It'll be an important match cos I have the feeling both teams will be looking for their first win round 3.

Richmond.

They have potential match winners.

Newman Frawley Houli

Grimes Garland Delidio

Trengove D Martin Watts

Sylvia Clark Howe

Jurrah Riewolt Nahas

Jamar Cotchin Magner

I: Vickery, Conca, Jones, Moloney

Not bad - could flick a few but don't have the team lists at my disposal

Not sold on Houli and Nahas or Moloney at the moment

Massive deja vu.

Newman Frawley Houli

Grimes Garland Delidio

Trengove D Martin Watts

Sylvia Clark Howe

Jurrah Riewolt Nahas

Jamar Cotchin Magner

I: Vickery, Conca, Jones, Moloney

Not bad - could flick a few but don't have the team lists at my disposal

Not sold on Houli and Nahas or Moloney at the moment

What ? No Miller ?

Cheers

Midfield is missing totally for us and the Tiges (who I am not a fan of) have class there and that is something they can develop further. We are way behind in that development.

At this point nothing else matters. Without a midfield we are cooked.

Agree with this.

I think it was Sheedy years ago who said Premierships are built around defense. He was correct up until about 5 years ago IMO. These days it's the midfield that is by far the most important building block for a flag. Even without this weekends results to ponder, I doubt too many on here could think our midfield was superior to theirs. Our defense would be streets ahead of theirs, but overall I think they have more upside than us right now.

We got pantsed by a team that finished bottom four last year, they got pantsed by a team that played semi finals last year and will go at least one better this year. There's your answer.

i'll go with, from the 2 22's:

the ones:

B: newman - frawley - garland

HB: j grimes - d grimes - deledio

C: watts - d martin - trengove

HF: howe - clark - foley

F: vickery - riewoldt - nahas

Foll: jamar - cotchin - jones

I/C: s martin - magner - mckenzie

Sub: conca

the twos:

B: bartram - rance - post

HB: macdonald - rivers - s morris

C: tynan - jackson - bail

HF: edwards - miller - houli

F: davey - green - a maric

Foll: i maric - moloney - tuck

I/C: grigg - bate - b ellis

Sub: blease

line-ball btw mckenzie and jackson as the final midfielder on the bench, and i reckon conca is ahead of blease at this stage.

i'll go with, from the 2 22's:

the ones:

B: newman - frawley - garland

HB: j grimes - d grimes - deledio

C: watts - d martin - trengove

HF: howe - clark - foley

F: vickery - riewoldt - nahas

Foll: jamar - cotchin - jones

I/C: s martin - magner - mckenzie

Sub: conca

the twos:

B: bartram - rance - post

HB: macdonald - rivers - s morris

C: tynan - jackson - bail

HF: edwards - miller - houli

F: davey - green - a maric

Foll: i maric - moloney - tuck

I/C: grigg - bate - b ellis

Sub: blease

line-ball btw mckenzie and jackson as the final midfielder on the bench, and i reckon conca is ahead of blease at this stage.

Moloney in the Tiger 2's....says a lot doesn't it!!

In all honesty we need to stop concerning ourselves with other clubs, couldn't care about Richmond or the other 16 clubs but for the sake of reviewing their lists to see the differences

1. Richmond; Newman, Foley, Deledio, Tuck

2. North Melbourne; Harvey, Mcintosh, Petrie, Wells

3. Essendon; Watson, Mcveigh, Fletcher

4. Melbourne; and Green, Moloney, Davey

5. (arguably) West Coast. Cox, Kerr, Glass, Embley, Waters, Rosa, Selwood, Kennedy

The difference to me is clearly what our kids have as setting examples to them, not to mention the likes of Archer, Rawlings, Lloyd & Cousins who have moved on recently. All these sides have players like Tuck, Embley, Selwood A, Mcveigh who don't match some of our older players for skill & talent but use their strengths and get the best out of themselves.

The front running sides we had from 2000-2006 are coming back to haunt us, but I believe the young brigade we have no will take us forward and pass on the new culture to our future recruits

Footy is won in the midfield. The Tigers have the makings for an A-Grade midfield, Melbourne doesn't. Richmond is much farther ahead than us.

Footy is won in the midfield. The Tigers have the makings for an A-Grade midfield, Melbourne doesn't. Richmond is much farther ahead than us.

Did you think of that all by yourself?

Did you think of that all by yourself?

Just giving my input on an opinion thread, Biff. Some people here seem to think that we're ahead or pretty close to the Tigers when in reality we are not. We might have had a very slight upper hand on them in recent years, but they have the makings for a team that's going to go somewhere while we are missing more crucial pieces that are required to be a dominant team.

Every freakin team has a better list.

And their players try too. We will get beaten by GWS they way we are going.

The disappointing thing is that we bottomed out - and bottomed out almost comically over a long period - to get to where we are now. I just can't believe it.

I just wish we adopted the Swans formula over that period. It has practical, common sense to it - and that's why they have players like Josh Kennedy (pick 39) and we do not. They focus on 'hard at it', effective players with good character traits. It's footy - not science, and that approach is a proven formula.

It's simply damning that Neeld knew we had to dip into VFL stocks to try and create a competitive midfield this year - says it all really.

The disappointing thing is that we bottomed out - and bottomed out almost comically over a long period - to get to where we are now. I just can't believe it.

I just wish we adopted the Swans formula over that period. It has practical, common sense to it - and that's why they have players like Josh Kennedy (pick 39) and we do not. They focus on 'hard at it', effective players with good character traits. It's footy - not science, and that approach is a proven formula.

It's simply damning that Neeld knew we had to dip into VFL stocks to try and create a competitive midfield this year - says it all really.

What I struggle with RB is how the MFC manages to pull off the similar master strokes decade after decade