Jack Watts

[Deestroy All 14,262]

I agree with Watts' described limitations - but players can improve in this area - although he didn't start from so far back, our recently retired Brad Green really improved in this area and became a courageous contested player, particularly in marking contests. In ground balls he also attacked the contest but didn't have the lateral movement or quick hands to extract himself from trouble that Watts has. I think at some stage Brad Green realised what was required to be the best player he could be - I admire that.

Good comparison, both very good at 2 sports, nice hands and elite(or thereabouts) by foot. Perhaps Brad could mentor Jack.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Watts just because Green became courageous though.

The thing I wonder about is what the coaches are thinking or what Watts is being told. Months ago, I think it was against Carlton I saw a couple of the most pathetic instances of Watts not jumping into/over a marking contest that you'll ever see and voiced my displeasure. Do the coaches do that? Is anyone setting any standards for this guy to follow or is he just allowed to run around and rack up possessions to justify his spot? I mean Lynden Dunn was moved back there and did the same job FFS, as H says, playing in defence isn't hard, anyone can do it it seems.

It's the same thing over and over again, I argue with my uncle about this all the time, he keeps going back to Watts' skills and that he'll be a good player. No one is disputing that, he has skills and will be a good player, but there are hundreds of good players. Watts' attributes should make him a great player, the way he plays will hold him back until he changes or someone drills it into him. I doubt it can happen from what I've seen.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Good comparison, both very good at 2 sports, nice hands and elite(or thereabouts) by foot. Perhaps Brad could mentor Jack.

I wouldn't hold my breath on Watts just because Green became courageous though.

The thing I wonder about is what the coaches are thinking or what Watts is being told. Months ago, I think it was against Carlton I saw a couple of the most pathetic instances of Watts not jumping into/over a marking contest that you'll ever see and voiced my displeasure. Do the coaches do that? Is anyone setting any standards for this guy to follow or is he just allowed to run around and rack up possessions to justify his spot? I mean Lynden Dunn was moved back there and did the same job FFS, as H says, playing in defence isn't hard, anyone can do it it seems.

It's the same thing over and over again, I argue with my uncle about this all the time, he keeps going back to Watts' skills and that he'll be a good player. No one is disputing that, he has skills and will be a good player, but there are hundreds of good players. Watts' attributes should make him a great player, the way he plays will hold him back until he changes or someone drills it into him. I doubt it can happen from what I've seen.

Neeld can only say 'go in hard Jack', 'get to marking contests Jack' ... so many times. It would be great if he could somehow personally make him do these things but he can't. Only Jack can do that. But he won't. And unfortunately it's the nature of our tough, brutal sport that he will continue to be called as a Big Girl until he does.

[Nasher 33,133]

No one is disputing that, he has skills and will be a good player, but there are hundreds of good players. Watts' attributes should make him a great player, the way he plays will hold him back until he changes or someone drills it into him. I doubt it can happen from what I've seen.

I agree - my satisfaction in a player's output is not absolute, it's relative to where their ceiling is. For someone like Jordie McKenzie, I'm stoked that he's made it to "adequate for now". Lynden Dunn is probably also "adequate for now" which is a disappointment; I think he could be a better player than he is. For Watts, "Good" is disappointing given the attributes he does have.

[stuie 7,374]

Neeld can only say 'go in hard Jack', 'get to marking contests Jack' ... so many times. It would be great if he could somehow personally make him do these things but he can't. Only Jack can do that. But he won't. And unfortunately it's the nature of our tough, brutal sport that he will continue to be called as a Big Girl until he does.

Luckily you barrack for West Coast hey RR

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Neeld can only say 'go in hard Jack', 'get to marking contests Jack' ... so many times. It would be great if he could somehow personally make him do these things but he can't. Only Jack can do that. But he won't. And unfortunately it's the nature of our tough, brutal sport that he will continue to be called as a Big Girl until he does.

So then what happens? Do they let him play on his terms because he's a #1 pick with nice skills and hope that the penny (or his balls) drops?

Do they drop him to Casey until he consistently plays with intent to get the ball before anyone else?

Let him coast until another coach comes along and does a Travis Johnstone-esque statement?

Trade him now?

What is a potential solution to this problem?

[Soidee 1,496]

Will be a great player. He has football smarts.

Built like an a string bean....someone has to get him bulked up

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Will be a great player. He has football smarts.

