It's been our achilles heel for years. Gameplans, coaches, facilities are nice, but the top sides have sublime foot skills (under pressre) and move it with ease...who could forget watching games in 2008, when you could see the turnover before it happened. We've come a long way since then, but infuriating nonetheless

Agreed, we've definitely improved in this area in the last couple of years. Nathan Jones is one who has impressed me with his improvement in this area, he rarely makes an error at training. Confidence is such a big factor as well, if we get on a roll, it will be amazing how much better our skills will suddenly look. The starts to our games are so important...it's like walking out to the first Tee. Get a good drive off and away you go!

Buzzy, thanks for a realistic report at last. They always look good at training even when they end up bottom of the ladder. People talk about the vibe; it's always good this time of year. Ball usage skills at training should be just about perfect now. The real signs are what they stuff up, not what they do well.

Silly call. I've been playing footy for 12 years now and I'd like to think most posters on here would have enough experience to know the difference between a 'wind affected' kick and a total shank. To help you out, here's some handy tips on how to spot a shank. Ask yourself these simple questions:

1. Is the footy is spinning forwards, not backwards in the air?

2. Does the footy goes at right angles off the boot?

3. Is Cale Morton about to have a shot at an open goal on the run?

SHANKS

You exaggerated the extent of the poor kicking and didn't take into account the conditions. In fact you didn't even mention the conditions during your critique. The two kicks out on the full you highlighted were a direct result of the wind. But you're providing a history lesson on shanks.

Trengove did a complete shank, Blease missed short targets on his left foot, which he continually does, Gysberts spins it the wrong way, but usually hits his targets, Watts kicked over the head of an opponent when kicking out from the backline, Frawley missed one badly, Moloney got too much elevation a couple of times considering the wind, Joel Mac was errant when going wide, Troy Davis made a couple of errors, etc. But in tricky conditions it wasn't a particularly bad kicking session when compared to more favourable conditions and noticeably the coaching staff weren't perturbed.

It's just a pity that most haven't been playing footy for 12 years, unlike your good self.

Buzzy, thanks for a realistic report at last.

How do you know it was a realistic report, you weren't even there.

Hopefully any bad kicks today will be "Shanks for the memories".

I believe Jordie Mc has been injured every pre season so far.

I believe Jordie Mc has been injured every pre season so far.

Poor redheads. So injury prone.

I believe Jordie Mc has been injured every pre season so far.

I believe Neville Jetta has been injured every preseason so far - that's 3 out of 3

I believe Luke Tapscott has been injured every preseason so far - 2 out of 2

I'm not sure who you're responding to, but they and others are worth a mention.

Thanks for the reports. We can only hope their training form translates into game day form. Time will tell.

Okay, I went to training also. I feel that due to being on holidays from work that I've given this board a bit of compensation for my years long worth of banter on this forum. This was my 4th training.

I thought the skills were actually pretty good. Personally, I'd like to see forwards spend an hour per session, just on goal kicking. I think we easily forget how frustrating it is to see anyone miss from 30-40metres out. Anyway, there was a pretty big cross wind which made it tough but from where i was sitting, the skills were pretty good. I was actually standing next to ex-Roo David King who had his AFL prospectus there and some binoculars. He was keeping a keen eye every now and then but really just a casual observe. He also had a look at collingwood for a couple of minutes. Then Wayne Campbell (ex-Tiger) came over and they chatted a bit and then headed off.

Back to training. I know we all like talking about players muscle development. Anyway, I think Jeremy Howe has put on noticeable size yet hasnt lost his spring. And Jack Viney is going to be a 177cm version of chris tarrant. Watts seems about the same to me. Still pretty skinny in the legs. Strauss seems to have put on a lot of weight, he is so wide in the hips and legs and I think he has probably put on 6 or so kilograms after his leg breaking incident. He is looking good. The rookie Williams has arguable the best physique of anyone and I would love to just lock him up in the gym for 2 years and release him to the goal square(fraser Gehrig-style) at the end of it. A perfect full forwards body.

Gysberts is still skinny in the arms but has pretty solid legs. Looks one of our most athletic players even though he lacks endurance. Jones, Moloney, Sylvia all look great. in the match-simulation drill Bate was in the midfield which confirmed what we all already knew. I'm not sold on Sellar, he isn't the most skilful guy in the team but if he can be 3rd man up while Frawley is wrestling with his gorilla then he will do his job. I think Cook cops a lot of flack on this board too. He is a natural reader of the play, has sticky hands and elite foot skills. He will definitely make it. No worry in the world. Troy Davis and Fitzgerald won't in my opinion. Both due to lack of foot skills.

