Sellar is a Ben holland clone. He's just big. Can't get a touch. I guess he's role was just to create a contest but at this level, it's just not good enough. Made good position, couldn't hold one mark.

I must say, i thought we were tanking tonight when McDonald lined up on rooey, but what a job he did.

Trengove and watts fitness levels are not afl level. We need to get these guys up ASAP.

Sellar was terrible, but Stef Martin would be a step backwards

gotta disagree with you there JR - I reckon Martin offers more, both in front of goal and around the ground

As much as this game style has been proven a success by Colingwood, it is frustrating seeing players on their own in the middle of the

ground, screaming out for the ball, and players with the ball, clearly under and following instructions, hug the boundary and kick to a

contest. Who is more culpable here, the guys in the middle of the ground not being in the right position (wide) or the guy with the ball

that ignores the free man. Bail was on his own many a time tonight in the centre but was largely ignored.

As much as this game style has been proven a success by Colingwood, it is frustrating seeing players on their own in the middle of the

ground, screaming out for the ball, and players with the ball, clearly under and following instructions, hug the boundary and kick to a

contest. Who is more culpable here, the guys in the middle of the ground not being in the right position (wide) or the guy with the ball

that ignores the free man. Bail was on his own many a time tonight in the centre but was largely ignored.

I saw that too, DD.

I think those days are over.

Neeld wants defence and stoppages and bruise - full footy.

Plenty of ice packs after the game.

Edited April 28, 201213 yr by jumbo returns

Trengove and watts fitness levels are not afl level. We need to get these guys up ASAP.

Big assumption. Trengove led the club in pre-season time trials, faster than Scully. Maybe there's another reason.

I had one of those 'oh god here we go again' moments in the 3rd quarter when the saints kicked the first 2 goals, and I thought we were going to get run over. Top marks to the boys for hanging in and getting within 3 points at 3/4 time. We won the clearances, the tackles and for the first time the disposals.

Bate and Morton deserve their place in the side. Bate still got possessions despite playing out of position in the forward line. He seems more affective in midfield.

Morton gives us some badly needed run and carry.

Sylvia is rusty but should get a full game next week.

Watts needs confidence. The game seems foreign to him at the moment. He has to learn to will himself to the contest. It might not hurt him to have a couple of weeks at Casey.

Trengove - like Frawley - is carrying something. He was late onto the track for training last Wednesday.

Neeld wants us to be the hardest team to beat, and It did look like tough work for the Saints tonight. What we need to do now is learn to win. We got a bit lost in the last quarter.

I'm glad i went to the match. At least I can say i saw Bartram kick that goal in the 3rd. Ha. Well done Jamie.

gotta disagree with you there JR - I reckon Martin offers more, both in front of goal and around the ground

Fair enough - for me, there are so many 'unfooty' things Stef does, even after being on the list for five or so years.

Big assumption. Trengove led the club in pre-season time trials, faster than Scully. Maybe there's another reason.

Something is def up With him. Everytime I see him he is running head down getting completely burned off by opposition.

Was that the most emotional Neeld has got in the box. I was at the game so havent seen the tv replay but on the screen they kept showing him just blowing his stack. Feel sorry for the person on the end of that phone line.

When Bartram kicked that great goals Neeld was down on the bench and got excited and pumped the fist. Maube he is seeing his players slowly get this game plan.

Sellar was terrible, but Stef Martin would be a step backwards.

Time to blood another youngster.

Jack Watts looked so relieved he survived his first real physical clash - terrible wet weather footballer.

It wasn't a great night for talls on both sides, and everyone dropped a lot of marks in the wet.

As much as this game style has been proven a success by Colingwood, it is frustrating seeing players on their own in the middle of the

ground, screaming out for the ball, and players with the ball, clearly under and following instructions, hug the boundary and kick to a

contest. Who is more culpable here, the guys in the middle of the ground not being in the right position (wide) or the guy with the ball

that ignores the free man. Bail was on his own many a time tonight in the centre but was largely ignored.

I think they need to take the centring option when it is on - you can't have everyone down the line trying to create contests - if the ball is turned over the opposition will have the whole corridor and other side of the ground to split us open.

Something is def up With him. Everytime I see him he is running head down getting completely burned off by opposition.

Yep. I am really worried about Trengove. He can lay tackles in close but once in space he is a liability right now.

It wasn't a great night for talls on both sides, and everyone dropped a lot of marks in the wet.

Oh, for sure - but I wonder whether Neeld should've asked for a big effort from Jamar and brought Sylvia on for Sellar?

The boys had a dip all night, that was the most pleasing part. We were much harder at the ball than the Saints, beat them in contested possessions, tackles and clearances. 9 times out of 10, if you win those stats, you win the game.

