New coach now?

[QueenC 74]

Years result.. Well the optimistic and/or apologists will offer up its yet another development year.

The realists , strangely enough will counter, no, agree, it in effect has become yet another development year.

Why is the word "development" such a bogey term around here?

I would have thought that is exactly what we are, in fact what all teams are as they always have to improve and re-shape themselves each year, each game, each quarter. There is nothing wrong with developing and since we being represented by a kindergarten I would have thought development is exactly what is needed. Thus not a bad thing, a necessary thing. And something this season was always going to be.

Edited June 16, 2011 by QueenC

[MadAsHell 4,088]

So I take it from your cryptic answer that you don't feel there would be any drag-along financial benefit to hiring Malthouse and that he wouldn't bring more success? Fair enough that's your opinion

Appologise for my flipant respose DC, been a long day.

Point I want to make is that it's no sure thing that a proven coach in Malthouse will equal on field success, and may just cost us money in the long run. However as another poster mentioned Carlton were on a downward slide when Pagan came in and with draft restrictions.

Personally if Bailey can equal what he did last year 8.5 wins or better I'd be willing to give him a 1 year extention with a simple finals must scenario going into 2012. If he managed to get us into the finals this year then he'd be looking at a 2+ contract.

4.5 wins already this year, he needs at least 4 more in the last 11 for me to be happy for him to stay beyond this year.

Edit: Spelling

Edited June 16, 2011 by Tall Defence

[daisycutter 28,508]

Appologise for my flipant respose DC, been a long day.

Point I want to make is that it's no sure thing that a proven coach in Malthouse will equal on field success, and may just cost us money in the long run. However as another poster mentioned Carlton were on a downward slide when Pagan came in and with draft restrictions.

Personally if Bailey can equal what he did last year 8.5 wins or better I'd be willing to give him a 1 year extention with a simple finals must scenario going into 2012. If he managed to get us into the finals this year then he'd be looking at a 2+ contract.

4.5 wins already this year, he needs at least 4 more in the last 11 for me to be happy for him to stay beyond this year.

Edit: Spelling

OK, no probs, I got the gist but Pagan/Carlscum wasn't the best comparison

My op was really nothing about Bailey

It was just making a what-if point about a hypothetical acquisition of Malthouse after others said he (and his FD demands) would be too expensive for the MFC

I'm sure he would drag along some revenue and he would have to have some success with the list he'd inherit.

But I'd have no idea how much he could drag-along and whether it would compensate the extra costs, finance is not my bag

Was just tossing another consideration into the pot

[Dockett 32 1,213]

"Prior to the Adelaide game, Jimmy was asked how many wins did he think was a resonable outcome for this year... He said 10 wins.

We have 4 and a half wins... There are 11 games to go...we are a chance to win another 5 maybe 6 games.....There is your 10 wins for the year...and the President is happy and Bails gets a new contract........ "

Probably right and the bloke has got 10/11 weeks to do it, so I believe we should give him a fair go.

[Born to Run 204]

"Prior to the Adelaide game, Jimmy was asked how many wins did he think was a resonable outcome for this year... He said 10 wins.

We have 4 and a half wins... There are 11 games to go...we are a chance to win another 5 maybe 6 games.....There is your 10 wins for the year...and the President is happy and Bails gets a new contract........ "

Probably right and the bloke has got 10/11 weeks to do it, so I believe we should give him a fair go.

Agree with this, but also think that no matter what this forum says, it is not ultimately up to us, it will be the Board. The club will give him to seasons end for sure.

I think the title of this thread is now a little off track to most of the commentary which is about whether he will be re-appointed or not at seasons end.

[Bruce Almighty 0]

Dennis Pagan and the Carlton Football Club say hi.

You Idiot - No Comparison

[dee-luded 2,958]

Don't quite know what you mean??? You may not like Malthouse as a person...But he sure can coach. He gives solid instructions that are carried out.

I don't. And I don't like where he'sd trying to take the game AFL, either.

As far as an AFL watcher I don't like the Floods and Preeses, and I'd gathered from your Posts and from Others who post that many don't. He is not the only coach who can be effective @ winning. In fact he has failed consistently against other top coaches he's come up against in the big Games. Matthews had his measure. Sheedy also. It's just that now that after 12/15 years at that club, and with the move to the Olympic Swimming centre and the Expenditure Dollars $$$'s, that the club has the Big Edge on the competition. But it took other sides starting to Age, tire & have injuries to get up. LIONs got List Old. Same with the Cats +add the GC Suns phenomena & Bomba fiasco. And the Hawks have been decimated by Key Tall Injuries since the 2008 Premiership win...

So we find the Pie Wobblers get up after their 2nd crack @ a perenial losing club, with all the other strong clubs in some decline. Tanking Eagles and underhanded Blues notworthstanding.

So forgive me if I'm not all that esconsed with MnM, he's so good that their changing him for a younger modle. I think it's the car & the mechanics garage as much as any rare Magic thats got them up in an Eclipsed Window. And I think the Rotations Bench is deskilling the game and NoName players are becoming the norm. we're losing the Marquee players under the game of MM checkers,,, where once the AFL chess game was all consuming.