Built like an a string bean....someone has to get him bulked up

Oh thank god for that. I can now rest easy.

[stuie 7,374]

So then what happens? Do they let him play on his terms because he's a #1 pick with nice skills and hope that the penny (or his balls) drops?

Do they drop him to Casey until he consistently plays with intent to get the ball before anyone else?

Let him coast until another coach comes along and does a Travis Johnstone-esque statement?

Trade him now?

What is a potential solution to this problem?

Get over it and let Neeld decide if Watts plays and where.

Maybe try forgetting where he was picked and just accept him as a player.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Get over it and let Neeld decide if Watts plays and where.

Maybe try forgetting where he was picked and just accept him as a player.

I wasn't speaking to you cheersquad boy, I was talking to people with realistic opinions which I value.

And no, Neeld will do what I damn well tell him to do.

[rpfc 27,573]

DA - Isn't it obvious from this thread what we need to do?

We need to go back in time and get the big Fijian ahead of Watts and all can be well and right again in Demonland...

Alternate reality rpfc:

Look, we have made the decision to take the bumbling oaf of a ruckman and we should see it through as I am intrigued to see what he can become.

BTW, his dreads look like they would smell...

[Nasher 33,133]

So then what happens? Do they let him play on his terms because he's a #1 pick with nice skills and hope that the penny (or his balls) drops?

Do they drop him to Casey until he consistently plays with intent to get the ball before anyone else?

Let him coast until another coach comes along and does a Travis Johnstone-esque statement?

Trade him now?

What is a potential solution to this problem?

Send him the message to go hard or it's Casey for the year next year. He'll either go hard, or play at Casey for the year. If he achieves the former, he's kept. If he doesn't, he's traded for scrap value - I'd bet that for the talent there'd be some other club willing to have a go at achieving what we couldn't. We could get really, really lucky like with Travis or Brock and score a first rounder, but we'd be looking at a second rounder or worse in reality I think.

It sounds pretty simple, makes me wonder what I'm missing. I'm in danger of entering the zone of posting meaningless vagaries (which I hate it when other people do), but I hate the idea of letting him coast and be "okay"; I want an environment that demands our players get the best out of themselves.

[Hannibal 5,814]

DA - Isn't it obvious from this thread what we need to do?

We need to go back in time and get the big Fijian ahead of Watts and all can be well and right again in Demonland...

Wrong thread. I think.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

It sounds pretty simple, makes me wonder what I'm missing. I'm in danger of entering the zone of posting meaningless vagaries (which I hate it when other people do), but I hate the idea of letting him coast and be "okay"; I want an environment that demands our players get the best out of themselves.

So do I.

Watts is so "Daniher era", in that like Trapper, Yze, Bruce, Robbo, Beamer etc... there's a glaring deficiency that doesn't seem to be being rectified, at least from the outside looking in, as I mentioned above Watts is still playing like he did in that Carlton game, so it seems he gets a pass mark even with soft efforts.

If that is the case, shouldn't he have been at Casey already? Sending him there next year for no improvement could decrease his market value, what if someone was willing to pay a nice price for him now?

Half back flankers with nice disposal are more easily developed or traded for than say a good key forward or key mid. I don't see Watts ever being a good key forward, certainly not a finals winning key forward.

I think I lean towards shopping him around now, this coaching panel and recruiting staff (do we have any?) had nothing to do with drafting Watts, so it won't be seen as a fail for their past efforts. It'd be a gamble to see what they could get in return though. I don't see it happening, but I think I'd be all for it.

[Edit] I trailed off where I was going with the Daniher era bit... We are trying to build a new culture, hard working, selfless young leadership group to set the examples for years to come. I don't see Watts fitting into that in any way shape or form.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Deestroy All

[Deestroy All 14,262]

DA - Isn't it obvious from this thread what we need to do?

We need to go back in time and get the big Fijian ahead of Watts and all can be well and right again in Demonland...

Alternate reality rpfc:

I didn't bother with that thread.

I'm all about what we can do now, not what those whom aren't even with us any more didn't do back when.

[Brian Wilson 331]

Watts is so "Daniher era", in that like Trapper, Yze, Bruce, Robbo, Beamer etc... there's a glaring deficiency that doesn't seem to be being rectified, at least from the outside looking in, as I mentioned above Watts is still playing like he did in that Carlton game, so it seems he gets a pass mark even with soft efforts.