T.McDonald will be a great player but despite playing his junior footy up forward, I believe he is a backmen. I hope the coaches reaslise this sooner than later. Petterd is in for a massive year, provided he can remain injury free. Him and Jurrah will be in the 50metre arc all year.

I'm also no rocket scientist but surely the reason why Tapscott is always injured is because he is so top heavy. He probably needs to shed a few kilograms, just so he can stay on the park.

Josh Tynan I am yet to see drop a mark. I think he has the worlds stickiest hands and this is what i'm most excited about. I think his kicking needs to improve but his marking is top shelf.

Anyway, now that pre-season training is over. My top 5 trainers go to:

1. Howe (leader in skills and has shown the most results of gym work)

2. Jones (Done every session and is a front runner at training. Bail unlucky)

3. T.Mcdonald (would've liked to see him put on a bit more upper body muscle though)

4. Bate (could arguably go number 1. Dropped probably 6 kgs. Huge effort, shows commitment. Troy Davis has also worked hard, losing a lot of weight.

5. Moloney (hasn't missed a session)

Unlucky: Bartram (put on some extra muscle), Petterd (looking mighty fit), Tynan (mark my words, his arms are going to be as big as Frawley's when he gets older)

My worst 5 pre-seasons, (for whatever reason) go to:

1. Jurrah (injury)

2. Davey (injury, he needs another re-invention. hopefully back to the forward line)

3. Tapscott (everyone's favourite player, but sadly, hasn't done much)

4. Mckenzie (a very important player that struggles to get on the park)

5. Sylvia (has been in the rehab group a fair bit, but I think he will be in for a huge year.HAve we ever said that about Colin before though.

Okay, that's it

Great stuff Freak.

Thanks for the report.

Cheers guys.....

I didn't go to training but I can say that everyone is training really well. LJ is still in rehab but getting closer, Grimes is in rehab to manage loads as he can't handle loads. Jones is really looking good, Howe has great hands and Sellar is a big boy. Everyone really loves having JT as Captain and he trains super well.

Cut and paste for any trainig session!

Hey guys, Got down to training this morning so here are a few observations ... • Overall the intensity of the session was really good players looked really switched on; • Ricky Petterd looked really sharp with his skills as did JB; • Cale Morton, despite all the shite he gets, was working hard and did quite well in the contested ball situations. In the match simulation drills and he definitely looks a bit bigger and stronger; • Lucas Cook and Jack Watts' kicking are terrific to watch; • the rehab group was the same, LJ completed a part of the main session which was good he is looking fit and skillful as ever, JV ran a whole heap of laps and looks like he could step into our midfield this season, shame we have to wait; • Jack Grimes didn't train with the main group obviously managing his loads carefully • James Sellar did a lot of the kicking out in the match simulation and I reckon he will play round 1 • one of the drills was focusing on blocking for each other against the opposition, a real area that needed work after last season; • Trenners' new nickname from the boys is skip of course, as always he is so professional with everything he does has that follow me aura about him! Can't wait for the intraclub next Friday! Happy to answer questions.

Both of these statements are very good to hear. I hope Cook can put on some size and be able to have a bit of an impact in 2013.

I'm also looking forward to seeing Morton play this year...I'm predicting some improvement from him. I think he'll make it.

Freak your usually a hard marker when it comes to skills so it's good to hear you thought they were ok.

I noticed Nicholson was not in your top preseason performers. I know you can't fit them all in but any reason for that?

Okay, I went to training also. I feel that due to being on holidays from work that I've given this board a bit of compensation for my years long worth of banter on this forum. This was my 4th training.

I thought the skills were actually pretty good. Personally, I'd like to see forwards spend an hour per session, just on goal kicking. I think we easily forget how frustrating it is to see anyone miss from 30-40metres out. Anyway, there was a pretty big cross wind which made it tough but from where i was sitting, the skills were pretty good. I was actually standing next to ex-Roo David King who had his AFL prospectus there and some binoculars. He was keeping a keen eye every now and then but really just a casual observe. He also had a look at collingwood for a couple of minutes. Then Wayne Campbell (ex-Tiger) came over and they chatted a bit and then headed off.

