- A draft system which ritually questions the integrity of coaches and officials

- Grossly inconsistent tribunal decisions

- Flawed video-referral system for goal line decisions

- Uneven/unfair fixturing

- Worrisome injury tolls for clubs

- Loss of hope for supporters of struggling clubs, dead rubbers and meaningless games

- Heavy-handed, dictatorial management from the top

- Embarrassing results so far in the GCS and GWS projects, with years of thrashings to come

= A product increasingly on the nose. This is the real story of the times.

http://www.theage.co...0801-23fm8.html

Yep. There is plenty of work to be done by the AFL. But as long as the dollars are flowing I don't think they care. It should be an 18 round competition to save injuries as much as they can and it would put an end to miserable seasons such as ours and the bulldogs but that would be mean less cash flow so it's not going to happen.

"I think we've underestimated the amount of pain" oh really ?Does the term hubris mean anything to you clowns?No ? I thought not. How about ivory tower? Still confused? geezuz you guys are really dumb arnt you? Its just a game and if you didnt grow up with it the chances are it wont become the favourite,must watch, game in your life. Ever wondered why the Irish amateurs can beat the Aussie pros?...........because its just a game, not the market leader in sporting endeavour. ps Demetrious salary doesnt mean the game is special either.

You didn't mention the despicable stadium deals that entrench clubs into the wealthy or pauper category, Geelong get 20000 to Skilled stadium and they make $500k. We get that to the MCG and write a cheque out to the AFL.

West Coast and Collingwood spend $300k A WEEK more than the Demons. That is a recipe for disaster.

And what about the fact that the AFL can't force Collingwood or Ess for that matter to wear an away strip?? (I don't count Ess's grey jumper as an away strip)

The grumbles are growing louder by the day. The AFL is sick.

He forgot:

* The amount of journalists reporting on AFL far outweighs those reporting on Australian politics. More quantity = less quality.

* The journalists ready & willing to insert themselves into the headlines by editorializing news stories.

* Journalists making news stories based on what they or other journalists say.

* Journalists blatantly taking [censored] out of context.

* Journalists reporting on the gossip of the game & not what happens on the field. Caro being AFL-drip fed the North to the Gold Coast story in 07 & then her blatant anti-Brayshaw agenda since is a fine illustration of this.

* The amount of bias being inserted into the AFL commentariat - I don't even know who you are Andy Maher so I couldn't care less that you're a passionate Blue. Whatever happened to impartiality?

I could go on, but it seems that Ro-Ro (hes a Bombers fan don't ya know?) has missed giving the AFL a whack for handing out so many media passes to nuffies who have NFI.

"I think we've underestimated the amount of pain" oh really ?Does the term hubris mean anything to you clowns?No ? I thought not. How about ivory tower? Still confused? geezuz you guys are really dumb arnt you? Its just a game and if you didnt grow up with it the chances are it wont become the favourite,must watch, game in your life. Ever wondered why the Irish amateurs can beat the Aussie pros?...........because its just a game, not the market leader in sporting endeavour. ps Demetrious salary doesnt mean the game is special either.

????????????????????!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

You didn't mention the despicable stadium deals that entrench clubs into the wealthy or pauper category, Geelong get 20000 to Skilled stadium and they make $500k. We get that to the MCG and write a cheque out to the AFL.

West Coast and Collingwood spend $300k A WEEK more than the Demons. That is a recipe for disaster.

And what about the fact that the AFL can't force Collingwood or Ess for that matter to wear an away strip?? (I don't count Ess's grey jumper as an away strip)

The grumbles are growing louder by the day. The AFL is sick.

I don't think it is quite as sick as you suggest jnr.

It is financially viable

However the powerful do rule but I am not sure that anything has changed in my 50+ years of following the AFL.

My biggest complaint about the AFL is that there are too many teams.

IMO

- the talent pool is stretched to far there are not enough good players to go round eg.the MFC.

- There are always going to be 3 - 4 teams who will be easy beats that will have their seasons over in May.

- having more than 14 teams is IMO unworkable

I don't think it is quite as sick as you suggest jnr.

It is financially viable

However the powerful do rule but I am not sure that anything has changed in my 50+ years of following the AFL.

My biggest complaint about the AFL is that there are too many teams.

IMO

- the talent pool is stretched to far there are not enough good players to go round eg.the MFC.

- There are always going to be 3 - 4 teams who will be easy beats that will have their seasons over in May.

- having more than 14 teams is IMO unworkable

Correct.

