The Viney push

[DemonOX 8,791]

Last night reminded me so much of season 2008 & 2009. We should be improving or at least showing signs of improvement.

We've got a game plan (I think) that isnt working and even Tom Harley has said we are the only side in the AFL that play this way, we've got a coach that no one knows if he can coach after nearly 4 years at the helm and we've got players who still manage to miss kick or kick the footy out of bounds on a regular basis. These skills are the most basic skills in the AFL yet will still cant manage it.

All of us here love the Dees but we have the same conversations every week about how pathetic we are. The thing that really pisses me off apart from the above is that I am sick to death of having to watch this sh^t every week and hear the same excuses from the coaches. If there is a game plan and the players are not following it or listening to the coach that tells me its time for DB to move on.

Its time for the MFC to make a stand. Show some BALLs and get rid of the coach and stick Viney in there as an interim measure while looking for a new head coach for next season.

Viney at least will bring passion, hardness and accountablility back to the side. Its the way he played his entiire career. He is a fav son and very well respected at the club.

Something needs to happen you can not put in those performances and expect supporters to BLINDLY follow without question. If we leave DB in charge for the rest of the season his game plan may do more harm than good.

[demon4eva 110]

Last night reminded me so much of season 2008 & 2009. We should be improving or at least showing signs of improvement.

R

Agree with you 100%. Just pathetic and time to pack. Every week we make the same mistake. Hand pass to a player surrounded by 4 opposition player, kick back and go no where. End up with opposition goals. No improvements. No structure.

I hate Essendon, Carlton, Collingwood and Hawthorn. We get defeated very badly. I can't understand why Scully couldn't play yesterday. He would have been better than those played last night.

I love this club. Please move on. Let Viney do the job.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Last night reminded me so much of season 2008 & 2009. We should be improving or at least showing signs of improvement.

We've got a game plan (I think) that isnt working and even Tom Harley has said we are the only side in the AFL that play this way, we've got a coach that no one knows if he can coach after nearly 4 years at the helm and we've got players who still manage to miss kick or kick the footy out of bounds on a regular basis. These skills are the most basic skills in the AFL yet will still cant manage it.

All of us here love the Dees but we have the same conversations every week about how pathetic we are. The thing that really pisses me off apart from the above is that I am sick to death of having to watch this sh^t every week and hear the same excuses from the coaches. If there is a game plan and the players are not following it or listening to the coach that tells me its time for DB to move on.

Its time for the MFC to make a stand. Show some BALLs and get rid of the coach and stick Viney in there as an interim measure while looking for a new head coach for next season.

Viney at least will bring passion, hardness and accountablility back to the side. Its the way he played his entiire career. He is a fav son and very well respected at the club.

Something needs to happen you can not put in those performances and expect supporters to BLINDLY follow without question. If we leave DB in charge for the rest of the season his game plan may do more harm than good.

+1 Something's got to happen. What we're seeing at our great club is unacceptable. Bailey, Royal, Mahoney .... out now. Enough is enough!

[Choko 493]

+1 Something's got to happen. What we're seeing at our great club is unacceptable. Bailey, Royal, Mahoney .... out now. Enough is enough!

But let's keep Todd Viney.... because he played for the club once.... you're smart....

[Range Rover 1,935]

But let's keep Todd Viney.... because he played for the club once.... you're smart....

Clearly you aren't lumping him in with those three chumps.

[Choko 493]

Clearly you aren't lumping him in with those three chumps.

Mahoney is by all repute a very good assistant. The others I'm not sure about, Viney included.

[Range Rover 1,935]

Mahoney is by all repute a very good assistant. The others I'm not sure about, Viney included.

What I know about Todd Viney is that he played 233 games for this club and in each and every one of them he played like his life depended on it.

The sort of bloke you couldn't look in the eye if you go half-hearted.

That's what we need for now.

[Choko 493]

What I know about Todd Viney is that he played 233 games for this club and in each and every one of them he played like his life depended on it.

The sort of bloke you couldn't look in the eye if you go half-hearted.

That's what we need for now.

Sounds like Frawley and Watson. And Tony Shaw.

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

we need a coach who has played in or coached a premiership, the roos are not a good example of this but the tigers are and there are plenty more

[Range Rover 1,935]

Sounds like Frawley and Watson. And Tony Shaw.

And Leigh Matthews and John Worsfold

[mrtwister 652]

Right now, I'm not sure who I would like the club to consider. What I do know is that we need a hard coach. With a young team, we need someone who doesn't accept excuses. Someone the players would respect because if they didn't they'd get left behind.

