Footy Classified

[Guest hangon007]

Evidently the sniping we do on here is little compared to what goes on at the club...

Sorry thats not true ... everybody is just trying to do their best ... I'm sure the club hears what many supporters are saying .... its damn hard to miss it, it gets recycled in the conventional media in a nearly daily "media spun article".

Give the club a break ... let them sort this out. Is that toooo unreasonable a request from one Melbourne supporter to another?

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Your nearly there ... Yes, we all have to give a bit.

Sorry, we dont have any "single" Dick Pratts .... but if we ALL club together we might match a Dick Pratt.

The issue you at hand is the contribution by key element of the Club is questionable. There would appear to have been some fundamental and critical failings and break downs from Stynes, Board, CEO, Coach, FD and players. This is in stark contrast to the members/supporters who have been asked to dig deep and eliminate $5m of debt. It appears that bit put by those sectors greatly outweighs the mottled and conflicted contributions from critical parts of the Club. I doubt we would match a Dick Pratt.

In the post DD world, MFC has yet to establish a sound business model that would deliver a profitable future. That the immediate need and thats the CEOs role. Its not sustainable to go the supporters well continually particularly the circus that gets served up every 3 to 4 years by this Club.

Give the CEO a break man. Would have to have one of the most difficult jobs in football ... How can you make money when nobody wants to turn up? How can you make your players happy when you are forced to sell games to Darwin? How can you keep the players happy when you got 1/2 the footy department spend other clubs have. How can you ever motivate yourself when you get nothing but negative faceless snipping around here?

CS has been in the role for 3 years and knows the gig. He took this job with his eyes open and had been at MFC before. The questions you pose are some of the questions that are bread and butter jobs for a CEO. Its the job of the head of the FD to "keep the players happy". Schwab seems to have acted more as a glorified football manager with an agenda. As for the sniping, Schwab is not the victim in this. And his public undermining of the coach in the press earlier this year was poor really poor.

....

But when I snipe them they cant take it. You blokes are just not living in 2011.

You overrate yourself. You wont enter any discussion that you feel in some way criticises elements of the Club. However you are quite ready to mock in a junvenile any reasonable proposal from other posters that accord with your alleged out of the herd concepts. You're pedalling double standards and you seem the one that lacks the pragmatism required in 2011.

Now dont get me wrong DD was great thank-you, memberships are great thank-you .... but sorry it not enough in 2011 and moving forward. Sorry I hate to say it. We no longer have a "bailout clause" ... we have to learn to stand on our own two feet.

If you join the dots on your complaints about crowd turn ups etc with the need for MFC to stand on our own two feet, the absence of a sustainable and profitable business plan by MFC means that to just really on continual open charity of supporters for survival is untenable and unreasonable.

And guess what every MFC supporters wants the Club to survive and prosper. I dont know why it required mentioning as if it was special. But its a bit rich for supporters to do more than they have (and they have done alot over the past 3 years) when there is systematic failings and flaws in the house we are funding.

[Guest hangon007]

The issue you at hand is the contribution by key element of the Club is questionable. There would appear to have been some fundamental and critical failings and break downs from Stynes, Board, CEO, Coach, FD and players. This is in stark contrast to the members/supporters who have been asked to dig deep and eliminate $5m of debt. It appears that bit put by those sectors greatly outweighs the mottled and conflicted contributions from critical parts of the Club. I doubt we would match a Dick Pratt.

How do you know that. That sounds like the very defeatist attitude before we even try. But I'm glad you used the word "doubt"

I've acknowledged the great support that many have given via DD ... but sorry it not enough in 2011. We need to try again.

I just hope that if we do try again some dont attempt to derail the process for their own reasons.

In the post DD world, MFC has yet to establish a sound business model that would deliver a profitable future. That the immediate need and thats the CEOs role. Its not sustainable to go the supporters well continually particularly the circus that gets served up every 3 to 4 years by this Club.

CS has been in the role for 3 years and knows the gig. He took this job with his eyes open and had been at MFC before. The questions you pose are some of the questions that are bread and butter jobs for a CEO. Its the job of the head of the FD to "keep the players happy". Schwab seems to have acted more as a glorified football manager with an agenda. As for the sniping, Schwab is not the victim in this. And his public undermining of the coach in the press earlier this year was poor really poor.

Interesting you didn't care to make an attempt to answer them. Might be bread & butter for some ... but damn hard when your whole club is not synchronised. You are in a constant battle against your own.