The AFL might have got some things wrong but they've got plenty right. It's still the best game in the world and I believe the major mistake made in the GCS and GWS experiment is that they didn't go into those markets sooner. It's hard to believe that in the mid-1980s a number of teams were apparently on their last legs. Then again in the 1990s mergers were on the cards. That we still have the number of teams we have in Victoria is an outstanding result.

Sure, improvements are still necessary. But overall I still love the game (although not necessarily the way the Demons play right now) and the powers that be deserve credit.

The AFL might have got some things wrong but they've got plenty right. It's still the best game in the world and I believe the major mistake made in the GCS and GWS experiment is that they didn't go into those markets sooner. It's hard to believe that in the mid-1980s a number of teams were apparently on their last legs. Then again in the 1990s mergers were on the cards. That we still have the number of teams we have in Victoria is an outstanding result.

Sure, improvements are still necessary. But overall I still love the game (although not necessarily the way the Demons play right now) and the powers that be deserve credit.

Come off it, honestly. This whole best game in the world business is so single minded, and you may say "well that's just my opinion" but so many people count it as fact. It's like Americans saying that the MLB finals are the "World Series" and then the USA team get pumped by Columbia or something.

I'm really frustrated by this whole mentality of they've done a good job. To make money? yes, but at the expense of the integrity of the game. There are countless issues within the AFL that are so corrupt and contrived it has really affected the pubic perception of the game, or well at least for me and people i talk to about it. The whole game is controlled by the media and a small group of loud fans with a knee jerk reaction to one off relatively small events. Just because Mark robinson writes an article saying he doesn't like sling tackles doesn't mean you change the rules.

I love this whole, "well they are making money hand over fist and clubs are now secure" argument. They're financially secure because they robbing you.

http://www.afl.com.au/news/newsarticle/tabid/208/newsid/143327/default.aspx

Hardwick is right on the money here. The AFL need to forget the past because they can't possibly start handing

out sanctions to 10 different clubs over X amount of years. And how would the sanctions work you tanked in 5 games

so you lose this but this team only tanked in 3 so they lose less, doesn't work. They should bring in the lottery system

for the draft after this one and that would stop everything. Break it down into sections 18th-16th is raffled, 15th-13th,

12th-10th and so forth.

http://www.afl.com.a...27/default.aspx

Hardwick is right on the money here. The AFL need to forget the past because they can't possibly start handing

out sanctions to 10 different clubs over X amount of years. And how would the sanctions work you tanked in 5 games

so you lose this but this team only tanked in 3 so they lose less, doesn't work. They should bring in the lottery system

for the draft after this one and that would stop everything. Break it down into sections 18th-16th is raffled, 15th-13th,

12th-10th and so forth.

The problem with the raffle system is you might get a 200+cm ruckman when you're desperately looking for a midfielder.

Come off it, honestly. This whole best game in the world business is so single minded, and you may say "well that's just my opinion" but so many people count it as fact. It's like Americans saying that the MLB finals are the "World Series" and then the USA team get pumped by Columbia or something.

I'm really frustrated by this whole mentality of they've done a good job. To make money? yes, but at the expense of the integrity of the game. There are countless issues within the AFL that are so corrupt and contrived it has really affected the pubic perception of the game, or well at least for me and people i talk to about it. The whole game is controlled by the media and a small group of loud fans with a knee jerk reaction to one off relatively small events. Just because Mark robinson writes an article saying he doesn't like sling tackles doesn't mean you change the rules.

I love this whole, "well they are making money hand over fist and clubs are now secure" argument. They're financially secure because they robbing you.

I didn't think I needed to say it was my opinion because I thought that was implied.

And I agree with you about Mark Robinson. My aversion to anything he writes is only exceeded by my aversion to anything he says.

I don't think it is quite as sick as you suggest jnr.

It is financially viable

However the powerful do rule but I am not sure that anything has changed in my 50+ years of following the AFL.

My biggest complaint about the AFL is that there are too many teams.

IMO

- the talent pool is stretched to far there are not enough good players to go round eg.the MFC.

- There are always going to be 3 - 4 teams who will be easy beats that will have their seasons over in May.

- having more than 14 teams is IMO unworkable

I don't believe that is right. The comp might be financially viable on a superficial level but around 10 clubs are financially struggling/unprofitable. Certainly having 10 teams in one town makes it difficult to get clear air, friday night TV, sponsorship etc but a comp based on handouts from an omnipotent body is anything but healthy.

A draft and salary cap can only go so far. $15m a year on footy department spending is the gap between top and bottom. It has to be addressed as the discrepancy in some ways makes the salary cap and draft meaningless. Carlton seem to always get the players they want as do the pies. Albeit it may be on the trade market rather than the draft. No one was ever really going to get Luke Ball but the Pies.

