DEAD WOOD

[Dr. Mubutu 763]

same list i came up with 2 years ago

You had Magner on the list to be gone 2 years ago?

Can I have a loan of your crystal ball? I need to know how much longer we have to put up with the tripe we've seen this season.

[Dannyz 2,551]

Bail will be fine. Elite runner, good spread, hard at it. Get his skills right, he'll be a good player.

[Red N Blue Society 165]

The Dead wood I would throw would be:

Joel Mcdonald=Terrible Skills & in & out the side all the time.Many better defenders in the side.

Morton=Pea Heart and doesnt get a game because he simply isnt up to it.Move him to Sydney wih his dud brother.

Cook=Not been around long but another who doesnt belong at AFL level.

Not Dead wood..... but tradeable would be Sylvia. He just wont deliver the goods we know is in him. Move him on.

[old55 22,777]

Wow. Seriously stupid posts on this thread. Enjoyable though. My favourite bit is where we trade our rubbish for draft picks....

You mean the 16th team's deadwood aren't attractive trade options for other clubs?

Threads like these do help identify deadwood.

[BIG JIM 508]

The Dead wood I would throw would be:

Joel Mcdonald=Terrible Skills & in & out the side all the time.Many better defenders in the side.

Morton=Pea Heart and doesnt get a game because he simply isnt up to it.Move him to Sydney wih his dud brother.

Cook=Not been around long but another who doesnt belong at AFL level.

Not Dead wood..... but tradeable would be Sylvia. He just wont deliver the goods we know is in him. Move him on.

Wow Cook you have to give the kid a go at the AFL first.

But i do share your frustration that we would use a pick 12 on a kid who would not even get a go for 2 or 3 years.

J. Darling would have 40 games for the MFC by now Barry you really left us in the SH%^

[Scotty 3]

Who is responsible for Melbournes football development? is it an individual position? or a group? if so;

How many people work in that area?

How long have they been there?

any info would be appreciated.

[Juicebox 628]

Who is responsible for Melbournes football development? is it an individual position? or a group? if so;

How many people work in that area?

How long have they been there?

any info would be appreciated.

Maybe the development staff are the Deadwood we need to part ways with...?

Bennell - one of very few players with decent skills, but seems frightened to get a pozzie

Bail - doesn't seem to be getting any better. Has had his injuries, but in his case, is that a good enough excuse?

Pettard - looked destined to become a genuine gun. Has at times looked brilliant and more and more often, looked redundant. May have some value at trade week.

I'd like to see Green, Dunn, Moloney, Davey and Sylvia stay, simply because we lack experience.

[Dr. Gonzo 23,699]

I'd like to see Green, Dunn, Moloney, Davey and Sylvia stay, simply because we lack experience.

That's the only thing saving Moloney I reckon. Davey is contracted and Green looks past it but could get another year. Dunn can go and Sylvia has a role.

[Scotty 3]

Juicebox thats my point, why do we continue to not not see the results expected out of these younger players.

Green will retire at seasons end, unless injury prevails

Davey would be on my short list despite a contract, unless he has some blinders all of a sudden (wishful thinking)

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,644]

Actually, I think we were worse during the Bailey years. During that time I couldn't discern a plan (I don't mean a game plan, I mean development strategy). Most of the young players, that is players who have been on the list 5 years or fewer should be kept to see what they can do once Misson gets them properly fit. I'm sure skills diminish with tiredness, not just during a game but over a season. Players who have been around for 5+ years should be closely scrutinised to see what value they add, For example, Davey may be essential for mentoring our indigenous brigade. And I'd be interested in the possibility of Green taking on a James McDonald/Luke Power/Chad Cornes role of assistant coaching while playing one more season. Even if he retires, I'd still be interested in retaining him as a kicking coach.

So, players such as Bate, Moloney, Dunn, MacDonald, Bartram, Petterd, Jamar, Sylvia, Green, Davey should all be looked at and decisions made. Of those, I'd keep Green (unless he wants to retire), Davey, Jamar, Sylvia and probably Bartram unless for any of them an 'over-the-odds' trade option opens up. And given we've already had two of those in recent years (Johnstone and McLean) I'd be surprised if we got that lucky again.

And we were certainly worse in the second half of the 1960s and the 1970s when the MFC didn't understand that the competition was becoming professional.

[jayceebee31 697]

same list i came up with 2 years ago

Crap as Magner only joined us this year.

[Mono 455]

...............And I'd be interested in the possibility of Green taking on a James McDonald/Luke Power/Chad Cornes role of assistant coaching while playing one more season. Even if he retires, I'd still be interested in retaining him as a kicking coach.

...............