Many great CEO have tried and failed.

You overrate yourself. You wont enter any discussion that you feel in some way criticises elements of the Club. However you are quite ready to mock in a junvenile any reasonable proposal from other posters that accord with your alleged out of the herd concepts. You're pedalling double standards and you seem the one that lacks the pragmatism required in 2011.

Sorry thats your impression I dont over rate myself ... I said on many occasions I'm a simple man.

However, I merely mirror the acts of many around here to drive my point home. You too are pedalling double standard thats my whole point, you look to blame aspect x of our club yet you wont look at the root cause. Its simple we could make this whole saga go away if we got our supporters to buy in to the programme 100% in a positive constructive way ... even if it was just for a "short" period.

So I could say the same about you in your lack of "pragmatism" ... I'm sorry I'm not a politician I'm something completely different who is prepared to listen to all.

If you join the dots on your complaints about crowd turn ups etc with the need for MFC to stand on our own two feet, the absence of a sustainable and profitable business plan by MFC means that to just really on continual open charity of supporters for survival is untenable and unreasonable.

Well think we will have to agree to disagree on this point

And guess what every MFC supporters wants the Club to survive and prosper. I dont know why it required mentioning as if it was special. But its a bit rich for supporters to do more than they have (and they have done alot over the past 3 years) when there is systematic failings and flaws in the house we are funding.

Well again I will say lets treat the cause & not the symptoms. The time is now for us all to get everything on the table ... and we all must give a bit. Just not sure you sound like you want to move one bit on your "untenable and unreasonable" points. But that is your prerogative. Good luck with that point of view.

All the best and thank-you for your time. You have helped me more than you think in thinking thru my views.

Regards

hangon 007

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[furious d 464]

However, I merely mirror the acts of many around here to drive my point home. You too are pedalling double standard thats my whole point, you look to blame aspect x of our club yet you wont look at the root cause. Its simple we could make this whole saga go away if we got our supporters to buy in to the programme 100% in a positive constructive way ... even if it was just for a "short" period.

I've asked you before and got no answer, so I'll try again.

What exactly is it that we, the supporters, can do that will allow this club to compete with the big boys. You keep saying it's simple but I'm yet to hear what it is that's so simple. What is this programme we are not buying into?

You make out we're the worst supporters in the league and it's all our fault, please exain how?

[rpfc 28,433]

Give the club a break ... let them sort this out. Is that toooo unreasonable a request from one Melbourne supporter to another?

I don't think it is.

The club has issues that need to be rectified and we are more than in our right to question the decisions, or lack of decisions, that are made.

[Guest hangon007]

I don't think it is.

The club has issues that need to be rectified and we are more than in our right to question the decisions, or lack of decisions, that are made.

No problems ... but can you see the consequence?

Somebody amongst you will always question the decisions or lack of .... there is your/our collective problem ... B)

You will miss your opportunity at the table because always some among you/us will want to "question the decisions".

We cant run this club via a poll on Demonland ... some you win some you lose. But always some among you want to snipe our players or our club. (There is my whole point in a nutshell - many just never stop and consider their actions in a public forum - they dont defend our club & players they defend their own point of view)

But each to their own ... its your "right to question the decisions or lack of" B)

PS Its not only demonland its the supporters as a whole the have a history of voting with their feet. B)

PS People can take positive constructive stuff but the vast majority of stuff around here is neither. No its sorry to be blunt arrogant, ignorant(mainly drawn from the media), negative over emotional garbage. This forum should be way better than that.

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[rpfc 28,433]

No problems ... but can you see the consequence?

Somebody amongst you will always question the decisions or lack of .... there is your/our collective problem ... B)

You will miss your opportunity at the table because always some among you/us will want to "question the decisions".

We cant run this club via a poll on Demonland ... some you win some you lose. But always some among you want to snipe our players or our club.

But each to their own ... its your "right to question the decisions or lack of" B)

PS Its not only demonland its the supporters as a whole the have a history of voting with their feet. B)

We are not trying to run the club, we are trying to understand how others ran it so badly...

They are all adults (we think...), they can deal with some criticism.

In fact, they are all going to give each other words I am sure...

[heartbeatstrue 57]

Its simple we could make this whole saga go away if we got our supporters to buy in to the programme 100% in a positive constructive way ... even if it was just for a "short" period.

...

All the best and thank-you for your time. You have helped me more than you think in thinking thru my views.

