THE WRITING ON THE WALL

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

1. West Coast lost there.

2. We lost our 2 best players before the game and a key backman 5 minutes into the match.

3. Read points 1 and 2 repeatedly until understood.

and our key forward.

[beelzebub 23,376]

At the moment I can't even see the trees let alone the forest.

What I'm looking at is a empty barren wasteland that needs to be ploughed and reseeded

Its hardly barren. But its certainly not over-run with growth. If this were farming youd only be turning over one of your fileds whilst tending the rest. A bit of fertiliser and care will see the rest yield a decent crop.

A couple might need to be put out to pasture though

[rpfc 28,430]

I stand by the list of players as being as good as any in the league, given the obvious allowances for age, inexperience, development etc - a good coach would be able to extract much more from them - it's easy to keep blaming players and turning them over each year, but it won't work in the long run.

lol

What the hell does this mean?

'Our list is as good as any except that they are younger, have less experience and haven't developed properly...'

That means you don't think they are as good as any other list!

I also have high hopes for our list as it stands but not Dunn, Bate, MacDonald, and Spencer - who all played yesterday.

I also have high hopes for a forward line with Clark, Davey, and Jurrah and I think that Jones, Jamar, Gysberts, and Viney will be apart of a very good midfield group in the future - but they were not there yesterday.

The fact is that we didn't get out and spread the way we did against the Bombers and GWS and we had 90-odd less uncontested possessions. If we work harder, kick into the forward line better (we had more I50s), then we will go a hell of a lot closer.

But you don't want this conversation do you?

You think they are excuses?

When is a reason not an excuse and vice-versa. Are they both the same? Are we, as a people, too cynical for 'reasons?'

[binman 42,968]

Before the Essendon game i predicted we would finish with 5-6 wins for the season. I saw nothing yesterday to suggest we would not make that mark

Edited July 1, 2012 by binman

[Samsara 65]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ARITnC80VhE Edited July 1, 2012 by Samsara

[daisycutter 29,616]

That's what he does now- pointing and yelling is the new first second and third efforts. Thing is (and this is just me speculating) Moloney will feel slighted by being sent back to Casey, and come back with an even bigger chip on his shoulder (again- me speculating)

I think he's done. An analogue player in a digital world.

You've lost me on that analogy Sloones

If anything it is the other way around

Analog has infinite variety whereas digital has only one attribute and that is on or off

Beamer is definitely your one-dimensional digital man (imnsho)

[beelzebub 23,376]

No...Moloney's playing at 33 in a 45 game !!

[drdrake 3,163]

We will play finals in 2013, Neeld and Co are just working players out, throwing different challenges at them to see how they respond. It would have been easy for Neeld to switch Dunn and Watts back to the forward line but he didn't their education on certain aspects are more important, same with Howe we could of left him deep forward but his education as a midfielder is a priority. Look at our best 18 posts from the start of the year I had our forward line as Green Clark Martin Howe Watts Jurrah, Only Howe and Martin spent limited time up forward.

[Face Your Demons 175]

I'm with Drdrake. There is something to this season that i really like. We are losing by over 60 points a game but it's not as bad as 2008. I believe Neeld knows exactly what he is doing and a big turn around will come very soon. This is the first time in as long as i can remember that i have faith in the direction we are going. We all might be surprised at who Neeld keeps at years end.

[rjay 24,928]

Why put Watts onto Brown at the start - it worked better when Frawley went to him.

McDonald was on him at the start, Watts moved across when he was injured and didn't last too long. Would have been a better move to push Frawley to him but hindsight is a wonderful thing.

[Fat Tony 5,231]

We were horrible again yesterday. A 10 goal hiding to a very ordinary team.

Neeld continues to make the same basic mistakes at the selection table, notably the decision to play Spencer, playing Blease as the sub (on repreive) even while Davey was out of the side, Frawley being the third option for Brown and again carrying more key defenders than we needed.

With Clark out for the season we obviously need to move the ball much faster and aggressively through the corridor. Neeld needs to show some flexibility with repsect to his gameplan otherwise we won’t get close to anyone other than GWS and GC.

[beelzebub 23,376]

The difference now is there's method to this madness.

Theres the old adage... give a man a fish, feed him for a day, Teach him to fish, feed him for life.

What it seems to me so many short sighted supporters want is some form of instant gratification with no view to the longer term.