I think you make a good point. Green may be past his best, but we can't afford to lose any more of our older players; depends if he's interested in a coaching career.

[Fitz Fitzpatrick 886]

Juicebox thats my point, why do we continue to not not see the results expected out of these younger players.

Green will retire at seasons end, unless injury prevails

Davey would be on my short list despite a contract, unless he has some blinders all of a sudden (wishful thinking)

Scotty, a very valid point you have made. too many 'hopefuls' have just not come on in development. perhaps we have not been looking at the right 'pile of deadwood'. Which support staff are perhaps responsible for our poor development? these need to go or we are a few months away from drafting MORE 'deadwood'..

[Red N Blue Society 165]

Wow Cook you have to give the kid a go at the AFL first.

But i do share your frustration that we would use a pick 12 on a kid who would not even get a go for 2 or 3 years.

J. Darling would have 40 games for the MFC by now Barry you really left us in the SH%^

Ahh...I was having a bad day...I actually meant Fitzpatrick..I think he's too slow for AFL eventhough he trys.

Dont know how I confused them..

[jnrmac 19,890]

Ahh...I was having a bad day...I actually meant Fitzpatrick..I think he's too slow for AFL eventhough he trys.

Dont know how I confused them..

Fitzpatrick too slow? OMG he was recruited as a fast leading fwd. Have you watched him?

[DemonWA 3,884]

Guys like Bail are the Dead wood on our list - I dont care how fit you might be, if you cant kick at a decent level, you will be 'dead wood' on any AFL list

I dont classify Bennell and Jetta as dead wood. They have traits that your run of the mill VFL player or draftee dont.

[daisycutter 29,310]

Ahh...I was having a bad day...I actually meant Fitzpatrick..I think he's too slow for AFL eventhough he trys.

Dont know how I confused them..

one thing fitzy is not is slow!

[Deemon 47]

Who is responsible for Melbournes football development? is it an individual position? or a group? if so;

How many people work in that area?

How long have they been there?

any info would be appreciated.

The recruitment department and the player development department used to be seperate from each other, so the recruiters wouldn't necessarily be listening to the development guys and vice versa. One of the first changes made by Mark Neeld (and probably Neil Craig) was to bring these departments together, with Todd Viney heading things up.

[DEELIGHTED 16]

Does the Russiian go on to vets list next year and davey?

I think greeny has done a bit of coaching with the tas u-18s over the years so def into the coaching game. I think it wise to keep him on for 1 more if he gets a kick for the rest of the year. Purely as insurance and I know i will get bottled over this but other than Jnr he has been one of the greatest servants of this club in recent times. Sometimes sheer brilliant. The next few week will tell us where hes at.

Col- i still love and think with some form and a no-nonsense coaching group he will thrive.

Bail, Ricky-Bobby, Bate lets see what we can get and Morton, I simply dont know.

Big Steph- hold on again for insurance

Cook- give him a crack but i like the way hes apparently developing

Dunn- def keep purely for the MO

[Outside fifty 967]

Ahh...I was having a bad day...I actually meant Fitzpatrick..I think he's too slow for AFL eventhough he trys.

Dont know how I confused them..

Still having a bad day. Fitzpatrick is seriously quick for a guy his size. I find it hilarious that people honestly think that all our problems will be solved by drafting 18 year olds and other clubs fringe players. At the end of the day we have to stop looking for the quick fix and start developing our list from within. I expect at the end of the year 4-6 players will be moved on as is the norm every year.

[BIG JIM 508]

Still having a bad day. Fitzpatrick is seriously quick for a guy his size. I find it hilarious that people honestly think that all our problems will be solved by drafting 18 year olds and other clubs fringe players. At the end of the day we have to stop looking for the quick fix and start developing our list from within. I expect at the end of the year 4-6 players will be moved on as is the norm every year.

I tell you what if only 4 players go we are in trouble because this current list is shocking.

We need room for Cloke,Boak,Viney,Stringer and 13,35,56 maybe some trades and F/A.

I think you will find that about 8 to 12 players will go.

[robbiefrom13 877]

I tell you what if only 4 players go we are in trouble because this current list is shocking.

We need room for Cloke,Boak,Viney,Stringer and 13,35,56 maybe some trades and F/A.

I think you will find that about 8 to 12 players will go.

what, and start again, again? Pretty destabilizing! I should hope nothing of the kind happens, and I very much doubt it will.

My thoughts are based on concern about the damage that was done when the club under Bailey began cutting senior players, culminating in the cutting of their highly regarded captain James MacDonald; and then followed that a year later with cutting almost all the 2011 leaders, and this year allowed it be generally believed that Neeld intends to clear out a whole lot more players at the end of the year. I hope the club shares the view that overall this has damaged the club more than it has benefited us.

