correct, however you cant honestly tell me that if you were Brad Green you wouldnt be slighty disenchanted

Green was an epic fail as captain, why on earth would you keep him in the leadership group?

Maybe, but it depends. Green may have indicated he would prefer to focus on his footy and didn't want to be in the glare of leadership. I dunno.

Moloney is a bit harder to figure out

I worry a little how Aaron will take it

Seems all those dropped were all captain or co-vice-captains. Maybe a clean slate was seen as more harmonious

I don't think we will ever get the true non-spin picture

I hope the coaches sat down with all those dropped from the LG/©/(VC) and sorted it out amicably

Good observation I Think DC.

I think that link is the breaking of the past culture & gamestyles/cultures, see Bruce. Go sideways & backwards, & round & round when full of self doubt. Don't trust anyone.

I think this is the New Age Dee coming through, and I wonder if those more mature are being laundered with GWS & Free Agency all about us. I would think Neeld has ambitions of a 10 Yr reign in mind & I'm certain our list & club rebuild is an ongoing process now for him. (Malthouse took, what 10 Yrs @ the Pise, to turn the over & around) At least we are 4 Yrs into our rebuild.

2014, Grimes & Trenners will be what, 25Yrs & 23Yrs? With 5 Years of Elite footy to move ahead with 'til 2019... I think we'll still do a lot of trading & list build over the next 3 Years.

There goes the Neighborhood (old),,, & here comes the New.

An aspect of the young Captains and young LG could be to "lock them in" for the long haul, ie get them to fully commit to the club so that contracts become a formality? perhaps they thought Jamar, frawleyand Co could do with an extra pat on the back so they didnt shop their next contracts around?

Maybe, but it depends. Green may have indicated he would prefer to focus on his footy and didn't want to be in the glare of leadership. I dunno.

Moloney is a bit harder to figure out

I worry a little how Aaron will take it

Seems all those dropped were all captain or co-vice-captains. Maybe a clean slate was seen as more harmonious

I don't think we will ever get the true non-spin picture

I hope the coaches sat down with all those dropped from the LG/©/(VC) and sorted it out amicably

DC, out of this leadership group, I can't see any who will do a Fox Trot out there, or have a Whinge or a Tanti @ their teamates. Pretty much Doers, who just Get On With It. Maturity & Composure, & discipline.

Some players are just born leaders and it doesn't matter whether they are any good on the field.

Two years ago, when Jack Grimes was 20 and injured, I met with some very high ranking people at the club about a different matter. I was told then that Grimes missed out on a leadership group by a whisker. At 20 and having played less than 20 games. Some people have it, and some people don't.

Bartram clearly has it by the bucket loads, and it has nothing to do with his talent.

When guys like Davey are picked into the leadership group, you think, well of course, they are so bloody talented. And then you realise how terrible a decision it is to choose a leader based on their talent ranking.

Davey, Green, Bruce, Yze... I can go on. All damn good players. All damn poor leaders.

Junior, average player, brilliant leader.

An aspect of the young Captains and young LG could be to "lock them in" for the long haul, ie get them to fully commit to the club so that contracts become a formality? perhaps they thought Jamar, frawleyand Co could do with an extra pat on the back so they didnt shop their next contracts around?

a little Machiavellian mate.

They might also be just the guys for the job.

DC, out of this leadership group, I can't see any who will do a Fox Trot out there, or have a Whinge or a Tanti @ their teamates. Pretty much Doers, who just Get On With It. Maturity & Composure, & discipline.

yeah, i don't have any problems. it's risky but I think it might just work

I really hope Moloney, Green, and Davey take this not as a setback but as a new challenge, they might feel they have something to prove and hopefully it'll drive them to perform.

Flash was always going to be dropped out of the group, however someone earlier in the thread asked why he was in in the first place, my guess would be that at the time (and I'm sure still currently) he was a real leader to the indigenous players at our club, playing a very similar role to what Wrecker used to do. Unfortunately it didn't translate out onto the field but that doesn't mean he wasn't/isn't a bad mentor to those playes.

Beamer I really see as a guy that doesn't need a title to lead, it is still curious as to why he doesn't have the title but don't think it'll change or hurt the way he plays.

Green I reckon will be freed up by not having to worry about his actions as captain, his best football is behind him but I reckon he'll be ok.

Some of the selections are very interesting, the Clark one is probably the most intriguing. Something that is worth noting is the fact that they have both into the club fresh, so when Neeled was saying that it was a clean slate he meant it, as far as he was concerned Clark was on the exact same footing as say Beamer.

It will be a very interesting leadership group to watch this year.

yeah, i don't have any problems. it's risky but I think it might just work

The only one I'm concerned for is Moloney.

