergast would have suggested players to Bailey and Daniher prior and they would have had the option of saying 'NO' to soft, or wont make it etc....

There's several people at fault for the mistakes that have been previously, not one persons. Having said that there's equal the blood on Bailey's hands as their is Danihers, Cameron's and Prendergats's.

Edit: Spelling

Yep, but the common theme together with our footy cultural issues, is the cultural issues of our Boards. They choose our staff & coaches, so they're 'theme' of what they want to achieve is closer to what I'm saying brings us 'choirboys' & failures.

If the Board has a too squeaky clean direction, the people they hire will mirror that direction. and so on into the footy dept.

We need to become Rugged, & Ruthless, Brutal onfield... stop this sunday school fuschia act & get on with becoming Demons!

[Sleeve 67]

Allen Jakovich is close to the mark, however Neeld at no stage requested he "lose" weight, rather, he get his core strength and muscle tone to a satisfactory level whilst increasing his endurance thus giving him the ability to run both ways.

Let's just say the word leaking from the club is that Jordan simpy doesn't want it bad enough and at his post season interview and medical examinations he was given some brutal home truths that have left him shocked and considering his tenure at the club.

[Viney12 196]

Melbourne's DRAFTING is not the issue.

Its development is.

It's both

Gysberts was told by Bailey to put on weight. He was told by Neeld to loose it. This is not a rumour.

I still think it is the right decision to offload him, however.

Can't believe that. Why would Neeld tell a kid who needs to gain approx. 8kgs that he needed to lose weight?

[Viney12 196]

Allen Jakovich is close to the mark, however Neeld at no stage requested he "lose" weight, rather, he get his core strength and muscle tone to a satisfactory level whilst increasing his endurance thus giving him the ability to run both ways.

Let's just say the word leaking from the club is that Jordan simpy doesn't want it bad enough and at his post season interview and medical examinations he was given some brutal home truths that have left him shocked and considering his tenure at the club.

If that's the case, and he can't handle home truths, then we're better off without him