Hardwick's Tiges Lighting a Path for the Demons

[rufus 916]

I don't know if Neeld is the man to help us find that elusive 13th flag, or even to drag us up into finals contention, but I'll back him 100% for now.

I'm 40, I've supported the dees since the mid 70's and while we might've looked good at times, we've always been fickle. Even during the Northey years, which are mythologised a bit around here, we'd manage to lose 3 or 4 on the trot with insipid performances at some stage during the year.

Our players have always seemed to relax whenever they get a pat on the back, the hunger has never seemed to be there. We've all heard the rumours over the years, "hollywood boulevard", arrogant players that think being an AFL player is enough. Our culture is pathetic, and as much as it hurts us fans, we all know it's the truth.

Finally we've got a coach that is willing to take that on. Willing to butt heads with our soft, pampered, arrogant, senior players before they pass that poisoned mindset on to yet another generation of Melbourne players. I'll back Neeld because the players have lost me. I can handle being crap, 08-10 wasn't that bad because you could see the effort, especially from our senior blokes, but it hasn't been there for a long time. The players have a choice, get on board or GTFO.

The AFL is a tough competitive environment, we need tough, competitive players. If training is too hard, if adhering to structures is too hard, if going when it's your turn is too hard, if being disciplined on and off the field is too hard, then playing for Melbourne is too hard, GTFO.

I think this post is spot on. For mine, the thing that has always lacked at MFC in my 30 years of supporting has been the defensive intent. In my experience in football, I have played in teams that have done well and won premierships, and teams that have been poor and been relegated. Without a doubt the success and failure has been driven by the defensive intent of my teams. In my view defensive structures need to be put in place when the players don't necessarily naturally have a good defensive intent (very common in young AFL players because the elite pathway into the league is more about excelling as an individual than as part of a team IMO). This is what we are trying to do now because our players have not been educated well on their defensive aspects. I don't buy into the notion that we have a poor list or that our players are no good. We may not have as many 'elite' players are other teams but we have guys who can play football at this level. Every AFL team has weaknesses, some teams have educated their players very well to 'play their role' which includes being accountable and competing hard in contests.

I like that Neeld has these defensive traits as non-negotiables. This clubs needs to enforce this. I hope the players are smart enough to understand that if you are good defensively as an individual (ala the pressure and accountability demonstrated by each and every Adelaide player last Sunday vs. Carlton), the offensive side of your game naturally feeds off it. All of a sudden you are getting the ball back off players who have been constantly under the pump and it actually creates better chances to run and spread as a result.

I think it's amazing that when I think back of watching Melbourne over the years, I can remember only a limited numbers of games where Melbourne brought the kind of defensive pressure that is required for sustained success in the AFL (a few examples include a final against North Melb under Daniher in the late 90's/early 2000's, Queens Birthday draw vs. Collingwood in 2010, and a Friday night vs. Essendon last year). And BTW, the intensity that was brought vs. Essendon last year actually annoyed me a little in hindsight because it came about after the players had been called soft by an opponent during the lead up to the game, and I thought it kind of disappointing that the players clearly showed passion and fight when they had been questioned as individuals but did not bring that approach week in week out when their motivation is to bring passion and fight for the club, the jumper and the supporters.

Anyhow, Neeld's approach appears to be wanting strong defensive intent to be the norm and if we have to wear some pain in the mean time then I am ok with it.

[Redleg 37,690]

To me it says: make sure you draft a couple of gun midfielders from the pointy end of the draft.

Amen.

[640MD 2,809]

Very interesting read these posts, mostly looking forward albeit in different ways different reasons

No point in being negative, I just want Neelds point about coaching a team thats the

hardest to play against ( can't remember exact words) to be true. Hated that bruise free tag!

go Dees give 'em HELL !!!

[H_T 2,941]

Very interesting read these posts, mostly looking forward albeit in different ways different reasons

No point in being negative, I just want Neelds point about coaching a team thats the

hardest to play against ( can't remember exact words) to be true. Hated that bruise free tag!

go Dees give 'em HELL !!!

Agree 640MD. But I want to stress that he may not be able to do that effectively until such time as we get a competitive and polished midfield. I feel for him, I feel for the supporters, I feel for the posters on Demonland and their Demon families, and I feel for those supporters waiting an eternity and to those who thought our rebuild was just about there. Which it wasn't.

I can see in the next few weeks much of the same thing against solid quality opposition and from those putting heat on the coach and club. Some may think the club deserves heat and that they brought it on themselves. All I ask is those have a modicum of thought as to where we are at and working towards as a club, the personnel we have in the midfield, the quality of the opposition and that it's a long term solution rather than a quick fix.

[jackaub 1,402]

Couldnt agree more Rufus

I have supported for as long as I can remember. Nobody will take the club seriously until that intent is displayed each and every game. The club is considered a joke by opposition players and supporters. If i ever se Silvias smiling face in those circmstances again i will be sick. He i s one of many potential victims of the accountability culture that Neeld and his team are demanding. I have to support Neeld in this and all should do so.