Back to training. I know we all like talking about players muscle development. Anyway, I think Jeremy Howe has put on noticeable size yet hasnt lost his spring. And Jack Viney is going to be a 177cm version of chris tarrant. Watts seems about the same to me. Still pretty skinny in the legs. Strauss seems to have put on a lot of weight, he is so wide in the hips and legs and I think he has probably put on 6 or so kilograms after his leg breaking incident. He is looking good. The rookie Williams has arguable the best physique of anyone and I would love to just lock him up in the gym for 2 years and release him to the goal square(fraser Gehrig-style) at the end of it. A perfect full forwards body.

Gysberts is still skinny in the arms but has pretty solid legs. Looks one of our most athletic players even though he lacks endurance. Jones, Moloney, Sylvia all look great. in the match-simulation drill Bate was in the midfield which confirmed what we all already knew. I'm not sold on Sellar, he isn't the most skilful guy in the team but if he can be 3rd man up while Frawley is wrestling with his gorilla then he will do his job. I think Cook cops a lot of flack on this board too. He is a natural reader of the play, has sticky hands and elite foot skills. He will definitely make it. No worry in the world. Troy Davis and Fitzgerald won't in my opinion. Both due to lack of foot skills.

T.McDonald will be a great player but despite playing his junior footy up forward, I believe he is a backmen. I hope the coaches reaslise this sooner than later. Petterd is in for a massive year, provided he can remain injury free. Him and Jurrah will be in the 50metre arc all year.

I'm also no rocket scientist but surely the reason why Tapscott is always injured is because he is so top heavy. He probably needs to shed a few kilograms, just so he can stay on the park.

Josh Tynan I am yet to see drop a mark. I think he has the worlds stickiest hands and this is what i'm most excited about. I think his kicking needs to improve but his marking is top shelf.

Anyway, now that pre-season training is over. My top 5 trainers go to:

1. Howe (leader in skills and has shown the most results of gym work)

2. Jones (Done every session and is a front runner at training. Bail unlucky)

3. T.Mcdonald (would've liked to see him put on a bit more upper body muscle though)

4. Bate (could arguably go number 1. Dropped probably 6 kgs. Huge effort, shows commitment. Troy Davis has also worked hard, losing a lot of weight.

5. Moloney (hasn't missed a session)

Unlucky: Bartram (put on some extra muscle), Petterd (looking mighty fit), Tynan (mark my words, his arms are going to be as big as Frawley's when he gets older)

My worst 5 pre-seasons, (for whatever reason) go to:

1. Jurrah (injury)

2. Davey (injury, he needs another re-invention. hopefully back to the forward line)

3. Tapscott (everyone's favourite player, but sadly, hasn't done much)

4. Mckenzie (a very important player that struggles to get on the park)

5. Sylvia (has been in the rehab group a fair bit, but I think he will be in for a huge year.HAve we ever said that about Colin before though.

Okay, that's it

Great report and summary-I was talking to JCB last night whom thought your ratings were reasonably accurate.

I think Grimes is in Rehab, because being a co captain now.

They need an expert in Rehabilitation to help get the crocks up and running. ha ha ha.

Freak your usually a hard marker when it comes to skills so it's good to hear you thought they were ok.

I noticed Nicholson was not in your top preseason performers. I know you can't fit them all in but any reason for that?

Nah Nicholson could have definitely been in there. I guess, he is still on the rookie list though right? so i left him out

Great report and summary-I was talking to JCB last night whom thought your ratings were reasonably accurate.

Wait, who is JCB?

Cheers guys.....

+1

Good report Freak.

Just to add ...

I paid pretty close attention to Sellar and I thought he looked good. He manned up on Clark and held his own. At one point they reversed the roles and he became the forward and Clark the backman and he took a good mark in front under pressure.

Sellar is big, agile and a looked to have a nice kick. Apparently he lacked consistency at Adelaide and they through him around a bit. I don't think he's a third backman, for me he's a key back. I hope he can settle there and play a role. He really could be an inspired pick-up. If he can claim a position it will immensely improve the structure of our team.

Clark is also unbelievably agile for a 200cm tall. And he's quick. Nice kick also. Hopefully the days of us looking like pygmies are over - statistically we now have the tallest list.

As everyone knows the midfield will determine our fate in 2012 - and injuries.

- statistically we now have the tallest list.

How does that work? Add 'em all up? Average? Top 5 tallest players?

Just curious where that statement of fact came from...

The AFL prospectus lists us as the tallest list.

How does that work? Add 'em all up? Average? Top 5 tallest players?

Just curious where that statement of fact came from...

You need to read more.

You need to read more.

Maybe you need to write more - like stating where your 'fact' came from.