Well I believe you need to re-think this one. Of all the groups in this sorry saga, the supporters are the ones blameless. That may simply reflect our lack of power and influence, but be that as it may, I suggest the proportion of blame on MFC supporters is currently zero in this mess.

So, ipso facto, there's nothing the supporters can do to "make this whole saga go away".

I've said in previous posts, the rot within our club has been festering for a long long time, and sacking DB won't of itself fix the heart of the problem. Only strong and fearless leadership at the top, and great resolve to make the tough calls, will do that. Otherwise even a little remaining rot will eat at morale, permeate through the club, and ultimately boil over into insipid playing performances like we've seen far too many of.

[waikikkamukau 62]

When's the last time a player has legally lined up a player for a hip and shoulder? When? I can't remember.

Tappy against Hawthorn, but I like where your head is at!.....Go on!

[Guest hangon007]

We are not trying to run the club, we are trying to understand how others ran it so badly...

They are all adults (we think...), they can deal with some criticism.

In fact, they are all going to give each other words I am sure...

Ok ... I hear what you are saying it just doesn't come across like that at times, not necessarily about you but as a collective group. This is a very negative destructive echo chamber forum at times. But with all due respect some around here heavily try to influence others & feed the media.

Mate they are human, as I said above do you really want robots? You certainly dont want them on the field do you?

Yip they can take it, they wouldn't listen if they didn't ... everybody loves constructive criticism.

You are a "leader" around here .... so is RR .... so is Rhino .... so are a few others ... if you want "leadership" from other elements of our football club you got to respect and show leadership first.

We have had our tussles in the past, all a bit of fun. Do I hear you ... Yes, I appreciate your passion.

Would I follow many around here ... no ... some of us are simple foot soldiers maybe small in numbers, many prefer to shut their mouths but can we assist you one day ... [censored] you never know.

But give the club & break.

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[nutbean 8,838]

I find it concerning that the Melbourne CEO Cameron Schwab according to reports and the club itself, involved himself in the FD earlier in the year - yet allegedly appoints and surrounds himself with 'reportedly' (See Denham's article) expensive administration staff much to the boards alleged disappointment to help him do his job.

I find the above concerning staffing and the boards disappointment - if the above is true then it is truly amatuer hour and everyone should be on their bike including the board - the above means that the CEO works outside his parameters and without accountability to anyone. The Board has zero idea of what is happening at the club and allows the club management to do as it pleases and its annual budget sessions and monthly financial reviews are non existant. I say this with the firm belief that this is a load of hocum and not the case.

People who have worked/work in a corporate environment, will tell you that have a little thing controlling the company's actions called "budgets". The Board would be presented annually a financial plan for the year ( and subsequent years). This would be reviewed and reassessed monthly at the board meeting. The spends would be tracked against budget and the biggest of these items would be staff. The budget would clearly spell out staff numbers and dollars in the football department ( players, coaches, boot studders, water boys)and in the administration ( CEO down to the girl Friday). The monthly review would flesh out how the actuals are panning out against budget.

To suggest that CS surrounded himself with "expensive" admin staff and the board is disappointed can only mean that the board and CS work in complete isolation with no accountability. If true ( which I doubt) it is as much an indictment of the board as it is CS.

I dont believe that to be case.

EDIT - what i will say as a postscript to this post is budgetry processes and business plans are rarely if ever "pen to paper, present and approve". They are a negotiation between management and the board ( and negotiations between sections of managment and sections of the board) to get agreement on direction and spends. There will be invariably people on the board and in management who will agree or disagree with the final majority concensus. I will not discount that these rumblings around certain actions or inactions are from parties that may not have agreed with directions or decision that the "majority" approved.

Edited August 3, 2011 by nutbean

[Guest hangon007]

Well I believe you need to re-think this one. Of all the groups in this sorry saga, the supporters are the ones blameless. That may simply reflect our lack of power and influence, but be that as it may, I suggest the proportion of blame on MFC supporters is currently zero in this mess.

So, ipso facto, there's nothing the supporters can do to "make this whole saga go away".

I've said in previous posts, the rot within our club has been festering for a long long time, and sacking DB won't of itself fix the heart of the problem. Only strong and fearless leadership at the top, and great resolve to make the tough calls, will do that. Otherwise even a little remaining rot will eat at morale, permeate through the club, and ultimately boil over into insipid playing performances like we've seen far too many of.

No problems ... I've re thought this you are right. You are powerless you & RPFC convinced me.

