I replied to a topic a couple of weeks ago saying I thought the younger players had left our senior players out to dry with their very little development over the years. But yesterday made me think that I was wrong. Our senior players are showing are younger players an insipid brand of football and a mediocre performance can be accepted as the norm. We need to see our younger blokes step up a bit and form a rat pack that sees the likes of Beamer,Davey and Green down at Casey because are unit of younger players are just too good.

Welcome to the real world Cowboy

I think Tynan may fill the small defender role for us in years to come. He is beginning to look like a hell of a find. Our midfield is not elite and probably needs a bit of an overhaul. I'd love to see us trade for 1 more experienced mid to add a little extra immediately while our younger players come on, but I don't know if there's anyone we'd want in that position who will actually be up for trade for what we can give. Small forward is a must. Kel Lawrence is showing no sign of being the player we need, although he's lasted close to 18 months out here when he was reported to have huge homesickness issues early on.

We need midfielders, preferably with the ability to play forward or back but even if they can't if they can win some clearances then thats a start.

West Coast have great forward pressure without a designated quick small forward.

We need midfielders, preferably with the ability to play forward or back but even if they can't if they can win some clearances then thats a start.

West Coast have great forward pressure without a designated quick small forward.

Which is exactly what we needed 5 years ago.

What do we need? in two words: onfield leaders

Preferably ones that have been there and done that (think Judd, Swan, Mitchell, Hodge, Chapman, Bartel).

We need midfielders, preferably with the ability to play forward or back but even if they can't if they can win some clearances then thats a start.

West Coast have great forward pressure without a designated quick small forward.

is rory taggert the man, don't know much about him

KP forward, KP back, crumbing forward, running half back who can lock down a Milne or Ballantyne, midfielders, midfielders, midfielders with accurate disposal under pressure who can go forward and kick goals.

We also need Watts, Gysberts, Morton & Cook amongst others to put on 10-15kg.

Its simple. To be competitive, we need inside players to win clearances/contested ball; we need outside players to gut run.

Simple: we need uncompromising effort. If you don't win clearances and/or you don't gut run, you don't get a game.

Sellar to CHB with Rivers 3rd man up for the spoil in 1v1 situations

Davey to be told that we are really struggling to find a spot for him in this team UNLESS he can provide us with some effective disposals from clearances as an outside mid. Move Moloney into a rotation with Jones and Magner as the inside mids.

Watts and Morton on the wings to give us some versatility in that position.

Trangove and Howe as HFF to move up the ground and use their overhead strength to maintain possession.

Couch in the FP to read the ball off the contest, put his head down and get it out of the pack and into the hands of a scorer.

I would start with those and go from there.

I like your thinking and put enough hardnuts like Couch, Magner, Tapscott, Trengove in the team & just maybe there is room for Watts & Morton on the wing

There's something else going on here

The stink emanating from our playing group just can't be put down to bad drafting or bad coaching

Or can it? Something is drastically wrong. Players are going backwards, no leadership, no fighting spirit, no desire, no stars, no good skills, no brains.

This group is totally demoralised. I have no idea why but it is becoming a recurring nightmare

We now have a new coach, new and more assistant coaches, some of best training facilities in the comp and yet we go backwards

I give up, I feel this sense of hopelessness now more than at any time in the last 5 seasons

C'mon players give us something, just anything to feel positive about

Maybe Moloney is bullying the team to much and there sick of it? Having a bully in the team bossing people around could wreck the attitude of the whole team.

Could also explain why our mid-field is so s#%t, imagine trying to work alongside someone yelling crap in your ear all day, im sure no-one would do a good job with that crap.

Seems the MFC players have always looked 'down' or 'out of energy' or 'not motivated' since Moloney started running around the midfield.

Maybe Moloney is bullying the team to much and there sick of it? Having a bully in the team bossing people around could wreck the attitude of the whole team.

Could also explain why our mid-field is so s#%t, imagine trying to work alongside someone yelling crap in your ear all day, im sure no-one would do a good job with that crap.

Seems the MFC players have always looked 'down' or 'out of energy' or 'not motivated' since Moloney started running around the midfield.

Interesting thought. And some of us were afraid that Neeld was drifting close to bullying. On Beamer, do we have anything to go on other than lip-reading at a distance?

Not wanting to speculate overly, but it did seem odd that he was overlooked for leadership... And there is the fact of his non-performance when the going is tough... You have to think there is something, somewhere, insidiously undermining the whole show for the past so many years.

