Sylvia gone too ??

[old55 23,572]

That is just self serving crap.......one game.....you could give that message and still have played them....but noone expects that the club is going to come out and say...."we over reacted, and we looked a lot worse because we didn't have you out there on the weekend"

Why did he get dropped then if it wasn't because he plays selfish football and doesn't play to instructions - you've pointed out elsewhere his good stats - there must be some problem.

Just let the talented ones do whatever they want?

[Real Demon 232]

Well how about we get away fronm the idea hes ever really been up on form !!

Okay, so unless he is playing like Judd, Hodge etc he is continually falling short is he?

The suugestion that he would rip it up in other top teams suggests he really hasnt the A game himself but would rely on others giving him a leg up. Yeah I want to throw money at thatkind of p;layer.....Theyre called.. 1st class passnegers.

He is already performing at a solid level in a very average team.......like Leigh Brown at the Pies.....better team better performance!

Seems odd to me that a player in the 'negotiating " frame isnt even able to get himself flying to self promote. This has been a past ploy of Bruce, Green, Davey, Robbo and OOze. Green also unable to show any form in a contract year.( this time_..but he has other worries. Slyvia hasnt...just needs to go out and 'rip it up"...but cant

Has shown good form over the past few seasons, and should expect an improved deal as a result

People need to stop comparing him within our own team. Our team is riddled with holes. Compare Col to the outside world for a more robust assessment. and monetary level.

Do you even know what he is asking for??????? Put Col in a position to entertain the outside world, and the market will dictate what he is worth......he would be very well sought after! And letting him go just adds one more hole to our team!

Hes not a midfielder. He an outside running flanker.

That up until the weekend, led the team in tackles

If Colin isnt the player the club wants...afterr 8 seasons, then the way forward is to get a player the club wants.

cant make silk out of a sours ear as they say..He is what he is....and always has been . A player dogged by inconsistent efforts despite having talent.

Has made considerable improvements in consistency over the past few seasons........not unlike Daniel Wells who was drafted a year before him, and has only this season found consistency

Bit like the school kids report. Has ability , needs to apply himself. its that simple. He has it, he doesnt do it. Has it all before him ....and doesnt.

No, he actually does perform, but clearly not to your expectations. From where he has been to where he is now is a big improvement..........will he ever be a Judd or Hodge, not a chance, but he can still be a very important part of the team in the future

A lot of people need to step back and observe our team and its constituent players a little more dispassionately and see many for what they are. Overpaid and underachieving.

I have no problem doing that at all, and if you look at my original post, I never said throw the MFC vault at him, simply that he is important, and we need to keep him, as I don't believe more speculative draft picks are the answer right now

It hurts to do so as many consider anyone in a Melbourne jumper beyond reproach. Theyre just footy players doing a job. Some not that well. Others beyond their reward.

Well I don't, but I do consider Sylvia an important player going forward. We don't know what he is on, and we don't know what he is after to even begin to make an assessment of whether he is or isn't overpaid.

Id like to be giving the likes of Jordie and Watts , Trennerrs , Gys etc some of the money that some of the "prima donnas " are getting under false pretences. Thses guys have only a couple of seasons behind them..and consisently put in....a concept Col wouldt know.

How about we move to retain real team players... real contributors...not the pretenders.

The stats listed earlier show he is putting in consistently, so not sure why you keep going down this path, and paying any player who contributes should absolutely be paid accordingly

But there'll be a truck load of excuses no doubt , for Col...and all they are is that...excuses.

I don't think there are excuses to be made, you just clearly have a different perspective on his performance to me, and subsequent value

[Retrospective 104]

Why did he get dropped then if it wasn't because he plays selfish football and doesn't play to instructions - you've pointed out elsewhere his good stats - there must be some problem.

Just let the talented ones do whatever they want?