[old55 23,576]

Its simple we could make this whole saga go away if we got our supporters to buy in to the programme 100% in a positive constructive way ... even if it was just for a "short" period.

Everything is Beautiful

[heartbeatstrue 57]

No problems ... I've re thought this you are right. You are powerless you & RPFC convinced me.

Cheers. It would be nice to think we as supporters carried some influence, collectively we do I suppose by our passion and support at the games. Pies supporters by the noise they generate do seem to have some influence on umpiring decisions.

We did in the "no merger" campaign (except those in favour carried the day and we relied on Hawthorn supporters to save our club).

But in terms of being responsible, or in fixing the current mess within the club, I just can't see supporters being influential unless we all acted with one voice, which ain't going to happen.

[Guest hangon007]

Everything is Beautiful

Are you smoking stuff again ... if I told you once I've told you twice ... that religious stuff will corrupt your brain.

Sorry its all the go around here ... just couldn't resist the trend.

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[Guest hangon007]

Cheers. It would be nice to think we as supporters carried some influence, collectively we do I suppose by our passion and support at the games. Pies supporters by the noise they generate do seem to have some influence on umpiring decisions.

We did in the "no merger" campaign (except those in favour carried the day and we relied on Hawthorn supporters to save our club).

But in terms of being responsible, or in fixing the current mess within the club, I just can't see supporters being influential unless we all acted with one voice, which ain't going to happen

Yip that truly is your problem .. "acting as one voice".

Cheers to you too.

[jackaub 1,402]

This is what I want to know - were all the players involved/aware of the "leaders" grievances?

I am exhausted with Green, Rivers, Moloney, Davey, Sylvia, and, to a lesser extent, Jones.

And I know this may mean McLardy gets another phone call from Brad Green of Brighton - but I want to see the Leadership Group removed at the end of the season and the under 24 brigade told to choose their leaders for 2012 and beyond.

I don't want to be unreasonable when it comes to our 'senior' or older players, but at same point they are failures as leaders and we must evolve past them.

Coudnt agree more rpfc!~

It is all about failure at a number of levels

I'm with you 100%. I am also disinclined to give 100% support to our supposed leadership group who have shown their complete inability to lead. They are not the future!Just a means to get there. I believe it is their responsibility to contribute all they can to the club from now and that doesn't include throwing a hissy cos the club won't look after their fragile egos as they want. Grow up 'leaders ' and lead, try to recover the amount of good will you trashed last Saturday

[Guest hangon007]

I've asked you before and got no answer, so I'll try again.

What exactly is it that we, the supporters, can do that will allow this club to compete with the big boys. You keep saying it's simple but I'm yet to hear what it is that's so simple. What is this programme we are not buying into?

You make out we're the worst supporters in the league and it's all our fault, please exain how?

Sorry I missed this.

IMHO a club has many key elements

a/ The Board

b/ The CEO

c/ Footy Department

d/ Players

e/ Supporters

Sadly IMHO many of our supporters are punch drunk for many reasons

a/ many have lost the will to fight ... hence dont turn up to games bruise free supporters

b/ many have mentally given up ... a certain pessimism control their thinking about many many issues

c/ many feel they financially given enough ... but we are miles behind the leading teams

d/ many dont accept what the clubs says ... they make their minds up based on media

Yet would they accept this if their players did any of the above .... hell no. All [censored] would break lose.

But sometimes by your actions you influence others or even more importantly allow the "media" to tarnish your brand.

Take The Tom Scully Saga

a/ Many gave up before the fight ever started

b/ Many just assumed he was gone

c/ Many feel its all about the money

d/ Many just wont accept Toms words

Online communities according to all the studies exhibit many off line traits.

So what can we do

a/ Never give up till the last game of the year, rain hail or shine, irrespective of the venue. Amazingly their is only one group in our whole club that can convince the AFL that Melbourne should never let Geelong start the game with such an advantage as Shell Stadium. Can you guess who that is ....

b/ Be positive and constructive about our players & club ... they are not pieces of meat, you cant mentally get rid of them once you think they have pass their used by date, many times we are wrong Stefan Martin this year is a prime example. They are human beings.

c/ Our football department is massively under financed ... as Rhino said we have no Dick Pratt at present ... but we must be open to finding another way. Maybe we need a 12 month fighting fund to get the ball rolling.

d/ Have trust in our club that everybody is doing their best. We have a habit of looking for the bad not the good, the glass is half full not half empty.