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

I don't. And I don't like where he'sd trying to take the game AFL, either.

As far as an AFL watcher I don't like the Floods and Preeses, and I'd gathered from your Posts and from Others who post that many don't. He is not the only coach who can be effective @ winning. In fact he has failed consistently against other top coaches he's come up against in the big Games. Matthews had his measure. Sheedy also. It's just that now that after 12/15 years at that club, and with the move to the Olympic Swimming centre and the Expenditure Dollars $$$'s, that the club has the Big Edge on the competition. But it took other sides starting to Age, tire & have injuries to get up. LIONs got List Old. Same with the Cats +add the GC Suns phenomena & Bomba fiasco. And the Hawks have been decimated by Key Tall Injuries since the 2008 Premiership win...

So we find the Pie Wobblers get up after their 2nd crack @ a perenial losing club, with all the other strong clubs in some decline. Tanking Eagles and underhanded Blues notworthstanding.

So forgive me if I'm not all that esconsed with MnM, he's so good that their changing him for a younger modle. I think it's the car & the mechanics garage as much as any rare Magic thats got them up in an Eclipsed Window. And I think the Rotations Bench is deskilling the game and NoName players are becoming the norm. we're losing the Marquee players under the game of MM checkers,,, where once the AFL chess game was all consuming.

But Floods and presses were always going to evolve once players became Fully Professional, coaches then had time to teach & instill tactics

Before that it was motivational sprays on saturday, and positional moves that coaches could only hope would work.

Malthouse is a good coach because the players do believe his tactics will work...They react instinctively when under pressure to a team mate in better position--because that player has run to a position where he knows it will be better. I watched it for 2 hours last monday. The Filth played the same way for 4 Quarters & we did not have a clue what to do out there once the siren sounded.

If Bailey is not up for it next year & MM decides he wants a change of scenery, i would love to watch the MFC play like that each week.

Edited June 16, 2011 by why you little

[Demon Dynasty 15,413]

Ill go easy - Bailey simply wouldn't do it.

When has a head coach EVER stepped aside at a club, yet stayed on as an assistant? EVER?

The answer should be telling.

How about as Director of Coaching??

[old dee 22,852]

How about as Director of Coaching??

if he is not good enough to be the head coach why would the dees want him for any other position.

If he is not good enough he is not good enough

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

if he is not good enough to be the head coach why would the dees want him for any other position.

If he is not good enough he is not good enough

He is a good teacher....That we do know.

[old dee 22,852]

He is a good teacher....That we do know.

I have no idea if that is true.

How do you know that he is?

I do not see anything in the dees performance that tells me he is a great teacher.

Can you please explain.

[Demon Dynasty 15,413]

Rubbish on both accounts.

People seem to forget we are still a financially straightened Club. There is a fantasy persisting that because we have paid off the debt that everything is rosy. It isnt. Cost is very much a consideration. Malthouse would be on very good money at Collingwood and unless he wants to do charity, MFC are going to have to raffle alot of free range chooks each year to have him.

And the reason we ended up with Bailey is that MFC chose the best of the Coaches available at the time.

First para....ya. Nice.

2nd para... ummm....not sure i'd rank Bailey an equal to or better coach than Sheedy at the time the decision was made. Whether he was the correct person for the job or not is another matter depending on the MFC's criteria/decision making processes/budget etc.

[dee-luded 2,958]

But Floods and presses were always going to evolve once players became Fully Professional, coaches then had time to teach & instill tactics

Before that it was motivational sprays on saturday, and positional moves that coaches could only hope would work.

Malthouse is a good coach because the players do believe his tactics will work...They react instinctively when under pressure to a team mate in better position--because that player has run to a position where he knows it will be better. I watched it for 2 hours last monday. The Filth played the same way for 4 Quarters & we did not have a clue what to do out there once the siren sounded.

If Bailey is not up for it next year & MM decides he wants a change of scenery, i would love to watch the MFC play like that each week.

Floods and Presses would not evolve to where they are now if we had the old 19th & 20 th men, even with todays sports science. But with the combination of full time players and massive leaps in sports science and the availability of4 interchange gavre rise to the Congested football all over the field. No players antwhere near playing the ol' positions nor lining up on another specialist player of their position.

Now I'm not suggesting we go back to the 1960's abd just 2 subs, but I like having less rotations available and think we need to go just a bit further.

MnM wants 6 interchange bench. this will start to take us towrds grid Iron where we'll be able to have certain rotations during the ball change after a point is kicked with either defence types rushing on or off depending on the game situation..

All in all, it makes the game about the coaches instead of the Marquee players.

Give a game about the Locketts, the Flowers, the Schwarts's, the Gabletts's snr's, Not a game of no name checkers pieces, moved around frequently by the play maker malthouse. Wishes to be a king, except there are no Kings in checkers... Only in Chess, dear mick...

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

Floods and Presses would not evolve to where they are now if we had the old 19th & 20 th men, even with todays sports science. But with the combination of full time players and massive leaps in sports science and the availability of4 interchange gavre rise to the Congested football all over the field. No players antwhere near playing the ol' positions nor lining up on another specialist player of their position.