I think you'll understand..... if you think quite hard about it....... that my contention is that he shouldn't have been dropped..... see how that works.... I DISAGREE with the decision to drop him and Jurrah, think it was poor timing, selected 2 players as scapegoats for a season that is in tatters.

let's see if he stays, and if/ when he goes you can cheer on the next callow 70kg youth we throw out there as part of our rolling 50 year plan for greatness.... before you call for us to get rid of him 8 yrs later

[Retrospective 104]

I'll risk that !! lol

The notion some think he's in the top 3 is with all repsect laughable.

Here's a quick list of those ahead of him

Watts, Trengove, Mckenzie, Frawley,Garland, Jamar, Martin

Dogged pursuit ?? Hardly. I simply refuse to lay down to those who'l continually make all the excuses under the sun for underperformers.

Be careful of stats. If you'll care to annalyse them you'll see his amasses most against lesser opposition.. and few against real pressure. Hes a junk time king.

Im happy and waiting for him to show me completely wrong.

Touche' and accolades on your determination......but please McKenzie (33games)? Martin (46games)? a little too much absinthe for breakfast perhaps?

Edited August 9, 2011 by Retrospective

[beelzebub 23,370]

As youve taken the time..so will I

Well how about weget away fronm the idea hes ever really been up on form !!

Okay, so unless he is playing like Judd, Hodge etc heis continually falling short is he?

Hesnot playing up to his own ability let alone a Judd !!

The suugestion that he would rip it up in other top teams suggests he reallyhasnt the A game himself but would rely on others giving him a leg up. Yeah Iwant to throw money at thatkind of p;layer.....Theyre called.. 1st classpassnegers.

He is already performing at a solid level in a veryaverage team.......like Leigh Brown at the Pies.....better team betterperformance!

Solid ? Hes hardly been seen in the tougher games. So by your inference if he remains with us ( and we're likely to remain a bit averagefor a while ) then he too will remain underperforming. What he cant raise thebar himself ?? Thats quality !!

Seems odd to me that a player in the 'negotiating " frame isnt even ableto get himself flying to self promote. This has been a past ploy of Bruce,Green, Davey, Robbo and OOze. Green also unable to show any form in a contractyear.( this time_..but he has other worries. Slyvia hasnt...just needs to goout and 'rip it up"...but cant

Has shown good form over the past few seasons, and shouldexpect an improved deal as a result

Afalse premise.. Hes shown form in spurts..thats all. Dont over dress reality

People need to stop comparing him within our own team. Our team is riddled withholes. Compare Col to the outside world for a more robust assessment. andmonetary level.

Do you even know what he is asking for??????? Put Colin a position to entertain the outside world, and the market will dictate whathe is worth......he would be very well sought after! And letting him go justadds one more hole to our team!

Dontyou ? Been reported inteh realm of 450 + p.a without those niggly performanceissues

Hes not a midfielder. He an outside running flanker.

That up until the weekend, led the team in tackles

Lookwhere they were..which games..

If Colin isnt the player the club wants...afterr 8 seasons, then the wayforward is to get a player the club wants.

cant make silk out of a sours ear as they say..He is what he is....and alwayshas been . A player dogged by inconsistent efforts despite having talent.

Has made considerable improvements in consistency overthe past few seasons........not unlike Daniel Wells who was drafted a yearbefore him, and has only this season found consistency

Yourekidding arent you . He started to show form then has slipped back badly thisyear

Bit like the school kids report. Has ability , needs to apply himself. its thatsimple. He has it, he doesnt do it. Has it all before him ....and doesnt.

No, he actually does perform, but clearly not to yourexpectations. From where he has been to where he is now is a bigimprovement..........will he ever be a Judd or Hodge, not a chance, but he canstill be a very important part of the team in the future

Please...openyour eyes. .Its all based on what youhope. Its not just my expectations but clearly the clubs hence the performanceclauses etc.. Am I alone here on this forum suggesting hes not up to scratch ??No.

A lot of people need to step back and observe our team and its constituentplayers a little more dispassionately and see many for what they are. Overpaidand underachieving.