[Dr. Gonzo 22,487]

I don't know if Neeld is the man to help us find that elusive 13th flag, or even to drag us up into finals contention, but I'll back him 100% for now.

I'm 40, I've supported the dees since the mid 70's and while we might've looked good at times, we've always been fickle. Even during the Northey years, which are mythologised a bit around here, we'd manage to lose 3 or 4 on the trot with insipid performances at some stage during the year.

Our players have always seemed to relax whenever they get a pat on the back, the hunger has never seemed to be there. We've all heard the rumours over the years, "hollywood boulevard", arrogant players that think being an AFL player is enough. Our culture is pathetic, and as much as it hurts us fans, we all know it's the truth.

Finally we've got a coach that is willing to take that on. Willing to butt heads with our soft, pampered, arrogant, senior players before they pass that poisoned mindset on to yet another generation of Melbourne players. I'll back Neeld because the players have lost me. I can handle being crap, 08-10 wasn't that bad because you could see the effort, especially from our senior blokes, but it hasn't been there for a long time. The players have a choice, get on board or GTFO.

The AFL is a tough competitive environment, we need tough, competitive players. If training is too hard, if adhering to structures is too hard, if going when it's your turn is too hard, if being disciplined on and off the field is too hard, then playing for Melbourne is too hard, GTFO.

Excellent post, particularly re: the Northey years. I have been following the Demons since 1987 when I was 5 years old. Never have I seen a team in those 25 seasons that has been a consistent performer week in, week out. Go back and look at the results from 1988, 1989 & 1990 and compare them to 2004, 2005 & 2006. Striking similarities in losing winnable games to lowly oppoisition, going on 5-6 game losing streaks, getting ahead of ourselves once we started to perform well and all in all shooting ourselves in the foot and costing us a double chance in the finals. Every year we made the finals under Northey we played in Elimination Finals, we never played a Qualifying Final or god forbid had the first week off. Similar story in 2004 after we topped the ladder after round 18, 2005 where we went on a diabolical losing streak after playing a top of the table match against WCE and 2006 where we lost twice to wooden spooners Carlton.

[Ned 156]

Big difference RR. When Richmond was 0-9 its players were clearly trying hard, they just weren't good enough. My concern is that it's not just our senior ayers not having a go. I was at the SCG last week and it was alarming. The psychotic faces Neeld was pulling in the box alarmed me further. Maybe you're right, it certainly crossed my mind too, but I'm not as confident after last week.

Separately, I'd love to cane the Blues today and North get flogged so their respective coaches can have some pressure and Melbourne have a week without scrutiny.

[praha 10,283]

Funny how two years ago we were looking to Hawthorn of 04-08 as a stepping block to success, and no we're looking at a club that started 0-9 2 years ago and still hasn't done much.

In other words, we've all come down to earth to realise it simply isn't that easy. Hawthorn overachieved very early. That's evident now.

[rpfc 27,501]

Big difference RR. When Richmond was 0-9 its players were clearly trying hard, they just weren't good enough. My concern is that it's not just our senior ayers not having a go. I was at the SCG last week and it was alarming. The psychotic faces Neeld was pulling in the box alarmed me further. Maybe you're right, it certainly crossed my mind too, but I'm not as confident after last week.

Separately, I'd love to cane the Blues today and North get flogged so their respective coaches can have some pressure and Melbourne have a week without scrutiny.

What faces were you pulling while you were watching?

[Ned 156]

What faces were you pulling while you were watching?

I'm not the one who has to deal with the players. A coach needs a little composure.

If you'd like me to comment on your semi-coherent posts champ I'm happy to oblige.

[rpfc 27,501]

I'm not the one who has to deal with the players. A coach needs a little composure.

If you'd like me to comment on your semi-coherent posts champ I'm happy to oblige.

How can something be 'semi-coherent' - either you understand or you don't.

I am simply stating that the many 'rage' faces we put on during the game would be nothing compared to what Neeld's face would show.

And the players don't see those faces he shows in the box - they are out on the ground.

[Binmans PA 26,225]

what is the richmond gameplan by the way? (serious question!)

They've recruited a very solid, young midfield. If we had their young midfield, we'd be a top 8 side. It's their backline that is their weakness and will never stand up in a finals situation.

It may sound crazy, but we're not actually that far from where Richmond are right now. It's just where the game is won or lost is in the midfield. Our strength is our defence and to an extent our forwardline - who despite today's missed chances, usually convert well from very limited opportunity. We certainly have the other pieces of the puzzle slowly coming together. Inject some talent into that midfield, a year of learning our new game plan and I think we'll see quite a rapid climb up the ladder. It may only take another year of heartache, providing we draft well (both experience and young, elite midfield talent).