Do other demonlanders all feel good about Beamer's boxing camps for the kids, run more-or-less separate to the club? Is he on board, or flying solo - do we have any real evidence, those who read his twitter, or have spoken with him?

Honestly can you really see someone with Moloneys bully like antics working coherently with someone like Gysberts?

I think the mid-field needs to be mates or at least get on well for any chance of chemistry between them.

These guys are never going to have chemistry with Moloney due to his age difference and his personality.

Its simple. To be competitive, we need inside players to win clearances/contested ball; we need outside players to gut run.

Simple: we need uncompromising effort. If you don't win clearances and/or you don't gut run, you don't get a game.

We got smashed in the clearances I agree and we have to improve dramatically in this area, but funnily enough i dont see this as our main issue. It is the second point you mention that has me most concerned- the desire to gut run outside.

I can recall one instance when Bail broke free at the centre gave it off to Trengove at CHF and ran hard to get it again and popped it on the chest of Martin or Clark ( must have been touched because it was then called play on).But what Bail did was win a contest deliver off by hand and then made himself available AGAIN. This was the only time I can remember a player wanting to be involved in multiple passages.

Your point is correct Mono - gut running

We need more player chemistry amongst themselves. It looks like half the team hate each other.

We need more player chemistry amongst themselves. It looks like half the team hate each other.

We have had this issue over the past 4 years, the club has looked to youth and in the process retired delisted players that believed they could go on or should have had more opportunity. There does seem to be a gulf between certain players, this is highlighted by Moloney the B&F winner looking to be traded last year. I keep reading he bleeds Red and Blue if that is the case why entertain the idea of leaving the club?

Expect the club to draft midfielders and mid size defenders this year.

I agree there is something weird going on and well hidden from the bulk of supporters. Whatever stink it is, it was there last season and the season before. And perhaps even back to when the likes of White, Robbo and co were starting to be shoehorned out of the club.

If your right, then that Old woeful culture is still eating the heart out of the 'Club'.

We cannot afford becoming a pensioner village. it s not sustainable at all.

If your right, then that Old woeful culture is still eating the heart out of the 'Club'.

We cannot afford becoming a pensioner village. it s not sustainable at all.

Careful there dee-luded quite a few of us are getting on in years.

Humour us a little

We need some players with passion and pride, not players who are just happy to take home their paycheck each week. The players that took the field on Saturday should really donate their payment to Reach. The effort shown in the second half was appalling and no way to honour a club legend. Each time we have a terrible loss like that, all the players come and say how disappointed they were at the effort put in (see Brad Green on yesterday's Footy Show). How about showing some passion and pride while it is happening and not letting the result be so bad? It was interesting that Brad Green was asked if the Melbourne players really hurt when they lose. His response was that he definitely hurts. It does not look like to me that any of the players are really upset when they lose and I think that's part of the main problem.

We need some players with passion and pride, not players who are just happy to take home their paycheck each week. The players that took the field on Saturday should really donate their payment to Reach. The effort shown in the second half was appalling and no way to honour a club legend. Each time we have a terrible loss like that, all the players come and say how disappointed they were at the effort put in (see Brad Green on yesterday's Footy Show). How about showing some passion and pride while it is happening and not letting the result be so bad? It was interesting that Brad Green was asked if the Melbourne players really hurt when they lose. His response was that he definitely hurts. It does not look like to me that any of the players are really upset when they lose and I think that's part of the main problem.

The thing is, "it does not look to me" is no argument. Green says he hurts a lot, and describes it. We sit up in the grandstand and imagine what is in the players' minds. Obviously we don't know, it's not possible to know on that basis. Is Green a liar? I don't see any reason at all to think so. I strongly doubt it, on the basis of what I know of him.

A lot of us psychoanalyse the players from a distance, informed by our own hurt and disappointment mostly, with no real evidence to go on; of course we do, we are passionate supporters and so on, but we should recognise that this is just pub talk. We don't know. In another thread Neeld's statements are being picked over to try and get a clear picture of his relationship with the players, his outlook and his methods. That's a lot more defensible than presumptions about what's in our players' minds where we have nothing to go on other than how they played. Too big a jump - there could be all sorts of reasons why they don't play well, and when our guesses are contradicted by the statements of the players, there's a bit of a slippery slope for us as supporters if we reject what the player says and go with the conclusions of our own disappointment.

The thing is, "it does not look to me" is no argument. Green says he hurts a lot, and describes it. We sit up in the grandstand and imagine what is in the players' minds. Obviously we don't know, it's not possible to know on that basis. Is Green a liar? I don't see any reason at all to think so. I strongly doubt it, on the basis of what I know of him.

