James Frawley a forward?

[Ivor 7]

Never say never.

Best ever CHB one David Neitz to FF

Who would have thought?

Neita joined as a forward in '93, played one season in the backline in '94 (and did pretty well) and then reverted forward into the hole created by David Schwartz sub-optimal knees.

[Barney Rubble 1,576]

Neita joined as a forward in '93, played one season in the backline in '94 (and did pretty well) and then reverted forward into the hole created by David Schwartz sub-optimal knees.

I think everyone is missing the point.

Players are trained these days to be versatile in a number of positions.

Frawley has been training with the forwards so that he will know what the game plan required if for some reason he is required to fill that forward spot during a game or if we have a bad run of injuries and lose Clark, Howe, McDonald, or Watts.

As I say Never say never.

[rjay 23,929]

I think everyone is missing the point.

Players are trained these days to be versatile in a number of positions.

Frawley has been training with the forwards so that he will know what the game plan required if for some reason he is required to fill that forward spot during a game or if we have a bad run of injuries and lose Clark, Howe, McDonald, or Watts.

As I say Never say never.

I think our match day coaching in the past has been too rigid, when something wasn't working we stuck with the same plan and got the same result, it didn't work.

I see Frawley as the cornerstone of our defence however that doesn't mean he shouldn't be moved forward on match day from time if we need to generate some momentum. Even the full back of the century was known to move forward occasionally and to great effect.

Edited January 29, 2012 by rjay

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

I think our match day coaching in the past has been too rigid, when something wasn't working we stuck with the same plan and got the same result, it didn't work.

I see Frawley as the cornerstone of our defence however that doesn't mean he shouldn't be moved forward on match day from time if we need to generate some momentum. Even the full back of the century was known to move forward occasionally and to great effect.

Definition of insanity.....

[Scoop Junior 2,991]

To draw examples from Bob's posting on the training thread you'd play Scarlett, Fisher, Reid and Fletcher on the most dangerous opposition forward for their defensive capabilities rather than using Lonergan, Dawson, Tarrant and Hooker in these roles? I think there's a reason why Sellar came to the club and it's not for depth. Beau Wilkes was picked by St.Kilda for similar reasons. Sellar doesn't have to be "gun tall defender", he just has to be adequate.

Old I don't necessarily think that those examples are particularly relevant to our current circumstances.

Firstly, Reid and Fisher are not their respective sides' best tall defender.

As for Tarrant taking the most dangerous opposition forward as opposed to Reid, well I think that's because Tarrant is a more experienced and (currently) better key defender than Reid. He also has the body to match the number one opposition tall. If you were coaching Collingwood, who would you select as your number one tall defender?

Sam Fisher to me is not really a one-on-one defender. He has always played as an attacking backman, a player who likes to peel off and take intercept marks and then rebound with excellent foot skills. He defends more like Rivers than Frawley. I don't think he's ever been regarded at St Kilda as their 'go to' tall defender and rarely (apart from injuries) has he been asked to be the primary tall defender.

As for Scarlett, I think you're only looking at the last few years when Scarlett has been the wrong side of 30. For 10 years he was the number 1 Geelong defender, regularly picking up the big names. I remember going down to KP on a number of occasions during the 2000's and watching Scarlett towel up Neitz. He plays a different role now but I don't think it should be ignored that for the majority of his career he was the number 1 tall back at Geelong who played on the number 1 tall forward.

I also think that Scarlett and Fisher kick the ball better than Frawley and are more dangerous offensively.

I understand that Dawson and Lonergan are no more than 'adequate' tall defenders and have done the job for their teams on the number 1 forward. But Dawson was playing in a side that pushed numbers back to support and played a defensive brand of footy as good as any in recent times. Lonergan too is part of a team that has one of the best midfields and backlines in recent times. Using Dawson or Lonergan as our number one tall defender last year would have been a very different story – IMO they would have been terribly exposed.

At the moment our team is not strong enough in midfield or defence to afford an 'adequate' player as our number one tall defender. Hopefully if we can develop a midfield and backline as good as Geelong's or a defensive capability as strong as St Kilda's then we can afford this 'adequate' defender. It's a luxury I'm not sure we can afford at the moment.

[DemonWA 3,453]

nice post scoop junior

one of my pet hates is when people try to fit our side into the mould of geelongs or collingwoods best 22.

Our player are not exactley like their players, we wont ever be carbon copies so why try to say Frawley is "our scarlett" or "sellar can be our dawson"

[old55 21,378]

Old I don't necessarily think that those examples are particularly relevant to our current circumstances.

...

