I love how people say guys like Wines and Rich dont have too much upside because they already physically ready. . Absolute no clue about football whatsoever.

One thing to note is there's a difference between guys who are physically ready to compete and guys who are physically maxed out. For example Dusty Martin definitely had size, speed and strength to compete but plenty of work to do on endurance. I'd say it's one of the hardest things about recruiting would be trying to predict what guys are capable of with their bodies. None of that compares of course to guys who's talent is maxed out. Rhys Palmer to me was a guy who not only had the body but was playing at his ability from day 1. Wines reminds me more of Selwood in that his body is good but probably can even got up a huge amount in speed and fitness and his game has gears to go as well. Again though I'm not trying to say he's as good as Selwood or even that he'll end up better than Toumpas.

I think it's one reason character comes in. Because either way if a guy has an AFL ready body or not it if he has the determination at least you know he'll improve as much as he can. Toumpas has shown us some beautiful kicking, the ability to find the ball on occasions and his character to care about games and to get super fit over preseason. That's a fair bit to show in 1 year.

Throw in Salem and Tyson along with Viney and Toumpas and we have our own Fab Four.

These sort of comments scare me as it wasn't to long ago when our 'fab four' were Scully, Morton, Gysberts and Trengove.

These sort of comments scare me as it wasn't to long ago when our 'fab four' were Scully, Morton, Gysberts and Trengove.

Me too deeko

Predictions on junior players are best left alone as 90% of them bit you on the bum.

I love how people say guys like Wines and Rich dont have too much upside because they already physically ready. . Absolute no clue about football whatsoever.

. It never ceases to amaze me how rude some posters can be to other posters.

. It never ceases to amaze me how rude some posters can be to other posters.

Amen to that binman

These sort of comments scare me as it wasn't to long ago when our 'fab four' were Scully, Morton, Gysberts and Trengove.

1 out of 3 ain't bad lol

You have to love Melbourne supporters. Every club in the competition would take Wines over Toumpas if they were now offered either.

Toumpas has great skills and is a very good decision maker. He'll become an excellent AFL player and possibly even A-grade one day. But until he vastly improves his physicality he has a long way to go at AFL level and I won't at all be surprised to see him play a few games at Casey this year.

You have to love Melbourne supporters. Every club in the competition would take Wines over Toumpas if they were now offered either.

Toumpas has great skills and is a very good decision maker. He'll become an excellent AFL player and possibly even A-grade one day. But until he vastly improves his physicality he has a long way to go at AFL level and I won't at all be surprised to see him play a few games at Casey this year.

Now where have I heard that before?

Hmm I think he is now in the west!

You have to love Melbourne supporters. Every club in the competition would take Wines over Toumpas if they were now offered either.

Toumpas has great skills and is a very good decision maker. He'll become an excellent AFL player and possibly even A-grade one day. But until he vastly improves his physicality he has a long way to go at AFL level and I won't at all be surprised to see him play a few games at Casey this year.

That is the result of people wanting certain players to be drafted. When the player they want is not taken by their club and then starts well, they feel upset. I can see why.

I along with many others thought we would take Daniel Talia and instead we took Gysberts. I was disappointed then. Today I feel angry about it. I knew nothing about these guys compared to the recruiters, I admit that, yet I would have taken Talia. What I can't understand is how could I with no knowledge want the player who will be very good, while the guy getting paid to do the job picks the bloke who has now left the AFL after basically failing to make the grade.

The above is but one example. Toumpas may be good in time and I really like him, but those who wanted Wines feel aggrieved at the moment and on present form are entitled to be.

PS. Toumpas may yet turn out to be the better player and obviously I hope that is the case.

PPS. Most recruiters would have taken Toumpas over Wines and I would imagine even Port.

Now where have I heard that before?

Hmm I think he is now in the west!

I think Watts and Toumpas have similar traits. Both have enormous ability, but both lack confidence and both aren't as hard at the contest as they need to be.

Roos is the perfect coach to get the best out of them. But I reckon it will be another 5 years before Toumpas remotely looks A-grade or at home in brutal matches against top sides.

I think Watts and Toumpas have similar traits. Both have enormous ability, but both lack confidence and both aren't as hard at the contest as they need to be.

Roos is the perfect coach to get the best out of them. But I reckon it will be another 5 years before Toumpas remotely looks A-grade or at home in brutal matches against top sides.

I'd throw Morton into that group too, albeit with less natural ability than the other two.

I'd throw Morton into that group too, albeit with less natural ability than the other two.

Morton is a VERY poor mans Watts - and I am not overrating Watts.

Jack hasn't made it yet, but he has some very finely tuned tools.

Morton looked raw till the day he was gone. I cannot think of an area in which Morton was superior to Watts.

Watts should make it, I really think he'll be a star.. As Watts gets older, he'll dominate AFL - like he dominated TAC.