Are you counting the Daniher era as a failure?? I rather enjoyed going to the finals every other year.

[Deestroy All 14,262]

Are you counting the Daniher era as a failure?? I rather enjoyed going to the finals every other year.

I wasn't commenting on that era as a whole, it's pretty obvious what the players I mentioned above got away with week after week with no real change over the journey.

It's something this culture needs to weed out. No player is perfect, but there are simple things everyone needs to do to be part of a great team.

Looking back from where we are now, I do appreciate the Daniher era more than I did back then.

[Range Rover 1,935]

So then what happens? Do they let him play on his terms because he's a #1 pick with nice skills and hope that the penny (or his balls) drops?

Do they drop him to Casey until he consistently plays with intent to get the ball before anyone else?

Let him coast until another coach comes along and does a Travis Johnstone-esque statement?

Trade him now?

What is a potential solution to this problem?

This is the question isn't it. What to do about it.

The first thing is to confront the problem before it's too late. Neeld needs to take Watts aside for chat before he heads off for a holiday and say ...

"Jack, next year must be a huge one from you. You're behind where we need you to be. A fair way behind. I want you to be 5-7 kilos heavier by the time the first pre-season games start because starting round 1 you're going to be playing on a key position player from the opposition every single week, whether it be forward or back. You'll never find yourself playing as a loose man. There are a number of KPI's your going to have to meet. You're going to have to will yourself into marking contests. You're going to have to show some physicality. You're going to get hurt, then get up and be willing to get hurt again. And even when you're getting towelled up, we're going to leave you out there on whoever it is to see if you have the fortitude to will yourself back into the game. There'll be nowhere to hide for you. If you can't meet these requirements, you'll be dropped to Casey. If you keep getting dropped to Casey we'll in all likelihood be putting you up for trade and accepting whatever we can get for you. Sorry to be blunt mate but this is brutally tough game and we need brutally tough players. We won't be accepting anything less at Melbourne anymore. I think everyone's aware that's how things work under me. Now ... I'm willing to back you in as I reckon deep down, you've got what it takes to be an influential player in this compeition, not 'just another player' happy to coast along on their own terms. But it's up to you Wattsy. Entirely up to you."

At risk of things going seriously belly up, I'd go down this track first DA. The rewards would be immense if Watts responded well to it.

Edited August 28, 2012 by Range Rover

[jackaub 1,402]

Far too much emphasis is placed on the reading of body language. Vague concepts like 'intensity', 'attack(ing) a situation', and 'look(ing) ruthless' have never won a game of football. They merely tell us about a supporter's perception. Let's focus on what he has actually done this year.

Hasnt done nearly enough Wilo in my opinion

He at least should try to look like he is having a goYou are trying to defend the indefensiblehe is weak and soft and i really dont think he is committed to MFC or a football career

Just my opinion: another wasted draft pick

[Bitter but optimistic 21,369]

Get over it and let Neeld decide if Watts plays and where.

Maybe try forgetting where he was picked and just accept him as a player.

You're fighting the good fight stuie but I don't think you'll ever win.

I f Watts racks up 40 possies next week and kicks 6 from the backline, it will be a case of- he was left loose, his opponent was injured, favourable umpiring, easy possessions, lucky.

You get the drift. Christ who would want to be a first draft pick at Melbourne.

[IRW 1,251]

I think I lean towards shopping him around now, this coaching panel and recruiting staff (do we have any?) had nothing to do with drafting Watts, so it won't be seen as a fail for their past efforts. It'd be a gamble to see what they could get in return though. I don't see it happening, but I think I'd be all for it.

[Edit]

I imagine its unlikely that they will actively shop him around;after all the coach has consistently said that Jack is doing all that is asked of him. . But if a big ticket deal required a player trade to top up a draft pick concession to get the deal done...........???? Everyone has their price and currently Jack isnt anywhere near making Leigh Mathews eat his words

[Hardnut 327]

This is the question isn't it. What to do about it.

The first thing is to confront the problem before it's too late. Neeld needs to take Watts aside for chat before he heads off for a holiday and say ...