Elements of the present poor performance of the team are confidence, player development, perhaps club culture, the team not carrying out a well-oiled game plan, and so on. In some ways it is the lack of esprit de corps that has been the biggest disappointment in a disappointing year - being able to joke and laugh while your team is being or just has been thrashed, not spreading for the player taking possession, not shepherding, etc etc.

These are things we need to see improving, quite apart from the talent of the individuals on our list. Importing talent obviously will not automatically fix them.

On the other hand, if we ignore these things, and make the club a revolving door for players, instead just focusing on importing talent, strength, speed, etc - and thereby, by implication, blaming the existing players for our poor season - what effect will that have? It certainly won't help develop confidence, or the individual development, of those players spared the axe. Can we afford to further weaken confidence (and job security) among the playing group?

Maybe we should focus on player development. Misson is still a long way from having completed his work, and benefits are certain to follow as he gets the players closer to what he is aiming for. Neeld will be working out more about how to develop his players as he goes along. Teaching is an endless exploration of what works best with the students in front of you, as well as, over time, an inevitable growing understanding of one another, between teacher and students; similarly at the footy club, unless something is going drastically wrong, the benefits of Neeld's coaching of the players should only increase.

Scotty and Juicebox (#56 and 57 above) both shift focus away from which players to turf out, and instead raise questions about the club's development staff. Curry & Beer (#39) offers the view that "some of Collingwood's better players would be battling in the VFL had Melbourne drafted them". A lot of posters see player development as an issue at least as worrying as recruitment.

At the end of the year, then, I suggest we ought to be giving the message that in general we have faith in the players. We have faith in Misson and Neeld and the whole club to be getting more and more out of our players. This would be a positive for the players, before we even look at the pre-season. It might help to draw a line under the negativity most notably fueled by the sacking of JMac. It would place the focus squarely on the real issue of how to get the maximum out of those people who actually are the Melbourne Footy Club. With the coach's faith in them demonstrated, player confidence in both the coach and themselves could be expected to be much higher than it was last summer. Clear the bad air, and have a good run at it in 2013...

With growing esprit de corps we might get 80% efficiency out of players with 75% talent - which is a much better outcome than 60% efficiency out of a group of 90% talented players (there for the money and who have only known one another for a short while). Do the maths: 80x75 = 60%, while 60x90 = 54%. A "team" team beats a cartel of all-stars, comfortably, regularly; what's more, the fans love them, and it can grow into culture...

Edited July 11, 2012 by robbiefrom13

[Bossdog 2,002]

I tell you what if only 4 players go we are in trouble because this current list is shocking.

We need room for Cloke,Boak,Viney,Stringer and 13,35,56 maybe some trades and F/A.

I think you will find that about 8 to 12 players will go.

If we do as you want.....we will be waiting for another 10 years whilst these draft picks mature....It has been proved that you cannot get rid of half your list and expect to succeed....read GWS and GC....Cloke will re sign at Coll....Boak is not the savior.....will will get a few good players in the draft but it will take years for them to mature.......This cull you want will set us back 5 to 10 years....and you will be still sooking

[BIG JIM 508]

If we do as you want.....we will be waiting for another 10 years whilst these draft picks mature....It has been proved that you cannot get rid of half your list and expect to succeed....read GWS and GC....Cloke will re sign at Coll....Boak is not the savior.....will will get a few good players in the draft but it will take years for them to mature.......This cull you want will set us back 5 to 10 years....and you will be still sooking

I am sooking allready and this list change im talking about is getting all the players not at AFL standerd of the list

I tell you what if we land Cloke,Boak,Toumpas,Viney and some other older F/A we will not be going back 10 years.

We will be playing finals in 2013,14

Im sure if we cut players like Spencer,Bennel,Bate,Dunn,Lawrence it will not set the club back 10 years it will drag the club forward with the names above.

Everyone has there own thought's.

Also you say its proven(fact) that it does not work well i say Richmond cut 12 players and they are looking o.k

I dont want more skinny kids i want men like Cloke,Boak,Knights,Viney(man child) this is just IMO

Edited July 11, 2012 by BIG JIM

[Miles from Nowhere 199]

With growing esprit de corps we might get 80% efficiency out of players with 75% talent - which is a much better outcome than 60% efficiency out of a group of 90% talented players (there for the money and who have only known one another for a short while). Do the maths: 80x75 = 60%, while 60x90 = 54%. A "team" team beats a cartel of all-stars, comfortably, regularly; what's more, the fans love them, and it can grow into culture...

Funny. You do realise that 87.3% of statistics are made up!