Oliver Wines

[Guest Spirit of 39]

A girl I teach with attended the Annual Sporting Sections Dinner at the MCC last night. Her late father was receiving an award. Many MFC people were there including Chris Connolly and Mark Neeld. She asked Connolly about Ollie Wines, only to be told to ask Mark Neeld about him.

My colleague approached Neeld and after after a bit of friendly banter, asked him if we were going to take Wines at pick 4. She was told by Neeld that Wines is not rated in the best four players by us at the draft.

I have no reason to doubt my colleague at all. She was adamant that this is what Neeld said to her and she is now convinced we won't be taking Wines at pick 4. The question is, was Neeld playing ducks and drakes were her???

I'm still not convinced we won't take Wines. But that conversation certainly created some food for thought.

[Hannibal 5,814]

A girl I teach with attended the Annual Sporting Sections Dinner at the MCC last night. Her late father was receiving an award. Many MFC people were there including Chris Connolly and Mark Neeld. She asked Connolly about Ollie Wines, only to be told to ask Mark Neeld about him.

My colleague approached Neeld and after after a bit of friendly banter, asked him if we were going to take Wines at pick 4. She was told by Neeld that Wines is not rated in the best four players by us at the draft.

I have no reason to doubt my colleague at all. She was adamant that this is what Neeld said to her and she is now convinced we won't be taking Wines at pick 4. The question is, was Neeld playing ducks and drakes were her???

I'm still not convinced we won't take Wines. But that conversation certainly created some food for thought.

It makes sense to me. As much as I like big bodied mids, and he's clearly the inside mid outside of Viney, he doesn't appear to me to have the class one usually associates with a top 5 pick.

As I said in a post yesterday, everyone is convinced we'll take Wines, but I don't know whether it's industry group-think, Melbourne have leaked info, or people are putting two and two together because of the Viney connection. Drafts often pan out differently.

*Waits for a [censored] to bring up Morton*

Edited November 15, 2012 by Ben-Hur

[DemonWA 3,936]

interesting. Wonder if Hell's gates has heard anything of late?

[Jordie_tackles 354]

It makes sense to me. As much as I like big bodied mids, and he's clearly the inside mid outside of Viney, he doesn't appear to me to have the class one usually associates with a top 5 pick.

As I said in a post yesterday, everyone is convinced we'll take Viney, but I don't know whether it's industry group-think, Melbourne have leaked info, or people are putting two and two together because of the Viney connection. Drafts often pan out differently.

*Waits for a [censored] to bring up Morton*

Im pretty sure we ware taking Viney BH.....you meaning Wines yeah

[Guest NoMoreMrNiceGuy]

My colleague approached Neeld and after after a bit of friendly banter, asked him if we were going to take Wines at pick 4. She was told by Neeld that Wines is not rated in the best four players by us at the draft.

Forgive my cynicism but I just can't see Neeld being that candid to a stranger on the eve of the draft.

[olisik 4,060]

Maybe part of Hogan deal was to let Toumpas slip to 4

[Guest Spirit of 39]

Forgive my cynicism but I just can't see Neeld being that candid to a stranger on the eve of the draft.

Very understandable. That's why I'm not convinced he wasn't playing with her. We'll find out this time next week I suppose.

[Axis of Bob 11,876]

With pick 4, and then nothing until 49, what we do makes no difference. We only have 4 players to rank and we'll take the best of those that are available.

We don't really have any reason to be secretive. But all comments should be taken with a grain or 12 of salt.

[stinga81 210]

I found it interesting that CC handballed the question to MN. Maybe he's learning his lesson there.

FWIW, I reckon Neeld's foxing and we'll take Wines.

[deeko 952]

Wines' outside work is average-good. His skills are nothing special, his pace is average, but he does hit the goals when he get a chance. I won't be disappointed if we take him, as he'll be a good midfielder for us and definitely has the drive to make sure he gets the best out of himself. I just worry about our outside mids.