[Choko 493]

And Leigh Matthews and John Worsfold

Who didn't want Worsfold's head at the end of last year? Have a look at the WC forums. They took 3 years to get their players to execute the game plan. Very good example. Just not for your point.

[Guest 36DD]

So sacking Balme and replacing him with Hutchison had a great effect on our performance? Ditto when Daniher made way for Mark Riley?

You fail to understand we have a number of players that are mentally weak and physically [censored] weak, this has been the case for a number of years. Recently it hasn't been brought to the football world's attention as expectations were low, we were a developing side. Now the spotlight is back on us, players are still trying to coast however, now there in nowhere to hide.

Melbourne aren't respected in the football world and are renowned as a team of flashy physically and mentally weak downhill skiers.

[Maldonboy38 6,400]

Sorry to disagree but Bailey has to stay until 2011 is over. Any change now would cause more lack of confidence in our huge list of young footballers. His foundation principle has been to get games into your players and re-draft a new team. What he has to prove now is can he coach on game day and yes, he is failing in this KPI. His biggest error is that his basic game plan is faulty. Based on transition only with no structure or power in the forward 50. But if we get rid of him and "play the kids" we will be playing the same footballers we are playing now because we have so many injuries, and some dreadful mid-range footballers in poor form like Morton, Petterd, Newton etc...

As far as other coaches goes, having Viney sounds good, but there is no clear evidence of him being a hard coach at all. Actually he comes across as really mild-mannered and I will scream blue murder if we replace Bailey with another Balme/Daniher/Bailey type who cannot INSPIRE. I don't care how they played their footy - I care about how they coach. Can they build confidence? Can they produce skill under pressure in the players? Can they make the players want to kill for the jumper? Hird was a gentleman footballer but his players are playing kamakaze football with run, fire and intensity. I want a coach that can produce similar.

Our assistant coaches team is a dilemma. I reckon West is doing a good job because when we have Sylvia, Moloney, Jones, Trengove, Scully, Gysberts, Bail, McKenzie with Jamar, and Martin is coming on im leaps and bounds, they set up and play OK. I am unsure about Royal, unsure about Mahoney, unsure about O'Donnell (he has no runs on the board at all) and very unsure about Dunbar. If we do get a new coach in 2012 I hope their assistant coaches have better resumes and evidence of success than our current lot.

.

[beelzebub 23,347]

Kinda funny all those suggesting Vineys a lame assistant. , for hes not even an assistant. His role is with player development and has no real involvement in teh training or game day.

He has been a very good assistant.. but it hasnt yet ooccurred at Melbourne.

Maybe its time he did get some hands on.. he might just nudge ( or thump ) a bit of passion and immediacy into some of these skiers !!

[DemonOX 8,791]

So sacking Balme and replacing him with Hutchison had a great effect on our performance? Ditto when Daniher made way for Mark Riley?

Yeah Hutchinson and Riley were real hard nuts on the field. Great defence.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

Last night our forwards spent most of the night in the opposition forward/half along with the ball, when we did get the ball in to our forward line we had no one there. One thing that was glaringly obvious was the Carlton Backs were waiting for the ball and the Melbourne forwards were running back with the flight of the ball. Guess who won most of those contests?

We have no plan, it would seem, to kick a winning score we only seem intent on holding the opposition to a smaller winning margin.

Why don't we have any forwards in our forward line, why do we continue to crowd our opponents defence making it harder for us to clear the ball? The reason we have trouble clearing the ball from defence is a problem of our own making; it's like an under 9's set up where everyone is on the ball and no one in position. We don't have the cattle to gut run/rebound and just get in each others way when we try.

Our games are so congested they aren't worth watching.

Who's fault is this?

I don't know if T. Viney is the answer but sure as Hell Bailey isn't, if the players are following his instructions then they're wrong ones if they aren't then the message isn't getting through. I said before the season started that I had a bad feeling about this year and my feeling was spot on, our season was finished after round five and the rest of the year is just a grind.

Anyone else sick of the early end to our season/s?

[DemonOX 8,791]

Last night our forwards spent most of the night in the opposition forward/half along with the ball, when we did get the ball in to our forward line we had no one there. One thing that was glaringly obvious was the Carlton Backs were waiting for the ball and the Melbourne forwards were running back with the flight of the ball. Guess who won most of those contests?

We have no plan, it would seem, to kick a winning score we only seem intent on holding the opposition to a smaller winning margin.

Why don't we have any forwards in our forward line, why do we continue to crowd our opponents defence making it harder for us to clear the ball? The reason we have trouble clearing the ball from defence is a problem of our own making; it's like an under 9's set up where everyone is on the ball and no one in position. We don't have the cattle to gut run/rebound and just get in each others way when we try.