Now I'm not suggesting we go back to the 1960's abd just 2 subs, but I like having less rotations available and think we need to go just a bit further.

MnM wants 6 interchange bench. this will start to take us towrds grid Iron where we'll be able to have certain rotations during the ball change after a point is kicked with either defence types rushing on or off depending on the game situation..

All in all, it makes the game about the coaches instead of the Marquee players.

Give a game about the Locketts, the Flowers, the Schwarts's, the Gabletts's snr's, Not a game of no name checkers pieces, moved around frequently by the play maker malthouse. Wishes to be a king, except there are no Kings in checkers... Only in Chess, dear mick...

D.L you lost me after the 19th & 20th men!!! Sorry mate the days of kick to a contest. Stop pull up the socks, look kick are long gone

[Demon Dynasty 15,413]

I have no idea if that is true.

How do you know that he is?

I do not see anything in the dees performance that tells me he is a great teacher.

Can you please explain.

Yeh, i heard from an inside source that he's moved away from 'chalk and talk' to 'differentiated instruction' ...so he must be a 'good teacher'!

[Demon Dynasty 15,413]

if he is not good enough to be the head coach why would the dees want him for any other position.

If he is not good enough he is not good enough

I was being a little flippant...or trying to

[dee-luded 2,958]

D.L you lost me after the 19th & 20th men!!! Sorry mate the days of kick to a contest. Stop pull up the socks, look kick are long gone

You didn't read throught the post or you have no visualisation.

This would take us back to how we played about 8 - 10 Years back.. 2 interchange with one Sub: & one available emergency for seriously injured players.... Not back to the 1960's WYL, as you'ld almost remember.

Edited June 16, 2011 by dee-luded

[old dee 22,852]

I was being a little flippant...or trying to

Sorry RN I must be getting a little tired I missed it completely.

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

You didn't read throught the post or you have no visualisation.

This would take us back to how we played about 8 - 10 Years back.. 2 interchange with one Sub: & one available emergency for seriously injured players.... Not back to the 1960's WYL, as you'ld almost remember.

I did read your post twice actually. You are wishing the AFL go Backwards, Right or wrong it aint going to happen. The interchange bench has increased with the advent of continual running, players are fitter. It has always got faster as decades roll on.

That said i still stand by what i said. Mick Malthouse is a great tactical coach, possibly moreso now because the traditional "Positions" on the ground no longer exist.

[Demon Dynasty 15,413]

Sorry RN I must be getting a little tired I missed it completely.

All good mate. Heyy does that mean u managed to have your cocoa? Got a laugh outta that lol. Lucifer knows we need more laughs after Saturday

[dee-luded 2,958]

I did read your post twice actually. You are wishing the AFL go Backwards, Right or wrong it aint going to happen. The interchange bench has increased with the advent of continual running, players are fitter. It has always got faster as decades roll on.

That said i still stand by what i said. Mick Malthouse is a great tactical coach, possibly moreso now because the traditional "Positions" on the ground no longer exist.

it's not going backwards at all.. Why do think everything in 2 dimensions??? To improve something thats wrong isn't going 'Backwards', thats your Minds concept more about something with you than making a change to something that was better. it's not going anywhere but better. The extra rotations has created just a one dimensional running monster that's choking our game. We were losing opur full forwards and our rucks because these running burst players were running out the whole game, killing off the bigger blokes. and the "small " player... We were heading for a checkers style where everyone would be between 182 cms and 194cms,,, instead of the "Chess" style of Kings, and Queen, and Bisghop + Knight + Castle. Different types for different positions of all shapes and sizes. And hard footy where toughness was important, rather than Just playing sweeper roles every footy afternoon.

[Sir Why You Little 34,443]

it's not going backwards at all.. Why do think everything in 2 dimensions??? To improve something thats wrong isn't going 'Backwards', thats your Minds concept more about something with you than making a change to something that was better. it's not going anywhere but better. The extra rotations has created just a one dimensional running monster that's choking our game. We were losing opur full forwards and our rucks because these running burst players were running out the whole game, killing off the bigger blokes. and the "small " player... We were heading for a checkers style where everyone would be between 182 cms and 194cms,,, instead of the "Chess" style of Kings, and Queen, and Bisghop + Knight + Castle. Different types for different positions of all shapes and sizes. And hard footy where toughness was important, rather than Just playing sweeper roles every footy afternoon.

You do not think footy is Tough today??? Granted not as many teeth get punched out today & yes it is a tad over officiated IMO but the attack on the ball is way tougher than it has ever been.

When Bodies collide in the modern game you hear the slam.

[old dee 22,852]

You do not think footy is Tough today??? Granted not as many teeth get punched out today & yes it is a tad over officiated IMO but the attack on the ball is way tougher than it has ever been.

When Bodies collide in the modern game you hear the slam.

As against the past when you didnt!

[old dee 22,852]

All good mate. Heyy does that mean u managed to have your cocoa? Got a laugh outta that lol. Lucifer knows we need more laughs after Saturday

No RN it was more like a single malt.