On 13/07/2012 at 12:03, old dee said:

JR I am not sure BM will still be playing in 2017

Come on, OD.....deep down you're an optimist, I know.

Next year, my friend, next year......

  On 13/07/2012 at 12:25, jumbo returns said:

Come on, OD.....deep down you're an optimist, I know.

Next year, my friend, next year......

Oh JR how often have we heard that!

Ok I will get real.

I don't think he will still be playing in 2015

I hope we get rid of Moloney, he has had an ordinary year, even McKenzie has surpassed him!

Moloney is not only a one dimensional, limited midfielder, but he is also just a midfielder and cant really play elsewhere,

at least Grimes, Tapscott can play different roles, also McKenzie plays his role as a tagger, Jones an extractor and dominator,

Moloney is just a limited player and without his size, he adds next to nothing.

One would think Viney and possibly another midfielder will slot straight into our midfield next year and offer more than Moloney has this year.

  On 12/07/2012 at 22:07, Tall Defence said:

Queens Birthday 2010 he had a pretty brilliant game I thought. 38 touches if I'm not mistaken.

...which was nearly 50 rounds ago.

  On 13/07/2012 at 12:31, KingDingAling said:

I hope we get rid of Moloney, he has had an ordinary year, even McKenzie has surpassed him!

Moloney is not only a one dimensional, limited midfielder, but he is also just a midfielder and cant really play elsewhere,

at least Grimes, Tapscott can play different roles, also McKenzie plays his role as a tagger, Jones an extractor and dominator,

Moloney is just a limited player and without his size, he adds next to nothing.

]

Just a midfielder???

Do you know anything about footy?

It's commonly accepted that the midfield is where matches are won.

All the names you mentioned, except for Jones, are only battlers based upon this year's effort. Sad but true. And you could add a number of others to that list, such as Trengove, Davey, Bail, Green and Petterd. Based upon this year, that is.

Moloney is struggling for form, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

  On 12/07/2012 at 10:55, Macca said:

It's hard to remember any of our players having 'Good' games in 'Big games' in the last 5 and a half years . It's often hard to come up with 4 or 5 'Pass marks' in a lot of our games against good opposition . That's the reality when the team gets smashed

I'd like to see a list of our players who have consistently done well in 'Big games' in the last 5 and a half years . Even a list of those who do well in 1 out of 3 games would be interesting . The 1st list would be empty and the 2nd list would contain less than a handful IMO .

As an example , let's look at our 13 losses last year . Did any of our players have 4 or 5 good games in these 13 losses? A good game should include winning your position and/or beating your opponent (but not always) .

It's easy to point the finger at one bloke but it's a team game and more than a few need to cop their fair share in a loss (especially a bad loss)

Watts usually beats his man...

I like Moloney, but I don't know if that means he should stay on next year. I can see the argument for keeping him (depth, protection for younger bodies) but if we had a better developed list I think he would be gone. He doesn't kick enough goals or create enough scoring opportunities for an "attacking" midfielder to damage the opposition, if he kicked more goals or created more scoring opportunities he would be safe.

  On 13/07/2012 at 12:21, Chook said:

In comparing Moloney's stats with Morton's, we see that Moloney averages more tackles and more inside fifties, but morton averages more kicks and more marks.

So it would seem that Moloney's better at the pressure side of the game and Morton is better at the run and spread side of the game. Since both of these aspects are very important, it looks like both players might be a little flawed. To me, it looks like maybe neither of them will be good enough to take us forward.

But while Moloney is unlikely to change, Morton very well could improve his contested game quite a bit as he matures. It remains to be seen what Morton may accomplish, but I feel like Moloney's game style is a little bit outdated, and that he contributes to our overwhelming "slowness" as a footy side.

How many BnF's and Brownlow votes does Morton have Chook?....

  On 13/07/2012 at 13:04, Moonshadow said:

]

Just a midfielder???

Do you know anything about footy?

It's commonly accepted that the midfield is where matches are won.

All the names you mentioned, except for Jones, are only battlers based upon this year's effort. Sad but true. And you could add a number of others to that list, such as Trengove, Davey, Bail, Green and Petterd. Based upon this year, that is.

Moloney is struggling for form, but let's not throw the baby out with the bath water.

Yes, just a mid fielder - unable to play other roles when he is down on form, which has been ALL year,

hence why he is now dropped and why he was our sub last week.

Moloney will expect to be well paid, wont be here for our next flag and has already been passed this

year by any player who has stepped foot in the midfield - regardless who it is, such is Moloneys form!

As for the 'I know nothing about football comment', its not appreciated and if you havent realised that I am

the most astute football judge on this site - bar none - then your really going to struggle going forward, much like Moloney.

All the best son and keep your chin up.

I think this thread has degenerated into people using it to slag off a great (albeit out of form) servant of our club, and should now be closed.

I'm ashamed to support the same team as some of you snipers on here who take joy in eating their own.

  On 13/07/2012 at 12:31, KingDingAling said:

I hope we get rid of Moloney, he has had an ordinary year, even McKenzie has surpassed him!