I have no problem doing that at all, and if you look atmy original post, I never said throw the MFC vault at him, simply that he isimportant, and we need to keep him, as I don't believe more speculative draftpicks are the answer right now

Whosto say what we would eventually end up with as result of tradiing him

It hurts to do so as many consider anyone in a Melbourne jumper beyondreproach. Theyre just footy players doing a job. Some not that well. Othersbeyond their reward.

Well I don't, but I do consider Sylvia an importantplayer going forward. We don't know what he is on, and we don't know what he isafter to even begin to make an assessment of whether he is or isn't overpaid.

Seeprevious

Id like to be giving the likes of Jordie and Watts , Trennerrs , Gys etc someof the money that some of the "prima donnas " are getting under falsepretences. Thses guys have only a couple of seasons behind them..andconsisently put in....a concept Col wouldt know.

How about we move to retain real team players... real contributors...not thepretenders.

The stats listed earlier show he is putting inconsistently, so not sure why you keep going down this path, and paying anyplayer who contributes should absolutely be paid accordingly

Repeat..repeat repeat

But there'll be a truck load of excuses no doubt , for Col...and all they areis that...excuses.

I don't think there are excuses to be made, you justclearly have a different perspective on his performance to me, and subsequentvalue

Yes..Iand others clearly expect him to play 4 qtrs per game to his ability and nbo gowalkabouts when the going gets tough..clearly not your standards

Edited August 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

I really Hope Todd Viney brings back both Jurrah & Sylvia and just says to them "Play your natural game boys" I think Sylvia & Jurrah have both been a bit tied down with structures during their careers.

We got nothing to lose, and it may make it harder to match up for the Wet Cokes.

I want to build a winning at all costs culture at this club, sod draft picks...getting top picks is not worth the pain...(most of the time)

Carlton, Collingwood, Hawthorn, Essendon, & to a slightly lesser degree Wet Coke EXPECT TO WIN EVERY GAME....we must expect the same.

[beelzebub 23,370]

Touche' and accolades on your determination......but please McKenzie (33games)? Martin (46games)? a little too much absinthe for breakfast perhaps?

lol...

it probably doesnt sit well with some that the kids are playing better than their supposed superiors. But its clearly the case

All youve offered is a statistic which of its own neans nothing other than a count of games played. Youd think then surely that Sylvia having played 119 would be street s ahead and far more impacting in a game, certainly more than those ive mentioned..But he isnt..

again ,,what was you r point ?? ( quietly sips )

[Retrospective 104]

lol...

it probably doesnt sit well with some that the kids are playing better than their supposed superiors. But its clearly the case

All youve offered is a statistic which of its own neans nothing other than a count of games played. Youd think then surely that Sylvia having played 119 would be street s ahead and far more impacting in a game, certainly more than those ive mentioned..But he isnt..

again ,,what was you r point ?? ( quietly sips )

My point: Sylvia = quality. Important to the side, should be retained

I'm not sure how to respond when it seems that your latest contention is that you'd be happy for Sylvia to go if you can keep McKenzie

was it a large bottle? how much is left?

[old dee 23,790]

Now you go stand in the naughty corner with Quenie..

What on earth are you doing spruiking realism ??

tsk tsk

Sorry BB I am now standing in the corner and it is very hard to type from here.

Can I answer the critics and then go back to the corner?

Edited August 9, 2011 by old dee

[old dee 23,790]

My point: Sylvia = quality. Important to the side, should be retained

I'm not sure how to respond when it seems that your latest contention is that you'd be happy for Sylvia to go if you can keep McKenzie

was it a large bottle? how much is left?

My point is that we are playing poorly this year and it is mainly the fault of the more experienced players of which Sylvia is one.

Green, Bate, Sylvia,Davey, moloney and Dunn. These guys are letting us down badly, they should be taking more of the load while our younger players get experience and improve.

Instead we have the situation where our young guys are trying to compensate for these guys.

Why is that Trengove, Watts, Mckenie and Martin are probably leading the B&F.

At years end it is going to be embarrassing when our captain is not in the top ten!