A lot of us psychoanalyse the players from a distance, informed by our own hurt and disappointment mostly, with no real evidence to go on; of course we do, we are passionate supporters and so on, but we should recognise that this is just pub talk. We don't know. In another thread Neeld's statements are being picked over to try and get a clear picture of his relationship with the players, his outlook and his methods. That's a lot more defensible than presumptions about what's in our players' minds where we have nothing to go on other than how they played. Too big a jump - there could be all sorts of reasons why they don't play well, and when our guesses are contradicted by the statements of the players, there's a bit of a slippery slope for us as supporters if we reject what the player says and go with the conclusions of our own disappointment.

May be they are just not good enough.

I used to try as hard as i could but the skill was not there.

No matter how hard a donkey tries he will not win the Melbourne cup.

me too. I was a passionate donkey who got upset every time. The supporters (if there had been any) could've criticised me for a lot of things, but not for having given up.

But are our players really without talent? What if confidence, or some other mental state, is causing them to underperform? Bagging out their native talent (or their effort) isn't going to help... I know we are upset, but analysis of what the problem is must be better than kicking the bucket over in frustration.

What do we need ?

What we need to do is abandon this "Boundary hugging" style of play . Pronto .

It's obsolete . I didn't see any other team do it on the weekend except our team . It worked for a while at Collingwood until they got found out in round 8 last year when they played Geelong the 1st time .

We haven't got the skilled players to pull it off anyway . It's a complete waste of energy and relies on other teams allowing you the space to move the ball "Along the line" .

If we do it again against the Eagles we will get smashed again . And the media will have a field day . I didn't say anything during the nab cup because I wanted to give Neeld the benefit of the doubt .

Six months of planning has gone into a plan that takes 5 minutes to instill ( in all reality ). For goodness sake , any person with half a brain could get an EFL 4th division reserves side to play this way . And it would take 1 pep talk .

It seems Neeld may have seen that type of play "work" at Collingwood and thinks "We'll do that" .

It is not going to work and the sooner we start playing the corridor ( primarily ) the better .

What we need is a coach that can get our team to win the contested possession , win clearances , play as a team by gut running , using handball , short passing , switching play , passing to a leading forward (?) etc etc .

I believe that Mark Neeld can be that coach but he needs to throw the "Boundary hugging style" out the window . Especially with the use of "Long bombs" . It won't work .

Cheers

The thing is, "it does not look to me" is no argument. Green says he hurts a lot, and describes it. We sit up in the grandstand and imagine what is in the players' minds. Obviously we don't know, it's not possible to know on that basis. Is Green a liar? I don't see any reason at all to think so. I strongly doubt it, on the basis of what I know of him.

A lot of us psychoanalyse the players from a distance, informed by our own hurt and disappointment mostly, with no real evidence to go on; of course we do, we are passionate supporters and so on, but we should recognise that this is just pub talk. We don't know. In another thread Neeld's statements are being picked over to try and get a clear picture of his relationship with the players, his outlook and his methods. That's a lot more defensible than presumptions about what's in our players' minds where we have nothing to go on other than how they played. Too big a jump - there could be all sorts of reasons why they don't play well, and when our guesses are contradicted by the statements of the players, there's a bit of a slippery slope for us as supporters if we reject what the player says and go with the conclusions of our own disappointment.

col sylvia and brent moloney have given us an insight into who they are off the field, especially col.

is brad green a liar? don't know but i wonder, if he really didn't hurt after a loss, would he fess up?

especially on national tv

"off the field" - think Ablett senior, Carey, several Rhodes scholars, Flower the timid accountancy student with coke bottle glasses, etc etc. Is off-the-field stuff indicative of their behaviour on the other side of the white line? What about the enigma of Jurrah? Is "who they are" the same as how they feel about their footy, their coach, their poor form? I don't mean to be offensive, but as you say, you "don't know", you are just wondering. I am not prepared to call Brad Green a liar on the basis of my wondering. Hard to see where this sort of disappointment-fueled speculation gets us...

"off the field" - think Ablett senior, Carey, several Rhodes scholars, Flower the timid accountancy student with coke bottle glasses, etc etc. Is off-the-field indicative of their behaviour on the other side of the white line? Is "who they are" the same as how they feel about their footy, their coach, their poor form? I don't mean to be offensive, but as you say, you "don't know", you are just wondering. I am not prepared to call Brad Green a liar on the basis of my wondering. Hard to pursue the speculation...

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