Tonatopia, Hardnut and a couple of others have said its not the players it the lack of development or the coach.

Hmm... I'm not convinced we have drafted all that badly. Cue the cliches like 'too early to tell about x and you can't judge after so much early injury distruption to y.

I do think though that there have been a couple problems (or tendencies) that seemed to creep into the decision-making.

1) Trying to be too clever. Not taking the 'obvious choice' in favour of making the attempt at plucking out a surprise. The drafting equivalent of going for the high mark deep in defence, instead of the spoil.

2) Too much thinking about 'nice' players who would make for pleasant conversation over a middle-class dinner party where everyone is comparing their children. Nice is nice, but it is not the same as leadership or determination, or even behavioural discipline, and I think we may have looked too hard at the wrong character features.

3) A whole mess of sentimentality. The classic being the absurd clinging on to Newton, matched with the ruthless despatch of McDonald. You could say that the 'retirement' was a ruthless act carried out with unmanaged and decidely not ruthless emotions, and the mix-up left everyone a bit frayed at the edges.

On the other hand... Neither Gysberts nor Cook (as examples brought up on this thread) were irrational decisions.

Gysberts was a highly rated midfielder believed to have the poise in a pack to complement the grunt of Jones and Moloney. In fact, on gysberts profile at the time, if you dripped him into this draft a lot of us would be saying 'Yes! That guy is what we are looking for'. Maybe he still can be, it's not as if he has had a chance to show his value yet.

Cook was taken as a true key tall forward option. Anyone going to argue with that need? And, in needs comparison with Darling, we already had many players marked as prospects for the 'third forward' role Darling was expected to fill - Petterd, Green, Sylvia, Bate, Dunn, Morton, and Jurrah. If even two of those had come through as reliable options/rotations up forward by now, would we really care about missing Darling?

3) A whole mess of sentimentality. The classic being the absurd clinging on to Newton, matched with the ruthless despatch of McDonald. You could say that the 'retirement' was a ruthless act carried out with unmanaged and decidely not ruthless emotions, and the mix-up left everyone a bit frayed at the edges.

Why was it absurd? We had a lack of key forwards. And that's why Cook was drafted a couple of years later Newts last contract was for base $ for 2 years. We moved him to the rookie list for the final year and when Jamar, Gawn and Spencer were all down in 2010 and he was called up and played a couple of games. He did not succeed at AFL level. So what? i dont see what it has to do with the Junior decision unless you thought that Junior could play forward ruck. Newton was the least of the problems.

Tonatopia, Hardnut and a couple of others have said its not the players it the lack of development or the coach.

I thought I must've missed it.

Have begun to completely skip their posts.

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* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

So when this lot fail have you got any contingency plans? I'm hoping to get a gig elsewhere, before they realise I haven't got a clue.

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"But with the large combo we get a free 1.25 litre bottle of Coke."

Caption the photo competition ....

* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

and then the Wolf said " I'll huff and puff and blowwwwwwwwwww your house down"......"Not by the hair on my chinny chin chin " said the pigs......

I firmly believe the biggest influence in our "poor drafting record" has been our inability to develop those we have drafted.

... coupled with the odd serious injury or two. Perhaps if Gysberts could actually get a couple of pre-seasons into him, and put together a decent run of games, he might at least have a chance of fulfilling his potential, whatever it is.

As for the rest of the thread ... just lucky we didn't draft Dane Swan, what were they thinking!!! Year after year of spudness.

Hmm... I'm not convinced we have drafted all that badly. Cue the cliches like 'too early to tell about x and you can't judge after so much early injury distruption to y.

.. Neither Gysberts nor Cook (as examples brought up on this thread) were irrational decisions.

Much too sensible ...

Q. Well if it's not our drafting then what have we been doing wrong; why have we been down the bottom of the ladder for so long?

A. Because our players are simply not up to it

Q. If our drafting has been good then which of our players over the last 5 or 6 years are a graders?

Q. I don't think we've got any.

Q. if our drafting has been ok why are we going to offload up to ten players at the end of the year, how did we manage to get so many ordinary players on the list?

A. ?

One thing that we haven't focussed heavily on with our draftees is power. Not just strong, but powerful runners.

Who are the players that have come on well under Neeld? Look at our best midfielder - Jones. He's a power runner. Look at those who are under question: Cook, Gysberts, Rivers, Moloney, Dunn ..... only Bate and Davis (both of whom have other issues) can power run and are under question. The others are plodders who rely on their footy nous, rather than athleticism.

Our only two national draft picks on kids in the last draft were on power runners, especially Taggert. Both are good athletes.