I couldn't throw Toumpas in the conversation, he is a completely different player to both Watts and Morton.

Toumpas will need time, to my eye, he still needs to work on his core - and also needs A LOT of weight work, pushed off the ball far too easily.

These sort of comments scare me as it wasn't to long ago when our 'fab four' were Scully, Morton, Gysberts and Trengove.

Im happy to stick by it.

Im happy to stick by it.

I hope you're spot on Al, would love nothing more

Drafted by Port 16 months ago, might be time to move on.

While were banging on about Wines V Toumpas. Did anyone see Jack Martin play tonight? To think GC who already had a number of class mids selected him ahead of Hogan. I know it was his first game but the talk has been for over twelve months he is better that O'Meara. I only watched the first 2 and a half qtrs and was left wondering what the fuss was about. Yes he's young, yes it was his first game but he is miles behind O'Meara and Brad Crouch. I will watch him with interest this year. Could he be Tambling mark2?

While were banging on about Wines V Toumpas. Did anyone see Jack Martin play tonight? To think GC who already had a number of class mids selected him ahead of Hogan. I know it was his first game but the talk has been for over twelve months he is better that O'Meara. I only watched the first 2 and a half qtrs and was left wondering what the fuss was about. Yes he's young, yes it was his first game but he is miles behind O'Meara and Brad Crouch. I will watch him with interest this year. Could he be Tambling mark2?

MASSIVE LOL!!!! Give me a break!!!!

You have to love Melbourne supporters. Every club in the competition would take Wines over Toumpas if they were now offered either.

Toumpas has great skills and is a very good decision maker. He'll become an excellent AFL player and possibly even A-grade one day. But until he vastly improves his physicality he has a long way to go at AFL level and I won't at all be surprised to see him play a few games at Casey this year.

Got pushed off the ball too easily the other night, he does have a long way to go but should get there.

Toumpas is exactly the sort of kid that Roos won't play because they're not ready.

If Viney and Watts and the rest of the midfield are fit, I doubt Toumpas will get a game. He'll develop at Casey with Salem and we'll have to be patient.

Wines would smash the door down and force Roos to play him, but we don't have Wines so get over it.

I would bet my bottom dollar Toumpas in 3 years time is in the best 15 players in the comp, as will Viney and Hogan, my question is how much better can Wines get, he's already very good but not elite

Gotta love these unfounded pedictions lets just wait and see how he develops I dont think any worthwhile player needs 3 years to show what they have.

MASSIVE LOL!!!! Give me a break!!!!

Laugh as much as you want, my comparison to Tambling might be a bit over the top. I have watched 5 of the first six games missing just the North/Carlton game. I have been keen to watch first year players from all clubs. I watched last nights game with a few mates, we all keen to see what the fuss was about, considering how much this blokes tyres have been pumped up by the media and his teammates. Better than O'mera was what everyone was hearing, ready to step straight in. From what I've seen and I know it was his first game but he was way off the pace. Compare his debut to that of a Tom Mitchell, Brad Crouch, Jäger O'mera or young Libba. My comments are not based on number of touches but more so on were they contested,effective disposal, composure with/without the ball at the top level. He may well become a star but he's a long way off.

Edited February 17, 201411 yr by Al's Demons

Fark me are we still talking about the whole Wines VS Toumpas. Who gives a [censored]. Time to move on people and let it run it's course. Revisit this topic in 5 years and see who is the best then.

Toumpas over Wines doesn't bother me, even though Wines is clearly ahead of every other midfielder from his year and was available to us. In short, it wasn't a controversial choice.

Watts over NikNat. Scully and Trengove over Martin, Rohan and Sidebottom. All okay IMO. They weren't especially controversial decisions, and the compo we got from Scully defecting has been fantastic for this club.

The picks that bug me however are selecting Lucas Cook at pick 12, not selecting Rory Sloane at pick 35 (after we'd apparently committed to him), and not picking Luke Shuey or Zaharakis when they appeared the more obvious choices from those available. In retrospect, Talia over Gysberts would've been nice too.

This is where the former recruiters let us down IMO. That said, I have complete confidence in Jason Taylor and Todd Viney, given the way the last draft period panned out for us.

So yep - Wines would've been a great pick. Toumpas will be too. Our success or failure going forward won't be based in any way on this particular decision.

Gotta love these unfounded pedictions lets just wait and see how he develops I dont think any worthwhile player needs 3 years to show what they have.

Unfounded prediction? if we aren't backing these blokes to be guns then we wouldn't have considered them all top 5 selections in the first place, you don't draft a bloke at pick 4 hoping he'll be solid, you're looking for a star.

Unfounded prediction? if we aren't backing these blokes to be guns then we wouldn't have considered them all top 5 selections in the first place, you don't draft a bloke at pick 4 hoping he'll be solid, you're looking for a star.

leaving aside the fact you can't have an unfounded prediction.