Of the ones you've listed there, Blease will make it over time once his tank is big enough, Bail will likely be delisted in the next few years, Davey is cooked, Strauss is more a half back flanker and even there is struggling to get a game, and Watts will play down back or head back forward. So of that list there is only one who I'd say is going to be playing that role long term.

Byrnes will play forward pocket for a year or two. Rodan will be a rounded midfielder for a year or two, Tynan is a defender, and Taggert I hope comes on as he seems like he could be valuable in the midfield.

You can see from our list though we desperately need outside class more than inside grunt.

Great profile pic by the way LT, love it!

As for your comments on Wines, his outside work is a lot better than average/good. Have seen this first hand with Echuca and a couple Pioneers games. If your referring to his highlights packages on different AFL channels then you will only see a lot of clearing handpasses and thats about it. That is definitely his forte and he has been great at that feeding it out role. But have faith, when he receives the ball from another his execution is of a very high standard so I don't think people should worry about this.

The link I like about Ollie is that he gets the ball again and again and again. He genuinely hunts it. I don't care if his kicking efficiently is 5% lower than another player picked after him as he will get the ball 10 more times a game. I watched the Q/B replay a few days ago on foxtel and of Dane Swans 3,456,015 disposals that game some were comical they were that dirty but he just keeps getting the pill. (please dont take this comment as if I am comparing Wines to Swans as a player like all those ridiculous Jobe Watson comparisons)

Fair call on your comments on the players I listed, but I am not sure how many outside mids are required in a team. Other people noted the minimal amount playing for the hawks and swans which I really agree with as I don't believe you need one outside player on each line. If you have that genuine quarterback (Watts) and a dashing Blease we will be fine in that department IMO.

Also, its a lot easier to develop an outside/spreading game to a true inside mid who wants there own ball. As anybody can run to space when required. It's a lot more difficult to teach a player who has played outside there whole career to start winning there own ball, hence someone like Cale being moved on.

I do agree we need more class but not necessarily on the outside. If we start winning a majority of the stoppages and becoming more efficient at these (removing hospital handballs/not panicing) you will find our outside skills will improve across the list as I can promise you every player on our list can hit targets when not pressured. We just have to win those stoppages and hit our players in space then watch the good times role!!

[GrandOld 367]

If we don't select Wines at 4 I will sh!t a gold Sherrin. Lock him in at 4!!!!!

[Theo 276]

If we don't select Wines at 4 I will sh!t a gold Sherrin. Lock him in at 4!!!!!

Finey had a draft special on SEN tonight with the draft experts Brett Anderson (Inside Football), Nigel Carmody and Mick Ablett. They believe that GWS is not sold on Toumpas and may go for Whitfield and then some positional players such as Plowman and Menzel to compliment the plethera of mids they already have. They think MFC will take Wines no matter what and the Bulldogs could end up the winners with Toumpas and O'Rourke.

[jnrmac 20,225]

Maybe part of Hogan deal was to let Toumpas slip to 4

That would be a nifty bit of negotiating.....

As for Neeld commenting to a stranger. When you have the first pick after GWS it kinda doesn't matter if people know who we are going to take.

[deeko 952]

Was meant to mention before in my post but forgot, a bloke I play cricket with did a tour of the Collingwood rooms a couple days ago with a few other boys. He said he wandered into a room with Collingwoods idea of the draft order on a large white board.

They believe we will get Toumpas with 4 and Wines will go at pick 7.

Not sure if anyone is interested or not but thats where the pies rate him.

[Canplay 635]

I think if Toumpas is available at 4, surely the Dees would take him. As much as I like the thought of Viney and Wines smashing heads - Toumpas adds a different mix (outside class) to the midfield mix. I would also have a question mark over Wines kicking.

[dee-luded 2,959]

If we don't select Wines at 4 I will sh!t a gold Sherrin. Lock him in at 4!!!!!

something alike this >

Edited November 15, 2012 by dee-luded

[Hannibal 5,814]

If Toumpas is available at 4 it's a no brainer.