Moloney is not only a one dimensional, limited midfielder, but he is also just a midfielder and cant really play elsewhere,

at least Grimes, Tapscott can play different roles, also McKenzie plays his role as a tagger, Jones an extractor and dominator,

Moloney is just a limited player and without his size, he adds next to nothing.

One would think Viney and possibly another midfielder will slot straight into our midfield next year and offer more than Moloney has this year.

"Supporters" like you make me sick.

  On 13/07/2012 at 16:14, stuie said:

"Supporters" like you make me sick.

And I couldnt care less, I'm here to talk footy, not listen to you cry me a river.

Its not my fault that Neeld has came in and made Moloney pay attention to the defensive part

of his game - and now he can't buy a kick.

Its not my fault Neeld has came in and wants cleaner disposal going inside the 50

and now Brent isnt getting first use of Jamars taps and has to work harder for a kick!

  On 13/07/2012 at 15:08, stuie said:

How many BnF's and Brownlow votes does Morton have Chook?....

No BnFs, and 4 Brownlow votes all up, but I don't think that matters. The question is whether Moloney is going to be valuable for us in the future. Mark Neeld doesn't care about previous years, and therefore neither should we. Based on his performances this year, I say Moloney deserves to be dropped.

"Bashing" players is not on, but criticising them is, so I suggest you toughen up and look at the facts as they stand this year. Moloney should be playing better than he is, but I and many others believe that the way he plays footy means that he probably will never return to anywhere near best and fairest form.

I could see it after just Round One. Pretty much everyone can see it now. When will you see it?

  On 13/07/2012 at 14:01, Dr. Gonzo said:

I like Moloney, but I don't know if that means he should stay on next year. I can see the argument for keeping him (depth, protection for younger bodies) but if we had a better developed list I think he would be gone. He doesn't kick enough goals or create enough scoring opportunities for an "attacking" midfielder to damage the opposition, if he kicked more goals or created more scoring opportunities he would be safe.

Which is why I think he'll be offered only a one year contract at the end of year- as protection of sorts for the young draftees coming in- and if he has a good year next year then we can see where we're at.

The tricky thing is that GC/GWS may offer him more than that- so Moloney might find himself in a Bruce situation; back yourself and stay, or leave for greener pastures.

FWIW I think he will decide to stay. Whether that is the wise decision, only time will tell.

  On 13/07/2012 at 17:44, SloonieMcFloonieloone said:

Which is why I think he'll be offered only a one year contract at the end of year- as protection of sorts for the young draftees coming in- and if he has a good year next year then we can see where we're at.

The tricky thing is that GC/GWS may offer him more than that- so Moloney might find himself in a Bruce situation; back yourself and stay, or leave for greener pastures.

FWIW I think he will decide to stay. Whether that is the wise decision, only time will tell.

Guys, im hoping he stays and plays himself in to some form , whether reinventing his game or just getting back his form im not sure which , but i do think he is still a contributer going forward .

I have to say though, Neelds reaction yesterday in the press conference when asked if moloney was still seen as a required player was very interesting. I normally dont try and read in to too much but the normal delivery of Neelds answers was not there. he seemed very unconvinced and not very keen to make eye contact or continue with the questioning. Who knows what the FD is planning but watch the interview again. could be telling.

  On 13/07/2012 at 17:02, KingDingAling said:

And I couldnt care less, I'm here to talk footy, not listen to you cry me a river.

Its not my fault that Neeld has came in and made Moloney pay attention to the defensive part

of his game - and now he can't buy a kick.

Its not my fault Neeld has came in and wants cleaner disposal going inside the 50

and now Brent isnt getting first use of Jamars taps and has to work harder for a kick!

I hear what you're saying, but getting 'rid' of him isn't the answer.

He is being coached to play a more attacking role off HFF and needs time to work on that.

I agree that he's struggling with the defensive part of his game.

  On 13/07/2012 at 17:02, KingDingAling said:

And I couldnt care less, I'm here to talk footy, not listen to you cry me a river.

Its not my fault that Neeld has came in and made Moloney pay attention to the defensive part

of his game - and now he can't buy a kick.

Its not my fault Neeld has came in and wants cleaner disposal going inside the 50

and now Brent isnt getting first use of Jamars taps and has to work harder for a kick!

I don't think that's what Stuie's saying KingDingAling.

That Moloney is out of form, or no longer able to cut it with the new regime (which is clearly what we need), doesn't mean it's acceptable to brutalise the guy.

We're not Syria here. Moloney has been a great, loyal clubman for us for many, many years. That IMO is to be respected when comments are made about him.

  On 13/07/2012 at 15:55, KingDingAling said:

As for the 'I know nothing about football comment', its not appreciated and if you havent realised that I am

the most astute football judge on this site - bar none - then your really going to struggle going forward, much like Moloney.

All the best son and keep your chin up.

Didn't know I was your 'son', old man.

It's pretty hard to reason with someone who uses the justification above to prove their case.

If you argue with fools, you end up looking like one.

Over and out on this thread.