"Jack, next year must be a huge one from you. You're behind where we need you to be. A fair way behind. I want you to be 5-7 kilos heavier by the time the first pre-season games start because starting round 1 you're going to be playing on a key position player from the opposition every single week, whether it be forward or back. You'll never find yourself playing as a loose man. There are a number of KPI's your going to have to meet. You're going to have to will yourself into marking contests. You're going to have to show some physicality. You're going to get hurt, then get up and be willing to get hurt again. And even when you're getting towelled up, we're going to leave you out there on whoever it is to see if you have the fortitude to will yourself back into the game. There'll be nowhere to hide for you. If you can't meet these requirements, you'll be dropped to Casey. If you keep getting dropped to Casey we'll in all likelihood be putting you up for trade and accepting whatever we can get for you. Sorry to be blunt mate but this is brutally tough game and we need brutally tough players. We won't be accepting anything less at Melbourne anymore. I think everyone's aware that's how things work under me. Now ... I'm willing to back you in as I reckon deep down, you've got what it takes to be an influential player in this compeition, not 'just another player' happy to coast along on their own terms. But it's up to you Wattsy. Entirely up to you."

At risk of things going seriously belly up, I'd go down this track first DA. The rewards would be immense if Watts responded well to it.

Clearly you are not a coach or a teacher RR, based on your comments.

However, I'll take them in the spirit in which I think you meant them, and I really hope your ideas work for Jack's sake and for MFC.

Perhaps, it might be useful to look at some other points.

Why is JW apparently lighter this year than last year, when he should by now be able to crash packs with a big body?

Why hasn't a coach worked out where JW plays best by watching his play - someone could even ask him where he wants to play and work on that! (Of course, that doesn't mean every player can play in his own favorite position, before someone jumps at the comment!)

I suspect there is a serious deficiency in the psychological side of the coaching at MFC - it takes a real personal talent to deal with modern day players, especially intelligent ones - you can't just 'rev them up' or 'threaten them' anymore. The two Scotts have shown that talent with very different groups of players - it isn't easy to walk into a top club and win another flag, and it isn't easy to walk into an impoverished club and bring them up again.

MFC coaching needs to be smarter!

[Range Rover 1,935]

Clearly you are not a coach or a teacher RR, based on your comments.

However, I'll take them in the spirit in which I think you meant them, and I really hope your ideas work for Jack's sake and for MFC.

Perhaps, it might be useful to look at some other points.

Why is JW apparently lighter this year than last year, when he should by now be able to crash packs with a big body?

Why hasn't a coach worked out where JW plays best by watching his play - someone could even ask him where he wants to play and work on that! (Of course, that doesn't mean every player can play in his own favorite position, before someone jumps at the comment!)

I suspect there is a serious deficiency in the psychological side of the coaching at MFC - it takes a real personal talent to deal with modern day players, especially intelligent ones - you can't just 'rev them up' or 'threaten them' anymore. The two Scotts have shown that talent with very different groups of players - it isn't easy to walk into a top club and win another flag, and it isn't easy to walk into an impoverished club and bring them up again.

MFC coaching needs to be smarter!

Watts doesn't need a teacher. He needs a drill sargeant. And he needs to be punished (dropped) if he doesn't follow orders.

[Hardnut 327]

Watts doesn't need a teacher. He needs a drill sargeant. And he needs to be punished (dropped) if he doesn't follow orders.

As I suspected, you don't have a clue about people management RR.

By your reasoning, Watts may as well leave now, because Neeld is a teacher! (Of course, Neeld could leave and let us bring in a 'drill sergeant' - MM where are you? MM is actually better than that - sorry MM.)

Modern coaches have the skills of good teachers (which includes the ability to have a rant now and then).

RR, perhaps you should resign yourself to starting new threads or polls - what have I said!!!

[Range Rover 1,935]

As I suspected, you don't have a clue about people management RR.

By your reasoning, Watts may as well leave now, because Neeld is a teacher! (Of course, Neeld could leave and let us bring in a 'drill sergeant' - MM where are you? MM is actually better than that - sorry MM.)

Modern coaches have the skills of good teachers (which includes the ability to have a rant now and then).

RR, perhaps you should resign yourself to starting new threads or polls - what have I said!!!

You're a marvel HN. Still on this MM thing!

Watts needs to be bad cop'd. Not coddled. The kid gloves treatment will do nothing for him.

[Bitter but optimistic 21,369]

Watts doesn't need a teacher. He needs a drill sargeant. And he needs to be punished (dropped) if he doesn't follow orders.

"needs to be punished" . Is dropping him enough? Perhaps some time in the stocks? Or, perhaps you could give him a jolly good flogging RR?