Only thing letting us down is disposal efficiency. For the 2nd week in a row, if we were cleaner with the ball, we win the game. Sucks to lose but after the lack of effort shown in the first 3 weeks, I'm beginning to see glimmers of hope! Good effort fellas!

Yep. I am really worried about Trengove. He can lay tackles in close but once in space he is a liability right now.

He'll come good, I'm not worried about him at all - as has been stated he must be carrying something, perhaps they need to rest him for a couple of weeks coming in to this horror stretch of games. Get him right for the second half of the season when we have a good chance to knock off a number of sides.

He'll come good, I'm not worried about him at all - as has been stated he must be carrying something, perhaps they need to rest him for a couple of weeks coming in to this horror stretch of games. Get him right for the second half of the season when we have a good chance to knock off a number of sides.

Agree. An injured player in the midfield is a death sentence.

Jamar's 55 hit outs is the most since Gary Dempsey in 1982!

Edited April 28, 201213 yr by Mac7

Fair enough - for me, there are so many 'unfooty' things Stef does, even after being on the list for five or so years.

But Sellar provided literally nothing up forward other than waving his arms about and looking flat footed. Stef is a tall target who is capable of taking a strong grab and finishing. Handy second ruck as well. In what universe is he a step back from Sellar?

Was that the most emotional Neeld has got in the box. I was at the game so havent seen the tv replay but on the screen they kept showing him just blowing his stack. Feel sorry for the person on the end of that phone line.

When Bartram kicked that great goals Neeld was down on the bench and got excited and pumped the fist. Maube he is seeing his players slowly get this game plan.

Saw that one the big screen, was EPIC, was going ape [censored] at something,

I think sellar is there for Neelds structures, he gets to the contest, makes one and nearly marks it. His game is close to being effective-ish.

Yes this isnt good enough but he is a big target who brings the ball to ground atleast, and i think thats half his job

Great game, even sitting in the pouring rain for much of it and in spite of the result. First half was almost exhilarating because the commitment was finally rewarded. It very well may be that they are learning where to position themselves so that their efforts actually get better rewarded. Still a few howlers to keep us grounded and I agree with an earlier poster who said that the rain helped us. It certainly had an impact on the cleaness of the Saints' handling and created a lot of turnovers for us.

Jones, Rivers, all 3 of the Mc/Macs, Magner, Bate, Cole, Bartram, Grimes all delivered. I am glad they've all been given an extended opportunity to get up to and/or maintain speed.

Jack Watts had a shocker (and I normally like everything he does!) and Dunn & Sellars didn't impress. Jamar also was really disappointing in that, apart from his tap work (unbeatable), he seems to have almost no influence. The St Kilda ruck men had almost an opposite result I.e. smashed in the tap work but effective around the ground. Ultimately, in my view, theirs was a better result.

The bottom line: if we keep improving at this rate , a win can't be far away and a series of wins not tha much further.

Sellar is a big unit. We need him as a target to at least contest. Yes he is not great (yet) but without him there he would be missed greatly. We have lacked height for years.

But Sellar provided literally nothing up forward other than waving his arms about and looking flat footed. Stef is a tall target who is capable of taking a strong grab and finishing. Handy second ruck as well. In what universe is he a step back from Sellar?

Time to blood another tall youngster - Fitzpatrick maybe? Stef Martin doesn't cut it.

Sellar is a big unit. We need him as a target to at least contest. Yes he is not great (yet) but without him there he would be missed greatly. We have lacked height for years.

No point having him as a big target when all the Saints defenders knew what was happening and made clearance after clearance.

A great effort from the boys tonight. Our intensity was superb for four quarters, we just seemed to run out of legs in the last.

Finally we tackled like an AFL club should. There have been so many missed tackles in the first four weeks but tonight I thought we 'stuck' most of our tackles and our actual intent to tackle was much better.

There's no doubt the rain helped us - made it more of a scrap and made it more difficult for the Saints to dominate us in uncontested possessions like the other teams who have played us so far. We still have concerns in this area.

Really enjoyed the game, although Saints fans probably thought it was a shocker and would be relieved to have ground out the win.

Loved Jordie's game. Was great to see a Melbourne player niggling and antagonising and getting right in an opposition star's face. Really aggressive tagging performance and absolutely towelled up Goddard. Jones and Grimes were also excellent and I thought the backline was pretty solid for most of the night.

First time in a long time I've walked away from a game proud of the team. Unfortunately we've all seen us over the last four or five years occasionally put in a performance like tonight and then revert back to the rubbish we've dished up so often. So the big question is - was that a one off or can we make that the standard and bring that intensity and aggression on a weekly basis?

What the hell was with the St Kilda Ruckman outrunning Tapscott in the last qtr?

Tapscott was on one leg for much of the last quarter. Had a physical clash with McEvoy - came off second best. Kept at it though.

No point having him as a big target when all the Saints defenders knew what was happening and made clearance after clearance.

sure. But without him there it would be worse no doubt