Neeld is figuring our who has the potential to fish, and will teach them . Then we'll have ongoing success not this weekend...and then a drought for months..then another win etc.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Are so many here so dumb ?? Watts was put on Brown to learn. Its all about learning this year. Brown is the comensurate CHF...who better to play against.?

[rjay 24,928]

Tell that to west coast who were decimated with injury. How about Adelaide who have gone from rags to riches. While we have Petered, Morton, Gysberts, bennell and tynan at Casey, I wouldn't say that injuries are our problem. Our problem is that neeld can't get the best out of his team.

Morton and Bennell have yet to prove themselves at AFL level, Petterd, Gysberts and Tynan are all coming back from injury and also yet to prove themselves at AFL level, they are hardly Cox, Kerr, Glass, Embley, Thompson, Rutten, Dangerfield and co...

[rjay 24,928]

Are so many here so dumb ?? Watts was put on Brown to learn. Its all about learning this year. Brown is the comensurate CHF...who better to play against.?

Thought the same and at the time it could have been a good move but Brown was just to strong that's why hindsight is so good. A lot would say Neeld should have seen it coming but it could have been great for Watts' development, worth a try.

[drdrake 3,163]

Are so many here so dumb ?? Watts was put on Brown to learn. Its all about learning this year. Brown is the comensurate CHF...who better to play against.?

Agree with this. also add that Brown had so much space in front of him no one could stop him. The mark at the top of the square OK he was to strong for Watts but we had players there that should of filled the space in front of Brown.

[Jonesbag 487]

How can you possibly sack neeld? Some people on here just wow, seriously who would do better? Is its neelds fault that he is giving our team a game plan and our retarded players cant follow? He is 1000 times better than bailey and i bet you will all be back slapping when we get some wins up on the board next year.

[beelzebub 23,376]

Neeld , as a balanced thinker, would not have seriously gone into the game expecting to win. So what do you take away from it? Experience is the answer...and knowledge..

Watts has steadily improved the more and more he plays on quality oppoistion. Id almost bet Watts even asked to be put on him. Jackie boy is quite proactive now in his education of thing footy. He sought out Micky Mouse for advice after a lambasting.

lets be fair... Watts didnt get a lot of help yesterday, there simply werent the cattle on the paddock. And yet we still only got done by 60.

[mrtwister 652]

Agree with this. also add that Brown had so much space in front of him no one could stop him. The mark at the top of the square OK he was to strong for Watts but we had players there that should of filled the space in front of Brown.

Not sure it was a learing exercise for Watts. I think Neeld saw the value in keeping Frawley relatively freed up with a 3rd/4th string forward.

I think he trialled Watts because ideally, having Frawley the role that was planned would be best.

Unfortunately, Watts on Brown was about effective as Morton would be on Cloke. Once Frawley went to Brown he was tied up and we rarely saw him after that. In recent games Frawley did a good job pushing up the ground as the last ring of defenders trapping the ball in our forward half. You can't gift Brown that much freedom. It also retarded Frawley's carry out of the backline which meant less uncontested possessions for those on the receiving end.

From then on we were slowly taking on water without any buckets.

[beelzebub 23,376]

In past games its been Garland or like thats lined up on Brown.

Why does anyone suppose it was a peculiar idea to put Watts on Brown anyway. He ( Watts ) has been playing as a back all year all but and the only person other than Chip that would have had much of a chance is Watts.

[The Chazz 4,077]

The difference now is there's method to this madness.

Theres the old adage... give a man a fish, feed him for a day, Teach him to fish, feed him for life.

What it seems to me so many short sighted supporters want is some form of instant gratification with no view to the longer term.

Neeld is figuring our who has the potential to fish, and will teach them . Then we'll have ongoing success not this weekend...and then a drought for months..then another win etc.

B59, I'm all about the longer term view, and can only put my faith (hopefully it's not blind faith) in to Neeld and co. But, at the risk of speaking on behalf of some supporters, all we want at the moment are competitive efforts. I'm sick of hearing press conferernces from players after a loss saying "we didn't spread". This has been obvious all year, and while the players are totally aware that this is a problem, why the hell aren't they doing something about it?

I strongly believe that Neeld made some poor decisions yesterday, with the first being obvious at the opening bounce. Why was Martin first ruck and Spencer in the forward line? Spencer is a ruckman (apparently), it was his first game in a long time, why start him forward? Moving Watts to Brown was obviously for Watts' development, but why? Brown's that "gorilla forward" that some teams have, Watts won't be one of those, and will not be a "gorilla tamer" if he has a career as a defender.