Green IMO will see out his career with Us, I think.

Others may look elsewhere.

I hope Moloney can have an illustrious career, in the Red & Blue going forward.

These are Neelds corner stones for his foundations of his, 'House that Jack Built'.

Glad they've found something for Bartram to do. Just don't give the ball to him and we'll be right.I don't see him playing out the season. Having said that we also need leaders at Casey.

Personally believe the wiser decision would have been to wait on Trengove and Grimes. Very little to be gained and a considerable amount could be lost in their development. Neeld has unneccessarily risked his judgement at such an early stage. I like so much about what he has done. This team of leaders I question. Craig's judgement on Sellar is his soft point.

'Leadership' isn't just about what happens on the footy field. The game these days is a seven day a week proposition and leadership has to be exhibited in all facets of the 'game'. Congratulations to the Captains Jack, and in particular to Clint Bartram.

It's amazing how Bartram has suddenly gone from whipping boy to 'one of the first picked' in lieu of this promotion. I love a battler as much as the next fan but until his heart-in-your-gob disposal improves (doubtful at this stage of his career) I view his position in the leadership group as much a Casey as a senior side role.

Harsh RR, give me a 'tries his guts out back pocket' anyday of the week at any level. not sure if you noticed these last 2 years he has taken 'wheels' spot in the side - all guts and determination, his disposal will occasioanally let him down, no more than anyone else in the side- you just notice it more due to the position on the ground, I'd trust him there more than pretty much anyone else we have to play the Small defender role. And yes if I was coach he'd probably be first picked - no quests asked he picks up the small forward, not many other role players at the club that pick themselves - everyone else depends on matchups and how we want to set up. Barty may not the most skilled, fittest (although he is one of the fittest at the club) I can't se anyone overtaking him in the short term for the small defender role, the only other options - bennell ( hmmm... Yeah NAH, Tappy - future lies as a midfielder, ??? - no one ele)

The only one I'm concerned for is Moloney.

Green IMO will see out his career with Us, I think.

Others may look elsewhere.

I hope Moloney can have an illustrious career, in the Red & Blue going forward.

These are Neelds corner stones for his foundations of his, 'House that Jack Built'.

I agree with this. I hope Brent's not too upset, and that he continues to deliver his heart and soul commitment to the club for the rest of his career. I'm sure he will.

Bartram's an interesting elevation. I had a feeling he'd be a roughy for inclusion in the leadership group. This was essentially based on comments I've read over the past 4 months or so, and my perception of what Neeld seems to respect in players. In particular, he seems to like players who don't take anything for granted, and who show empathy and respect for others (ie, those who are not so 'me' obsessed).

That said, I'm very surprised Moloney didn't get a gig in the leadership group. I had thought he was a certainty.

Perhaps some of the older players are a bit disconnected from the rest of the group. And given the relative youth of the group, that wouldn't be a good thing as it is a very young list with the majority of players probably being 23 and younger. Hence, the very young leadership group and the absence of older players in it (Jamar aside).

Harsh RR, give me a 'tries his guts out back pocket' anyday of the week at any level. not sure if you noticed these last 2 years he has taken 'wheels' spot in the side - all guts and determination, his disposal will occasionally let him down, no more than anyone else in the side- you just notice it more due to the position on the ground, I'd trust him there more than pretty much anyone else we have to play the Small defender role. And yes if I was coach he'd probably be first picked - no quests asked he picks up the small forward, not many other role players at the club that pick themselves - everyone else depends on matchups and how we want to set up. Barty may not the most skilled, fittest (although he is one of the fittest at the club) I can't se anyone overtaking him in the short term for the small defender role, the only other options - bennell ( hmmm... Yeah NAH, Tappy - future lies as a midfielder, ??? - no one ele)

I just can't agree with you on the highlighted part Jako. I hope he can prove the knockers wrong this year but those back half clangers are - to put it bluntly - momentum killers. Aspiring top four sides can't accept this kind of deficiency. Have a look at the back sixes at the Pies, Hawks and Cats. Most are pinpoint by foot and the ones that aren't are line-breakers who can roost it 60m at full tilt.

Some players are just born leaders and it doesn't matter whether they are any good on the field.

Two years ago, when Jack Grimes was 20 and injured, I met with some very high ranking people at the club about a different matter. I was told then that Grimes missed out on a leadership group by a whisker. At 20 and having played less than 20 games. Some people have it, and some people don't.

Bartram clearly has it by the bucket loads, and it has nothing to do with his talent.

When guys like Davey are picked into the leadership group, you think, well of course, they are so bloody talented. And then you realise how terrible a decision it is to choose a leader based on their talent ranking.