I like a lot of other demon members are tired of the excuses that the older players are given.

Sylvia is probably unlucky that his contract is up for renewal.

If Green / Davey were in the same position I would be expecting a reduction.

I am not expecting a reduction from Sylvia but I object to paying a large increase on the basis of his ordinary performance over his current contract period.

The sermon is now over.

[beelzebub 23,370]

My point: Sylvia = quality. Important to the side, should be retained

I'm not sure how to respond when it seems that your latest contention is that you'd be happy for Sylvia to go if you can keep McKenzie

was it a large bottle? how much is left?

Thats a construct of yours. Poor effort..come on ..lift your game.

If Colin played to his ability ..at leat 3/4 of a game..and say for 4 out of 5 games then he may well be of the ilk many here would have him, i,.e invaluable to the team. But as he doesnt. Then how does such an argument hold water. It confounds me..as it does more than a few here. So many are prepared to qualify his retaining on the basis of his "possibilities' and little on his actual performances.

According to some hes in the 3 of must keeps. Yet last year , a far more balanced and effective year bay any ones account he only managed 5th in our own evaulation. Seems reasonable to suggest hes slipped a bit from that.

Its supposed that teh more experienced . more able, and talented of a team ought to rise to the surface, especially under duress and adverse conditions. These are the exact occasions when many here, not just I , suggest Colins game goes well off the boil and his effectiveness becomes hard to measure, being that little.

Tell me one game hes really stood up in this year?? where there was real pressure and he had to make a real fist of it ??

I'll wait

oh..and p.s

He failed to even make the best list against the nuffs nuffs on teh weekend..I mean really ??

Edited August 9, 2011 by belzebub59

[old55 23,572]

I think you'll understand..... if you think quite hard about it....... that my contention is that he shouldn't have been dropped..... see how that works.... I DISAGREE with the decision to drop him and Jurrah, think it was poor timing, selected 2 players as scapegoats for a season that is in tatters.

let's see if he stays, and if/ when he goes you can cheer on the next callow 70kg youth we throw out there as part of our rolling 50 year plan for greatness.... before you call for us to get rid of him 8 yrs later

I really Hope Todd Viney brings back both Jurrah & Sylvia and just says to them "Play your natural game boys" I think Sylvia & Jurrah have both been a bit tied down with structures during their careers.

Well I'm afraid I could not disagree with both of you more. Modern football success relies on team structure and everyone playing their part - if one player fails to do so, the whole team structure disintegrates and you get end-to-end goals against. Players who do their own thing and "play their natural game" and don't follow team rules destroy structure. Quite clearly Sylvia and Jurrah have a problem with this and it needs to be eradicated or they need to be eradicated.

[beelzebub 23,370]

Sorry BB I am now standing in the corner and it is very hard to type from here.

Can I answer the critics and then go back to the corner?

By all means OLd.. we fall foul of folly from time to time

Youre going well

[Sir Why You Little 37,035]

Well I'm afraid I could not disagree with both of you more. Modern football success relies on team structure and everyone playing their part - if one player fails to do so, the whole team structure disintegrates and you get end-to-end goals against. Players who do their own thing and "play their natural game" and don't follow team rules destroy structure. Quite clearly Sylvia and Jurrah have a problem with this and it needs to be eradicated or they need to be eradicated.

Feel Free to disagree, but if we are going to win a game at Etihad Stadium after 4 years we must try something different. Our structures before have clearly not worked.

Jurrah & Sylvia & Sylvia are both "spark" players who can kick quick goals...Just let them go this week, play natural footy...We need a Spark for 2011.

[trout 385]

I'll risk that !! lol

The notion some think he's in the top 3 is with all repsect laughable.

Here's a quick list of those ahead of him

Watts, Trengove, Mckenzie, Frawley,Garland, Jamar, Martin

Dogged pursuit ?? Hardly. I simply refuse to lay down to those who'l continually make all the excuses under the sun for underperformers.