These are just some ... I'm very, very lucky I've seen the insides of quite a few AFL clubs most are miles in front of us ... hence their ladder position, or at least they are punching above their weight.

We are not the worst but if you truly desire that premiership we must become the best ... sorry we are a long, long way from that.

Does that answer your questions?

PS I'm a simple man ... once this is over I'm gone I just want to watch my footy team.

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[nutbean 8,838]

Coudnt agree more rpfc!~

It is all about failure at a number of levels

I'm with you 100%. I am also disinclined to give 100% support to our supposed leadership group who have shown their complete inability to lead. They are not the future!Just a means to get there. I believe it is their responsibility to contribute all they can to the club from now and that doesn't include throwing a hissy cos the club won't look after their fragile egos as they want. Grow up 'leaders ' and lead, try to recover the amount of good will you trashed last Saturday

Real leaders do not need to be voted in - through their deeds and actions they scream without voices - " I am a leader". I will temper this with the disclaimer that we are only privvy to an outside view of leadership. For example, Tom Harley from the outside looked adequate but all the insiders at Geelong always raved about his leadership qualities.

And HO007 - I will always be as constructive but this behind the 8 ball due to spends and facilities should not diminish good leadership. The best of everything does give you an added edge but also doesnt necessarily give you the desired end result.

During the 90's the West Coast Eagles with state of the art facilities were playing off in finals against North Melbourne who worked out of shipping containers at Arden Street.

I actually dont think it is indictment on the club that we dont have a strong leadership group. I think actual think the reason we dont have a strong leadership group is because we dont have strong leaders.

[pitmaster 3,554]

Please drop this Laidley talk - he is noooooo good. Ask any Roo supporter you know.

And he'd be a lousy fit for us.

For mine, its Roos (unlikely), Clarkson (ideal but stitched up) or Eade who is known to blister players, and has done wonders with deficient lists at Dogland and Swanlake.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

Eade has continually fallen short with lists and game styles similar to ours .

I'd also go as far saying the clubs he's been in charge of also have mental issues as shown by the dogs this year and last that he has no idea how to conquer .

Sound familiar .

[Guest hangon007]

Coudnt agree more rpfc!~

It is all about failure at a number of levels

I'm with you 100%. I am also disinclined to give 100% support to our supposed leadership group who have shown their complete inability to lead. They are not the future!Just a means to get there. I believe it is their responsibility to contribute all they can to the club from now and that doesn't include throwing a hissy cos the club won't look after their fragile egos as they want. Grow up 'leaders ' and lead, try to recover the amount of good will you trashed last Saturday

Are you willing to do the same?

[Guest hangon007]

During the 90's the West Coast Eagles with state of the art facilities were playing off in finals against North Melbourne who worked out of shipping containers at Arden Street.

I actually dont think it is indictment on the club that we dont have a strong leadership group. I think actual think the reason we dont have a strong leadership group is because we dont have strong leaders.

Sorry this is not true ... funny you mention both those sides ... West Coast & North in the 90's.

We were part of both organisations at that very period in time you mentioned. We actually employed West Coast Eagles players. You are spreading a myth thats just not true ... they were far from eating out of "shipping containers" ... behind the scenes they were very, very well organised.

Nothing ever seems as it appears. B) B) B)

Edited August 3, 2011 by hangon007

[Rogue 585]

d/ many dont accept what the clubs says ... they make their minds up based on media

McLardy said that the Geelong game was a mirror of our Club.

Just thought it was worth noting.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

McLardy said that the Geelong game was a mirror of our Club.

Just thought it was worth noting.

Hmmm..Horses mouth. He needs to give a bit that will fix things.

Sorry I missed this.

IMHO a club has many key elements

a/ The Board

b/ The CEO

c/ Footy Department

d/ Players

e/ Supporters

Sadly IMHO many of our supporters are punch drunk for many reasons

Bravo on the a) to e). Its the best analysis you have conjured to date. Its a pity you cant understand people's right (particularly when they commit the considerable capital) to question the performance and activities of elements a) to d) yet you perpetually attack other supporters. Either you want to [censored] one small element e) in the whole picture to try and be different to the herd with bizarre double standards and naivety. You take wide swipes at people who dare raise a question on those a) to d) elements as "blaming" yet you ping fellow supporters. No wonder you cant see the broader picture.

Rpfc has summed it well as why we question those elements entrusted by members/supporters.

PS I'm a simple man

You keep saying and there's no argument from me on that.

Everything is Beautiful

Good choice but Teddy Bear's picnic captures the moment.