When I look at the players we will look at drafting, I'd be looking for midfielders that are power runners. In the modern style of game, the game moves so quickly that you need power, rather than being a roaming accumulator. We picked up on this later than others.

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* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

Theres wally!

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* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

BP;; FFFF-RRR-AAANN-KK-LII-NN..

DB;; I think u have the wrong years list barry..

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BP: Yeah, but see Bails, if we pick HIM he'll take longer to develop but still be a gun, so we can be at the bottom a little bit longer and get MORE early draft picks to build a list of super talented kids!

DB: Do it.

*Sadly, this was not intended to be funny ^^^

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Bails: Oh you beauty ... Darling! ... Darling! Do it Baz.

BP: Nah, nah. This Cook bloke goes alright mate. Skinnier than a catwalk model and about as aggressive as a newborn lamb, but gee he moves nicely.

Bails: Baz, it'll be five years before he fills out.

BP: By my count that's an extra five years in the job, mate.

Bails: Do it, Baz. Do it.

On the other hand... Neither Gysberts nor Cook (as examples brought up on this thread) were irrational decisions.

Gysberts was a highly rated midfielder believed to have the poise in a pack to complement the grunt of Jones and Moloney. In fact, on gysberts profile at the time, if you dripped him into this draft a lot of us would be saying 'Yes! That guy is what we are looking for'. Maybe he still can be, it's not as if he has had a chance to show his value yet.

Cook was taken as a true key tall forward option. Anyone going to argue with that need? And, in needs comparison with Darling, we already had many players marked as prospects for the 'third forward' role Darling was expected to fill - Petterd, Green, Sylvia, Bate, Dunn, Morton, and Jurrah. If even two of those had come through as reliable options/rotations up forward by now, would we really care about missing Darling?

Really good points. If Jurrah was fit, Petterd and Syliva delivered on talent and Dunn and Bate were up to it then Darling would have been a wasted pick.

Gysberts has had a bad year with injuries and deserves more time.

Cook looks like a waste. Struggling in the VFL.

A little off topic but does this not make the argument for a stand alone reserves team? When I was playing TAC cup back in the day the AFL reserves comp used under 18's kids to fill up the side and get a look at them against men. That's why I like Viney playing against big bodies now. I think the kids coming from WA and SA have this advantage too. I think Cook would have been sorted out a bit more.

Blease looks as though he is finally getting some of the required level of fitness and defensive skills (altho didn't see weekend game). With well documented injuries he has taken time.

Gys is in pretty much the same boat I reckon. Has skills and this wonderful capacity that doesn't exist in many of our other players - ability to win his own ball often. But has carried a lot of injury and doesn't have an AFL body. I have high hopes for both and wouldn't call either of them a wasted pick at this point.

Cook I am on the fence. I have seen him play and think he has the smarts and skills. Clearly doesn't have an AFL body yet. SO why play him?? Why not stick him in the gym and say put on 10kg of muscle. Some players can't put on weight when the aerobic training starts so might as well send him to the gym.

If Jurrah was fit, Petterd and Syliva delivered on talent and Dunn and Bate were up to it then Darling would have been a wasted pick.

I doubt it.

Some of screwiest logic I have read on Dland for some time. 5 big IFs and a conclusion that is mutually exclusive of the IFs.

I doubt it. Some of screwiest logic I have read on Dland for some time. 5 big IFs and a conclusion that is mutually exclusive of the IFs.

Hindsight is 20/20. Jurrah and Petterd looked like different players at the end of 2010. All drafting is is a series of 'if's' anyways. If Darling came to Melbourne would he be the player he is now? Based on the reality of the other 'if's' you'd have to say no he wouldn't be.

Based on the same logic should we just take the best kid this year even if said kid is a light weight outside type? I think we'd have a mutiny on our hands.

Drafting hasn't been great, but you just know that many of these players who are seemingly draft blunders would be performing alot better were they at another club.

Our development has been the major issue, which is linked to the culture of the club...turn turn turn.

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Gee Barry, do you think that Powerade will turn my [censored] red.

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Jeez Schwabby's p1ssing me off, Baz.

...

Cook looks like a waste. Struggling in the VFL.

A little off topic but does this not make the argument for a stand alone reserves team? When I was playing TAC cup back in the day the AFL reserves comp used under 18's kids to fill up the side and get a look at them against men. That's why I like Viney playing against big bodies now. I think the kids coming from WA and SA have this advantage too. I think Cook would have been sorted out a bit more.

Funnily enough, pre-draft Cook played a few VFL matches against men as the 23rd man, and reportedly acquitted himself quite well.

Caption the photo competition ....

* Winner gets to pick our next draftees names out of a hat on draft day. Don't worry you will do a better job than this man.

This Sudoku sh!t is harder than drafting!