Be careful of stats. If you'll care to annalyse them you'll see his amasses most against lesser opposition.. and few against real pressure. Hes a junk time king.

Im happy and waiting for him to show me completely wrong.

I think Sylvia's stats against the best teams are not too bad this year.

Hawks: 1st in disposals Tackles: 4th

Eagles: 4th : 1st

Saints: 3rd : 3rd

Blues: 4th : 2nd

Pies: 9th : 12th

Hawks: 6th : 4th

Cats: 8th : 2nd

[old acquaintance 0]

He is a good player has been one of our best this year, even if not top 3,and has possibly been playing injured. He has performed much better than other senior players such as Rivers and Green, including his pressure(he is second in tackles). I think his axing is a message that they expect more from him because of his talent. Hopefully he comes back, has a good end to the year, and resigns, because he is a required player.

[Guest The Tweed Pig]

I have no doubt that players other than Sylvia could have been dropped, which tells me that the club was making a statement. They were making a statement to the player that was dropped in terms of what is expected and they were making a statement to the team in terms of what is expected. It was time to make such a statement. Sylvia will stay with the club and in time will appreciate the message that was sent.

[waikikkamukau 62]

Its been noted in the media that hes not happy about some apsects of the new contract offered. In particular areas of performance based payments.

So its fair to say he wants his money unconditionally. Bugger that !! No one ought to get that sort of hand out without accountability.

As long as Tom Scully has the same clauses!

[beelzebub 23,370]

As long as Tom Scully has the same clauses!

interesting you say that as I would agree 100%

In essence..all players ought to be...shouldnt they ?

[Akum 2,660]

Well I'm afraid I could not disagree with both of you more. Modern football success relies on team structure and everyone playing their part - if one player fails to do so, the whole team structure disintegrates and you get end-to-end goals against. Players who do their own thing and "play their natural game" and don't follow team rules destroy structure. Quite clearly Sylvia and Jurrah have a problem with this and it needs to be eradicated or they need to be eradicated.

IMO a lot of our problem as a team is that we haven't had anything that could be identified as a "team structure". And when we do get it, whoever coaches us, I think we'll see how much that's held back the performances of individual players and the team as a whole.

That's why it's tough to really be sure one way or the other about whether or not Sylvia deserves a more generous contract. Hence the differences in opinion.

He could be one of our most valuable assets in a better-structured team, but there's no guarantees of that.

[e25 5]

I agree, and is it any wonder we have trouble maintaining a structure with so many exceptionally inexperienced players in the team?

At least with 14 experienced players and 4 kids, the wiser heads can bark instructions and ensure the structure holds.

It's a exponentially harder with 4 experienced players and 14 kids.

But I think Sylvia has been guilty of front-running at times and causing structural breakdowns.

He needs to work on his discipline - hence his holiday at Casey.

Now he's ready to come back with a fresh mindset.

And finally, we can't comment on whether or not Sylvia deserves a more generous contract.

We don't know what he was previously on, we don't know what has been offered, and we don't know what he is asking for.

We don't even know that he is really unhappy with the offer, only that it is still being negotiated - the rest is unsubstantiated rumour and innuendo.

[hoopla 418]

Sorry I haven't waded through all these posts - because the answer is simple.

Colin Sylvia is a very important player at this stage in our development and he would be a very serious loss full stop.

[tonatopia 278]

Sylvia is our best player. He should be paid the highest amount of all the players. He just needs Leigh Mathews to mentor him.

[old dee 23,790]

Sylvia is our best player. He should be paid the highest amount of all the players. He just needs Leigh Mathews to mentor him.

Then why was he playing at Casey last week?

[beelzebub 23,370]

Sorry I haven't waded through all these posts - because the answer is simple.

Colin Sylvia is a very important player at this stage in our development and he would be a very serious loss full stop.

Maybe if you had read the thread youd be conversant as to why , and indeed how, some would disagree with you.

Why is an inconsistent , goes walkabout player important at this stage....which also goes to how is his presence, or lack of, a serious loss ?