The club couldn't be that stupid.

[monoccular 17,629]

I don't think you can ever have enough players who want to win there own pill. I believe we had one (Jones) for the last season who was continually desperate for it. Wines will compliment him well. From one game I watched this year he also did some good things on the outside so please people, don't think of him as simply a ball extracting machine who is average everywhere else.

He and Viney will be great. The problem is that there excellent ability inside the packs takes the gloss off there great work outside. Which as said, was great and will be going forward.

As for outside mids / more receiver like players, Blease, Bail, Davey, Strauss and Watts will be around. Along with the additions this year of Byrnes, Rodan, Tynan and my main man Taggert (get around him!!) will assist.

Well, that, the glass is overflowing, is certainly a refreshing change from the glass half empty talk that we hear so much of here. Of course some will worry about the overflow staining the table cloth, but as I have mentioned before there will also be some who complain about our winning margin in our successive premiership wins! No pleasing some folk.

[Guest José Mourinho]

I'd given up on the thought of Toumpas, as he is a class above Wines, but I'd say clearly top 3.

Last night on SEN they discussed the draft & Mick Ablett (shifter's protege) said GWS is very likely to overlook Toumpas and select Whitfield, Plowman and Menzel, leaving Toumpas for us if we don't stick with Wines.

I really can't see how we could choose Wines over Toumpas.

Romanticism aside, it's the pertinent decision.

[Guest Spirit of 39]

I'd given up on the thought of Toumpas, as he is a class above Wines, but I'd say clearly top 3.

Last night on SEN they discussed the draft & Mick Ablett (shifter's protege) said GWS is very likely to overlook Toumpas and select Whitfield, Plowman and Menzel, leaving Toumpas for us if we don't stick with Wines.

I really can't see how we could choose Wines over Toumpas.

Romanticism aside, it's the pertinent decision.

Agreed. Toumpas falling to us at pick 4 would be the best that we could possibly hope for.

[warren dean 193]

I'd given up on the thought of Toumpas, as he is a class above Wines, but I'd say clearly top 3.

Last night on SEN they discussed the draft & Mick Ablett (shifter's protege) said GWS is very likely to overlook Toumpas and select Whitfield, Plowman and Menzel, leaving Toumpas for us if we don't stick with Wines.

I really can't see how we could choose Wines over Toumpas.

Romanticism aside, it's the pertinent decision.

Agreed we should take Toumpas ahead of Wines if he is available to us, but what I want to know is why he would be available to us? In my opinion he is clearly the second best prospect in the draft (and not far behind Whitfield by the way) so why wouldn't GWS want him? Is his hip injury worse than first thought? Anyone heard anything about that?

[PaulRB 6,432]

I'd thought Whitfield and Toumpass were similar types of players and GWS may simply want to ensure diversity of the types of player they have. Similar reasoning to why Wines may not be ideal for us, i.e. he's of a similar type to Viney.

[Moonshadow 17,678]

Agreed we should take Toumpas ahead of Wines if he is available to us, but what I want to know is why he would be available to us? In my opinion he is clearly the second best prospect in the draft (and not far behind Whitfield by the way) so why wouldn't GWS want him? Is his hip injury worse than first thought? Anyone heard anything about that?

I think GWS have an abundance of really good midfield talent, WD. Sure they'd like more, but my guess is that they have a greater need for a quality big ruckman and perhaps a strong, goal kicking fwd in the mould of Steve Johnson. That's why they may take Whitfield (too good to pass up), Grundy and Menzel.

I'm with you in that if Toumpas is available, pick him up and carry him straight to the club rooms.

[Demon3 2,541]

Toumpas is everything we need.. class,poise, skills, outside run and carry and pace..

Wines is everything that we have.. tough, inside,mid pace, ball gathering ability..

Should be simple really..

[olisik 4,060]

Wonder who BP would take at pick #4 this year if he was still at the helm.