Davey, Green, Bruce, Yze... I can go on. All damn good players. All damn poor leaders.

Junior, average player, brilliant leader.

A great analysis Jaded. Its the same as 'great players don't necessarily make great coaches'. leadership is somehting special - Lyon, Viney, McDonald, Stynes, Barassi - Voss etc etc

Neeld said after the Sylvia incident that he had a clean slate and that indiscretions in the past meant nothing to him. So we then have to assume that moloneys demotion from the LG had nothing to do with his late night out. Don't we?

Neeld said after the Sylvia incident that he had a clean slate and that indiscretions in the past meant nothing to him. So we then have to assume that moloneys demotion from the LG had nothing to do with his late night out. Don't we?

Then you also have to assume that his previous good leadership actions were also wiped clean.

Then you also have to assume that his previous good leadership actions were also wiped clean.

Exactly. The assumption is that his leadership qualities were based upon what he has shown over the last 4 1/2 months. I'm a big fan and only hope that he instigated the change

I agree with this. I hope Brent's not too upset, and that he continues to deliver his heart and soul commitment to the club for the rest of his career. I'm sure he will.

Bartram's an interesting elevation. I had a feeling he'd be a roughy for inclusion in the leadership group. This was essentially based on comments I've read over the past 4 months or so, and my perception of what Neeld seems to respect in players. In particular, he seems to like players who don't take anything for granted, and who show empathy and respect for others (ie, those who are not so 'me' obsessed).

That said, I'm very surprised Moloney didn't get a gig in the leadership group. I had thought he was a certainty.

Perhaps some of the older players are a bit disconnected from the rest of the group. And given the relative youth of the group, that wouldn't be a good thing as it is a very young list with the majority of players probably being 23 and younger. Hence, the very young leadership group and the absence of older players in it (Jamar aside).

So am I. That what makes me think we are beginning the cleanout of 'old ideas & customs/cultures', at the birth of the Neeld reign. Thats Not to say Moloney is finished. Far from it.

But I think Neelds way is a more sophisticated yet, 'black & white' gamestyle, where more composure & thought and Less over the top Passion is required to perfect it.

Overly emotional leaders could inadvertently put undue pressure on those following to 'get it together' so to speak. Rather than supportive learning techniques that allow the mind to explore the subtleties of the gameplan, ending in a thorough understanding & intuitive responses to It.

I think I read it took the Pies a few years to perfect their gameplan. Thats a bit of learning.

This old proverb rings very true about the leadership changes at our footy club:

"If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got"

Well done Mark Neeld!

What makes anyone think Moloney is a good leader?

Player, yes, leader, no.

Oh, wait... I forgot - he bleeds red & blue.

I am sure Batram is made in the mould of JMac, but is that enough when you are not as blessed in the skills dept?

So I was having a beer late yesterday at the Royal Saxon in Richmond (not a bad pub) with my Brother when we decide to toast the new captains and leadership group. We also decided to write down our best 22, which we usually do on the back of a coaster about this time every year. Alas, they didn't have any coasters, but we were able to improvise. We started at the back pocket, but, for my Brother Bartram wasn't a consideration. I said, you better pen his name down because he'll be in the team. He was horrified because as some others here point out his kicking is most definitely a liability. But I persisted.

I said to my Brother, how often do you see Bartam lose a contest ? He said, not often. I said, how often does he get beaten one-on-one ? He said, not often. I said, how often do you see him get goals kicked on him ? He said, not often. I said, what's his pace like when covering small forwards ? He said, pretty good. I said what sort of tackler is he ? He said, yeah good. But then he said, you can't have someone with his kicking skills coming out of the back-line. I said, I agree that it's an issue, but I believe that Neeld's game-plan will be far kinder to Bartam than Bailey's. Bailey relied on low percentage pinpoint passing that was hardly conducive to Bartam's game. Neeld's game-plan relies heavily on winning contested footy, dishing it off quickly to play makers, or scrapping a kick along the boundary line and starting again. Neeld's game-plan relies on protecting space and dictating where the game is going to played. Far more than ever Melb will be attempting to play the game on their terms. Neeld is far from stupid and he knows Bartam's deficiencies, but he also knows his strengths and the coach and player will work to utilise those strengths and minimise those weaknesses.

I'll reserve judgment until the season proper, but I can see why Bartram could be a valuable and tough little bastard under Neeld's direction. Pound for pound Bartram is also one of the strongest at the club. Some, including Range Rover, think he'll be a club leader, but mainly down at Casey, I disagree.

What makes anyone think Moloney is a good leader?

Player, yes, leader, no.

Ever bothered going to training Lutz/E25? I know there's no point in bringing any reason to your contradictarian posts, but just thought I'd put it out there