Playing Garland and Rivers forward has been somewhat of a success story in previous weeks, and is giving both players the opportunity to learn to play a role that in future, we may need them to pinch hit. From a development point of view, I don't know if there is a strong need to play them there for the rest of the year, and as soon as we saw McDonald go down yesterday, I think that it would've been better from a structure point of view to move at least one of JR or CG back. To Neeld's credit(?), he wasn't reactive in his moves, but I'm just not sure if that was the right decision.

Stupid turnovers has nothing to do with players developing in their roles. When I saw Grimes kick it on the full because he elected to kick with his non-preferred when he had ample opportunity to kick it with his preferred, that sort of stuff just kicks me in the guts. This has happened umpteen times this season from a variety of players, and I'm continually amazed that these errors are being made without consequence.

The thing that concerns me the most about this season is the fact that, taking away the 2 franchise clubs, we are on the bottom. No one expected GC or GWS to be in a position other than where they are, so basucally, we're the "unofficial" wooden spoon-ists. Neeld has openly commented that he has told players that when we've played well in the past, we've looked amazing, but we're putting that style of play on hold to work on some of the basics. This is a very dangerous path to take, but again, I'm putting my faith in his decisions. At the instruction of the coach, we've shelved that run through the corridor, we've shelved that creativity and dare to take the game on, I just hope that when the players are asked to take it off the shelf that they remember how to do it.

I'm amazed that we lost by 10 goals - it should've been more, and I'm more amazed that people on here are happy to accept it and write it off as development. Like Big Jim (I think) said in another post, I'm sick of draft picks. I'd rather be wondering who is left toward the end of the first round rather than wonder who we are going to take with pick 3 - at least that would mean we're finishing higher up the ladder. Then some more educated posters on here are hoping we get involved in the mini draft this year, which will mean we're picking up a 17 year old who won't be able to play until 2014 at the earliest.

End rant.

[rpfc 28,430]

Does a lack of personnel affect the selection and match-ups in a game?

I'm amazed that we lost by 10 goals - it should've been more, and I'm more amazed that people on here are happy to accept it and write it off as development. Then some more educated posters on here are hoping we get involved in the mini draft this year, which will mean we're picking up a 17 year old who won't be able to play until 2014 at the earliest.

End rant.

We won the contested possession, clearances, Inside 50s, and had as many tackles as them.

We didn't spread, and we didn't kick into the forward line well (or have a functioning forward line).

We didn't play poorly, but had a poor result.

I don't know why the 17 year old draft is relevant here? I just want the best list management outcome from wherever we finish the season - that might involved the 17 year old draft.

Or should we just leave that business to other clubs?

Whatever It Takes...

[dee-luded 2,959]

At the moment I can't even see the trees let alone the forest.

What I'm looking at is a empty barren wasteland that needs to be ploughed and reseeded

Bandicoot, with a name like that you should understand that ploughing the ground cause a lot of damage to the structures if that ground.

A simple slash of weeds & oversow is the best way to go.

[Mac7 309]

_{Some well balanced and thought out posts on this thread. Refreshing reading after I was pretty p*ssed yesterday.}

_{One thing that does do my head in is that we never seem to kick to a forward on a lead, it’s always long and high to a contest. Mitch was able to deal with this okay, but 9 times out of 10 this is a defenders dream and the ball is smashed to the boundary.}

_{Whatever happened to leading hard and putting the ball into space to run into? Essendon are doing it beautifully at the moment and Hurley is reaping the rewards.}

Edited July 2, 2012 by Mac7

[45HG 1,539]

_{Some well balanced and thought out posts on this thread. Refreshing reading after I was pretty p*ssed yesterday.}

_{One thing that does do my head in is that we never seem to kick to a forward on a lead, it’s always long and high to a contest. Mitch was able to deal with this okay, but 9 times out of 10 this is a defenders dream and the ball is smashed to the boundary.}

_{Whatever happened to leading hard and putting the ball into space to run into? Essendon are doing it beautifully at the moment and Hurley is reaping the rewards.}

It's a good point you raise and something that I noticed yesterday - our forward line always seems quite congested. That may be because there are players playing there who are unfamiliar with the angles/spaces etc. but, to me, it always seems chockers. As you say, a 2 metre tall, athletic behemoth could deal with it - but we'll struggle to kick goals going forward if we keep the setup of falls supported by slow grunts.