West Coast make zillions out of stadium advertising, corporate boxes etc. The Dees make nothing at the MCG because it goes to the MCC.

The money from broadcast right might be there now but a lot is being sucked out by the struggling clubs and the development clubs at an alarming rate.

Come off it, honestly. This whole best game in the world business is so single minded, and you may say "well that's just my opinion" but so many people count it as fact. It's like Americans saying that the MLB finals are the "World Series" and then the USA team get pumped by Columbia or something.

I'm really frustrated by this whole mentality of they've done a good job. To make money? yes, but at the expense of the integrity of the game. There are countless issues within the AFL that are so corrupt and contrived it has really affected the pubic perception of the game, or well at least for me and people i talk to about it. The whole game is controlled by the media and a small group of loud fans with a knee jerk reaction to one off relatively small events. Just because Mark robinson writes an article saying he doesn't like sling tackles doesn't mean you change the rules.

I love this whole, "well they are making money hand over fist and clubs are now secure" argument. They're financially secure because they robbing you.

There should be a like x 1 million button for posts like these.

The problem with the raffle system is you might get a 200+cm ruckman when you're desperately looking for a midfielder.

I don't know if you fully understand it. They will raffle the number pick you get for example if you finished 16th you could still get

pick 1 in the draft. It doesn't mean you have to take a certain player.

lol

My bad humour.

http://www.afl.com.a...27/default.aspx

Hardwick is right on the money here. The AFL need to forget the past because they can't possibly start handing

out sanctions to 10 different clubs over X amount of years. And how would the sanctions work you tanked in 5 games

so you lose this but this team only tanked in 3 so they lose less, doesn't work. They should bring in the lottery system

for the draft after this one and that would stop everything. Break it down into sections 18th-16th is raffled, 15th-13th,

12th-10th and so forth.

Teams who are 15th will tank to get in the lower raffle group and for a shot at the #1 draft pick.

Will still be existant

lol

My bad humour.

<sarcasm>Sarcasm font required</sarcasm>

Teams who are 15th will tank to get in the lower raffle group and for a shot at the #1 draft pick.

Will still be existant

Teams who are 15th will tank to get in the lower raffle group and for a shot at the #1 draft pick.

Will still be existant

Well then perhaps go bottom 9 and top 9. Teams that are on the fringe of playing finals aren't

going to tank anyway. I would say Yes to something like this as it would stop things like tanking from

happening. Teams are still going to finish players seasons early and try young players but at

least it will take away from the idea that they are purposely tanking.

And in the NBA system the bottom ranked side still has the best chance of winning the top pick

as they have a higher number of 'chances' when drawing the draft positions. But the ability for sides

who don't finish last to still get a higher pick would mean theres no real point in actual tanking.

Teams who are 15th will tank to get in the lower raffle group and for a shot at the #1 draft pick.

Will still be existant

In that situation yes, as 15th season is pretty much over anyway, which is why it should be 14th to 18th raffling the first 4 and the rest in order. 13, 12, 11, 10 etc. For the large majority of any season 13th spot will be in the hunt for finals deep into the season, which makes tanking quite unlikely, any team with a chance of finals won't dream of it, also there is usually such a gulf between 13th and 14th that by the time the team coming 13th realises they aren't making finals tanking won't get them anywhere anyway. I do think its important under this system to reintroduce the priority pick, any team in the bottom 3 teams for three years should get one, no club in its right mind is going to try to be in the bottom three for three years, and if they do, they deserve it.

Amazingly i actually thought the Hun's Mark Steven's suggestion in today's paper of averaging ladder position over the season a really good idea

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/afl/more-news/its-high-time-to-roll-the-tanks/story-e6frf9jf-1226440727157

Amazingly i actually thought the Hun's Mark Steven's suggestion in today's paper of averaging ladder position over the season a really good idea

http://www.heraldsun...f-1226440727157

Yeah that's a pretty decent idea as well. I think either way you go it's going to even it up more. I think

I like the lottery because it adds a bit of excitement to who goes where haha.

I don't think it is quite as sick as you suggest jnr.

It is financially viable

However the powerful do rule but I am not sure that anything has changed in my 50+ years of following the AFL.

My biggest complaint about the AFL is that there are too many teams.

IMO

- the talent pool is stretched to far there are not enough good players to go round eg.the MFC.

- There are always going to be 3 - 4 teams who will be easy beats that will have their seasons over in May.

- having more than 14 teams is IMO unworkable

Be VERY VERY careful what you wish for.

Should average the numbers of wins over 3 years, not ladder positions