I understand that Dawson and Lonergan are no more than 'adequate' tall defenders and have done the job for their teams on the number 1 forward. But Dawson was playing in a side that pushed numbers back to support and played a defensive brand of footy as good as any in recent times. Lonergan too is part of a team that has one of the best midfields and backlines in recent times. Using Dawson or Lonergan as our number one tall defender last year would have been a very different story – IMO they would have been terribly exposed.

At the moment our team is not strong enough in midfield or defence to afford an 'adequate' player as our number one tall defender. Hopefully if we can develop a midfield and backline as good as Geelong's or a defensive capability as strong as St Kilda's then we can afford this 'adequate' defender. It's a luxury I'm not sure we can afford at the moment.

I'm really talking about a premiership winning structure - that's what we're here for. We need to maximise our strengths and I think if we can free Frawley to play an attacking role in the backline that will give us a real boost. It might be the difference between top 4 and flag.

[mordja 187]

Hate to end the dream guys but was at the AGM tonight and said hi to Neeld after. Someone asked about Chip as a FWD and to quote the coach "He looks like a forward doesn't he? ....but have u seen him kick? (implying for goal)" . MN quickly said, "I think he'll be down back"

I won't go into the muppet lecturing the coach on who should be captain and telling Neeld that he "Was only giving his opinion and didn't want his thoughts" when Mark went to reply.

Ludicous crazy member town makes all look stupid again.

Craig was very interesting, very focused, very happy playing second fiddle and adding value to Mark.

[rpfc 27,539]

Hate to end the dream guys but was at the AGM tonight and said hi to Neeld after. Someone asked about Chip as a FWD and to quote the coach "He looks like a forward doesn't he? ....but have u seen him kick? (implying for goal)" . MN quickly said, "I think he'll be down back"

I won't go into the muppet lecturing the coach on who should be captain and telling Neeld that he "Was only giving his opinion and didn't want his thoughts" when Mark went to reply.

Ludicous crazy member town makes all look stupid again.

Craig was very interesting, very focused, very happy playing second fiddle and adding value to Mark.

Who did the guy think should be captain?

[Nasher 33,129]

I won't go into the muppet lecturing the coach on who should be captain and telling Neeld that he "Was only giving his opinion and didn't want his thoughts" when Mark went to reply.

Ludicous crazy member town makes all look stupid again.

Knows better than the coach, obviously. I hate it when people use the device at the lower front of their face when given a rare and golden opportunity to use the ones at the side (and depriving me of the opportunity to do so too).

[Damo 3,000]

Theories about how Sellar can help out down back, releasing Frawley seem similar to those about Warnock. Wasnt he supposed to mind the gorillas as well? He hardly got a game. I see Sellar as backup.

[Pablo 0]

Frawley has got to stay primarily as a back. He is one of the best going around.

I would like to know any of your thoughts on Jack Watts playing on the wing this season, while he is still trim and agile. Very tough match up for opposition. Great endurance and mobility, excellent field kicking and can drift forward to take a mark and kick a goal. I like the idea, even just for one season. Start big Stef Martin at CHF possibly with Tom McDonald coming in there occasionally.

let me know your thoughts.

[mordja 187]

Who did the guy think should be captain?

Beamer.

Whether or not I agree with that, wasnt really the issue. The lecture he was trying to give Neeld on "taking the soft option and not picking Green because he was soft" made the half dozen people around us visibly cringe. (NB - I disagree with his position on Green being soft but whatever...again not the point).

but FMD the winner was when Neeld tried to say something logical in reply to him he interrupted him and said "I don't want to hear your answer, I was just giving you my opinion". !!!!?????

God forbid we actually hear what the coach is thinking.

Neeld handled it alright and just gave him that "sure Numpty, whatever you say" look. But it detracted from what could have been an interesting insight for us.

As I say, Craig was the highlight. Seemed very very happy to be there, wanted to get across that although the guys may have looked apathetic last year, it simply wasn't the case. He firmly believed they have "bought in" to the new lot of coaches and the game plan and wanted to prove themselves. (obviously you could argue the why now rather than last year angle)

He took the time to explain that there was scoreboard pressure which was on the whole club, but he believed that competition for the 21+1 was far more motivating for the players now than it was last year (seems obvious i suppose). His point was that these kids can see that they wont be getting easy rides from now. Magner has absolutely ginormous arms and Couch is very well built with Sellar somewhere in between so these blokes are physically ready (even if lower skill sets). He implied that the 8 new bodies would be clambering for their chance on the field and would push the other players harder.

FWIW he thought JT was a class act, was very young but similar to Dangerfield when I put it to him in that way.

Sorry if that was disjointed.

Edited to be closer to English.

Edited February 2, 2012 by mordja