No doubt Brent Moloney would like nothing better than to continue to be the standard bearer for MFC. He's struggling with the new running requirements of the new regime and as Ben pointed out with the changes in the game's stoppage set-up. Clearly from Mark Neeld's comments he couldn't be working harder to address the issues he faces. I don't think you can read a direct line between a quote from his manager and what he wants - he's subsequently come out and said he wants to stay at MFC, his manager may have been talking out of turn. There's big changes happening and Moloney has earned at least the full cycle of 2012 to show he can adjust to them. Hopefully he can.

  On 13/07/2012 at 12:21, Chook said:

But while Moloney is unlikely to change, Morton very well could improve his contested game quite a bit as he matures. It remains to be seen what Morton may accomplish, but I feel like Moloney's game style is a little bit outdated, and that he contributes to our overwhelming "slowness" as a footy side.

Yeah. Give him another 70 games to work it out.

Brad Miller says hi.

  On 13/07/2012 at 17:36, Chook said:

Moloney should be playing better than he is, but I and many others believe that the way he plays footy means that he probably will never return to anywhere near best and fairest form.

I could see it after just Round One. Pretty much everyone can see it now. When will you see it?

What do you base this on , Chook ? About a dozen anonymous people on an internet forum ? You are possibly part of the vocal minority (on this thread) . IMO the silent majority probably can't be bothered arguing with people who might be described as being unnecessarily unfair on one of 'Our own' . I know a number of Melbourne supporters and none of them are ruling a line through Brent . Their opinion is that he's simply out of form.

We've got a whole bunch of players who are out of form but it seems it's easier to just blame Brent for our woes . We make excuse after excuse for many other players with such reasons as "The new coaching structure" or "Our fitness program" or he's "Playing a new role" etc etc etc . If there are these such 'Rules' then all players should be afforded the same excuses/reasons .

Excuses/reasons can't be selective . Some might think otherwise , but in the real world it doesn't work that way . Especially at a sporting club .

Just want to say he wasn't dropped totally on form. From what I heard he wasn't happy with losing last week and took it out on a powerade bottle and stormed off. Me personally i like the emotion.

  On 13/07/2012 at 17:02, KingDingAling said:

And I couldnt care less, I'm here to talk footy, not listen to you cry me a river.

Its not my fault that Neeld has came in and made Moloney pay attention to the defensive part

of his game - and now he can't buy a kick.

Its not my fault Neeld has came in and wants cleaner disposal going inside the 50

and now Brent isnt getting first use of Jamars taps and has to work harder for a kick!

Agree with Burgundy and would add that the point is players are allowed down years. It happens. Sometimes it's a sign of a career ending, sometimes form is regained.

I think, tough guy, you've been found to be a bit quick to judge is all.

  On 13/07/2012 at 15:08, stuie said:

How many BnF's and Brownlow votes does Morton have Chook?....

How many does Robbie Flower have stuie?

What's the relevance? He's also past it and we'd e stupid to stick him in the side.

Moloney is no different.

It's funny those who deride "supporters" for not showing unconditional support for a player severely lacking form, likely to never regain it. You could say that such unconditional support has led to us being a cellar-dweller for the last half decade.

Anyway.

It is patently clear there are 2 camps.

Those who think Moloney is suffering from poor form and is capable of turning it around.

AND

Those who think Moloney has limitations that will prevent him from ever again being an influential player.

To get to the bottom of it, you really need to analyse what Brent has been good at in the past that made him dominant at times.

And also what has happened to make him so ineffective this year so far.

So what was Brent good at and how?

- winning clearances from ruck taps, making good position with Jamar tapping the ball straight onto his chest most times

- barrelling through tackles in congestion with brute strength and pushing the ball forward

- getting the ball to his boot OR getting his hands free of a tackler and handballing to a nearby teammate

- general long kicking, can kick a long goal on the odd occasion

- is there anything else? Please feel free to add to this list

- seems to have a decent engine without being elite

- skills are passable without being anything special

What is he not great at?

- doesn't have a great burst of speed

- not particularly agile

- does not have great reading of the play, vision or decision-making -- see ball, get ball, give to first option or slam on boot

- doesn't find a lot of the football in general play outside of stoppages

- not versatile -- like Brock McLean, it looks as if he's good for a midfield position or not at all

- in spite of his bulk and strength, not a great tackler (due to lack of agility)

- defensive skills need a lot of work -- has had license in the past to mostly run hard one way

As BH has noted, the speed at which play is restarted has given Moloney less time to make position at stoppages, limiting his influence? How does he fix this? Become quicker? How?

The increased congestion this year means if he does find the footy, Moloney has to try to barge through more opponents and it has proved very difficult for him to get a clean possession even when he is first to the football.

In general play, you wouldn't say you are a man down, but his influence in the part of the game has never been great and we have no reason to think this will change.

As a result, I think the potential for Moloney to change his game is low, and for him to develop it to the stage of being really influential again is even lower.

At his age, with less focus on him in a better side, he may be able to be a valuable contributor, but I think the likelihood is low.

But I honestly and dispassionately think the best result for us is to get any return for him that we can.

I want what's best for the club, ignoring sentiment for a player who has had imo one good season.

Barracking for the club as a kid is meaningless to me, if they stand in the way of the club's success.

I'm open to constructive feedback & to discuss this like adults, if anyone is up for it.