[Hardnut 327]

How can something be 'semi-coherent' - either you understand or you don't.

I am simply stating that the many 'rage' faces we put on during the game would be nothing compared to what Neeld's face would show.

And the players don't see those faces he shows in the box - they are out on the ground.

Something can easily be 'semi-coherent' rpfc - you may think your post is clear to you, but to someone else it may have a different meaning even if they think they know what you meant. In simple terms, posts should be clear in their wording so that no confusion of meaning can occur. This is a problem faced every day by test and examination writers - think about your audience and the message you wish to convey. Does your post achieve what you intended?

[rjay 23,925]

They've recruited a very solid, young midfield. If we had their young midfield, we'd be a top 8 side. It's their backline that is their weakness and will never stand up in a finals situation.

It may sound crazy, but we're not actually that far from where Richmond are right now. It's just where the game is won or lost is in the midfield. Our strength is our defence and to an extent our forwardline - who despite today's missed chances, usually convert well from very limited opportunity. We certainly have the other pieces of the puzzle slowly coming together. Inject some talent into that midfield, a year of learning our new game plan and I think we'll see quite a rapid climb up the ladder. It may only take another year of heartache, providing we draft well (both experience and young, elite midfield talent).

Spot on about the Tige defense Adam, was only saying the same thing to a mate at the game today. Their defenders are getting a lot of praise in the press at the moment but when you have a midfield like they have it makes the job so much easier. Our guys have so much pressure on them because of our poor midfield. Frawley, Rivers, Garland and Tommy Mac are doing a massive job under enormous pressure. Watts has added a bit of class dowm back and all I would like to see is for Col Garland to get some confidence back in his run and carry. Come on Col it's not your fault, it's your teammates up the ground, he seems to take it all on his shoulders at times.

[rpfc 27,501]

Something can easily be 'semi-coherent' rpfc - you may think your post is clear to you, but to someone else it may have a different meaning even if they think they know what you meant. In simple terms, posts should be clear in their wording so that no confusion of meaning can occur. This is a problem faced every day by test and examination writers - think about your audience and the message you wish to convey. Does your post achieve what you intended?

Coherency is not an objective measurement but I would say that if someone cannot follow a piece of writing it may not be the writer who is at fault.

[Biffen 12,342]

What faces were you pulling while you were watching?

Picture the Joker after sucking a lemon and you'll begin to understand how my face looks watching us play .

Even the boundary umpires conspired against us twice today .

Nothing is going our way at all.

I really dont give a rats about the photogeniality of the coach .

Just hope he continues to toughen the boys up .

[rjay 23,925]

What really gets me is that we are comparing ourselves to the Tiges of 2010. Our great spin doc CEO was BSing on about it today on the radio. Fact is in 2010 we were on our way as the next big thing, years ahead of Richmond in our rebuild and heading into 2011 with a chance of making the 8. It has all come crashing down and our rebuild is into it's 5th year, the Tiges are well ahead of us.

Can we really trust the same CEO to take us into another rebuild?

[Binmans PA 26,225]

It's a good point. I don't think CS will be there come the end of the year, but he's had a hand in some nice initiatives in his second stint and deserves acknowledgement. The logo and the proudness of history, the new facilities etc. Cameron has done a lot of good for the club. I have no idea if he micro-managed the FD last year, but either way, he's got enough runs on the board to deserve my thanks.

[Guest Jackie]

Anyone last night see Aadam Maric's great tackle on a Saints defender late in the game at a crucial moment? Forced the ball loose, gathered it and followed up with a long sweet pass to Jack Reiwoldt for a gimmie goal that finally buried the Saints.

How times have changed.

Edited June 2, 2012 by Jackie

[mauriesy 6,811]

Anyone last night see Aadam Maric's great tackle on a Saints defender late in the game at a crucial moment? Forced the ball loose, gathered it and followed up with a long sweet pass to Jack Reiwoldt for a gimmie goal that finally buried the Saints.

How times have changed.

He did the occasional good thing for Melbourne too, you know. Ask yourself why was he sub and not playing the whole match.

The Tigers got Deledio, Cotchin and Martin, and with similar picks over the last few years we chose Morton, Scully and Trengove. Only one of ours is still any good for us, all three of theirs are gun midfielders.

Agree with those posters who are saying how important it is to make sure we get a couple of gun midfielders from the pointy end of this year's draft.

[Hannibal 5,814]

Anyone last night see Aadam Maric's great tackle on a Saints defender late in the game at a crucial moment? Forced the ball loose, gathered it and followed up with a long sweet pass to Jack Reiwoldt for a gimmie goal that finally buried the Saints.

How times have changed.

You're making a sweeping statement based on one piece of play about a player that's border-line best 22; and when he does get a game he either starts as a sub, or gets subbed out ?

[Guest Jackie]

Two little differences. His tackle actually stuck and he chose to pass rather than blaze away as he normally would have. Still I agree he has limited game time value.