Our games are so congested they aren't worth watching.

Who's fault is this?

I don't know if T. Viney is the answer but sure as Hell Bailey isn't, if the players are following his instructions then they're wrong ones if they aren't then the message isn't getting through. I said before the season started that I had a bad feeling about this year and my feeling was spot on, our season was finished after round five and the rest of the year is just a grind.

Anyone else sick of the early end to our season/s?

Would be nice for once if they exceeded our expectations which may happen when the change of coach occurs. Cant come soon enough cause next week we will be able to cut and paste all of our comments from this game as we all will be saying the same stuff again.

[deejammin' 2,370]

I know this will probably be howled down by members far more knowledgable than I, however I personally think Daniher gets a bit too much flack on here. Daniher took us deep into finals twice in his first four years, and the other years whilst bad, weren't nearly the pathetic excuses we have been recieving under Bailey.

Now some would say Daniher had better cattle, or that Bailey chose the development approach whilst Daniher took the players he had to another level. What I would say is something I have said already in another thread; There seems to be a general acceptance both at our club and in the footy community in general that this bottom out development track is a workable, smart decision. In my opinion it is as yet unproven. St Kilda and Carlton are the most recent examples, and neither has won a premiership to date, and their periods of improvement have come mainly on the back of the aquisition of Judd for Carlton (very little ground up development there and its worth noting they completely bottomed out far longer than they expected from 02-09) or the new gameplan of Ross Lyon at St Kilda, until which point they had under performed. Teams like Collingwood and Geelong never did the complete bottom out play the youth rebuild that we are attempting, neither came last or tanked and neither cleared out as many senior players in the name of improvement as Melbourne.

My point here is that Bailey and Melbourne chose the development approach out of nescessity, that we had very few senior players with workable bodies, and also because it would take the heat off our club at a time when we really needed some support from the Media and the AFL. This was our bed and now we are lying in it, other approaches, such as Daniher's, Worsfold's, Hird's, Thompson' etc. Did not rely on playing our worst and continually excusing unbelievably bad performances for 3 years on the back of a 'development' philosophy. I think we are playing a dangerous game with Bailey as there is no guarentee that his philosophy even works, let alone is the right mindset to impose on our list. I think he should coach out the year, but that serious questions need to be asked both about our direction and about why clubs like West Coast and Essendon are showing so much more than us at this stage.

Yes we were injured against Carlton, yes they are a better team as of now, but very little we showed last night led me to believe we are developing a positive mentality or imbuing our players with the skills and football knowledge to gain future success, we basically gave up the game from the start and played to make the margin look not so bad...

[Hannabal 4]

Dean Bailey is a fantastic coach and he has my full support.

[Geddy Lee 582]

Dean Bailey is a fantastic coach and he has my full support.

Someone has lost the plot.

Some sage observers at the start of this year thought Melbourne would stagnate badly this year because more load would be put on the younger players.

We have stagnated badly, yet the culpable parties are not the younger guys, but the senior players and, in particular, the ghastly coaching of Dean Bailey. Whilst we lost Wellman, DB has been left behind by every other coach in the AFL, and any other senior manager would get fired for running his organisation into last position: inept, lost, listless, lifeless and unorganised.

I would like the see the back on him as soon as possible, and I have supported him 100% before this year. We had no idea if he could coach before 2011; now we know.

Edited May 28, 2011 by Geddy Lee

[jabberwocky 2,301]

Yes let's bring in Todd Viney, no coaching exeperience, but has won a premiership as an assistant so he must be good right..............

[Eth 4]

Yes let's bring in Todd Viney, no coaching exeperience, but has won a premiership as an assistant so he must be good right..............

Hey, James Hird coached under 9s, and now look at Essendon...

[mrtwister 652]

Daniel Bradshaw Knee Indefinite

Kieren Jack Ankle 1-2 weeks

Jed Lamb Hamstring Available

Mike Pyke Quad 1-2 weels

Gary Rohan Knee 4-6 weeks

Matt Spangher Hamstring 1 week

Shane Mumford

This is Sydney's injury list. Compare it to our list and then consider they are losing to NM 21-0 as i write this.

Let's not expect too much from our boys.

I have no doubt we would have been all over Carlton last night without any major players out for as long as we have had them out.

In one way, I understand the defensive approach the coaching staff took last night. Imagine the uproar if we lost by 90+ points regardless of whether we played aggressive or not.

He was possibly thinking back to WC and thinking what could have helped and started with that instead of the possibility of a 1st quarter blow out.

[DemonOX 8,791]

Yes let's bring in Todd Viney, no coaching exeperience, but has won a premiership as an assistant so he must be good right..............

And your solution is ..............................................................