Carlton dilemma over Brock McLean's spot against Melbourne

[Goodvibes 3,596]

Trading Moloney is going to tear the playing group. He is a real leader, and the boys love him. I don't think a young group of guys is going to appreciate seeing one of their best mates and leader being stabbed in the back and shipped off for yet more draft picks.

There is a lot to be said for players believing the club they play for is going to look after them. Given the recent iffy departures of McLean, Junior and Bruce (all of which I completely support btw), it's time we gain a bit of trust back. You can't just [censored] off a player who is a leader and in top form, just because you don't think he'll still be on fire 4 seasons down the track.

I agree entirely Jaded. I was just responding to the assertion that Jones or Moloney would be worth little in a trade scenario. Having said that, Hawthorn traded Croad and the team understood why and they drafted their current captain and Croad was still willing to return to the club.

[DemonWA 3,658]

Moloney or Jones.

Getting rid of Moloney or Jones is a bad idea IMO. Last thing we need to do is get rid of more of our leaders/experience.

[hardtack 10,187]

Getting rid of Moloney or Jones is a bad idea IMO. Last thing we need to do is get rid of more of our leaders/experience.

I get the feeling the same people suggesting Moloney or Jones are good trade currency will be adding Scully to the list if he doesn't get 30 touches per game from day one of his return from injury.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I get the feeling the same people suggesting Moloney or Jones are good trade currency will be adding Scully to the list if he doesn't get 30 touches per game from day one of his return from injury.

and the same ones who suggested McLean was dispensible . . . hang on.

Please don't compare Scully with Moloney or Jones.

[hardtack 10,187]

Please don't compare Scully with Moloney or Jones.

yes you're right, I shouldn't... he is yet to prove himself.

[rpfc 27,692]

and the same ones who suggested McLean was dispensible . . . hang on.

Please don't compare Scully with Moloney or Jones.

I can back the McLean was dispensible argument with, well, reality.

Davey was very good last year.

Moloney is an elite clearance player.

Jones is having a very good season.

These are all facts.

[hardtack 10,187]

I can back the McLean was dispensible argument with, well, reality.

Davey was very good last year.

Moloney is an elite clearance player.

Jones is having a very good season.

These are all facts.

Since when have facts had any currency around here?

[Guest Gotzy15]

hardtack i reckon you need to take your jones blinkers off mate.if another team were interested in him we'd be stupid not to think about it long and hard. He wont be in our best 22 when we have scully,Trengove,Gysberts,Moloney,Sylvia,Bail,Grimes and Davey all ahead of him as midfielders.Then we have young guys like McKenzie,Evans Nicholson and blease for depth so i dont see a spot for a good c grader in our midfield if we could get a key forward in a trade.

[The Chazz 4,077]

hardtack i reckon you need to take your jones blinkers off mate.if another team were interested in him we'd be stupid not to think about it long and hard. He wont be in our best 22 when we have scully,Trengove,Gysberts,Moloney,Sylvia,Bail,Grimes and Davey all ahead of him as midfielders.Then we have young guys like McKenzie,Evans Nicholson and blease for depth so i dont see a spot for a good c grader in our midfield if we could get a key forward in a trade.

Gotzy, the thing is that the Club is fully aware that we need approx 12-14 players in our 22 each week that can be rotated through the midfield. While we live in hope that Evans, Nicholson, Blease and even Viney come on, the reality is we know what we have got with Nathan, and he has improved this year andis becomming a more than handy footballer.

Nathan just played his 100th game, we are lacking in the leadership department. If we were offered something for him at the end of the year, or even next year, he'll be closing in on being a 125-150 game player at what, 24 or 25 years old? Why would we throw that away, providing he doesn't go backward in his development, to risk it on a newbie that might not make it?

[Guest Artie Bucco]

Since when have facts had any currency around here?

Those very facts are the reason those players would have significant currency at the trade table.

Moloney has been great, but he'll still never be in the same bracket as Hodge, Bartel, Ablett, Pavlich, Goodes, Pendlebury, Judd.

He's not even in the same bracket as Steve Johnson, Goddard, Mitchell, Enright, Riewoldt.

If we could get a really early draft pick for him, I'd do it.

I'd especially do it for one of those 17 year old draft picks from GWS.

Every man has his price - I'd trade Scully for 2 x number 1 picks in a heartbeat.

Bearing in mind, it would be next year we'd be without Moloney, when we'd have another preseason into McKenzie, Gysberts, Scully, Trengove, Jones, Bail, Evans, Tapscott, Blease, Maric, Grimes, Morton, Jetta, Bennell all guys we need to rotate through the midfield.

[hardtack 10,187]

hardtack i reckon you need to take your jones blinkers off mate.if another team were interested in him we'd be stupid not to think about it long and hard. He wont be in our best 22 when we have scully,Trengove,Gysberts,Moloney,Sylvia,Bail,Grimes and Davey all ahead of him as midfielders.Then we have young guys like McKenzie,Evans Nicholson and blease for depth so i dont see a spot for a good c grader in our midfield if we could get a key forward in a trade.

Blinkers or no blinkers, there is no way I would consider him as trade bait. Over last season and now this season Jones has shown consistent improvement whereas players like Davey and Grimes (before his injury) while very good at their best, have been very inconsistent in their performances. And no, before you say it, I am not implying that they should be used as trade bait either - Billy summed it all up pretty well with regards to the numbers we need in order to carry out our rotations.

Jones is young, is dedicated, is one of the few showing any kind of leadership, is improving to the point where his kicking is reliable and always to advantage. He is also becoming one of our best possession winners. I would offer up someone like Rivers well before I would even think about offering Jones (and the perception of Rivers skills is probably greater at other clubs, than that of Jones).

[DemonWA 3,658]

Jones is young, coachable, passionate and has 100 games to his name already. He's 23. He's a keeper.

People mark him hard becasue he doesnt have the excuse/extra time afforded to skinnier blokes. People around here are happy to stick with guys like Watts, Bennel, Strauss for years and years but want to trade a 23 year old showing consistant improvement

[DemonDave 1,078]

Some more quality journalism from everyones favorite trash-rag the Herald Sun.

Check out the snippet from this article: Its Not Too Hard Being Green

"Green's teammate Brock McLean said the team would keep faith in second-string ruckman Stefan Martin in the absence of Mark Jamar.

''Obviously Jamar is a massive loss - he's an all-Australian ruckman - and hopefully we get him back soon," Moloney said today. "

Edited May 25, 2011 by DemonDave

[H_T 2,941]

OMG. It's not Ralphy again, is it ?

edit: No, Horan

They sort of fixed it by replacing it with "Monloney"

Is there anyone in this world that can get his name right ?!

[Guest Artie Bucco]

They appear to either think we're playing on Thursday, or that it is Thursday today.

Not sure what is more likely with these nuffies.

The Demons, who face Carlton at the MCG tomorrow night, have slipped to 10th with just three wins and a draw from eight outings. Essendon and Collingwood follow the Blues clash.

[Guest Thomo]

hardtack i reckon you need to take your jones blinkers off mate.if another team were interested in him we'd be stupid not to think about it long and hard. He wont be in our best 22 when we have scully,Trengove,Gysberts,Moloney,Sylvia,Bail,Grimes and Davey all ahead of him as midfielders.Then we have young guys like McKenzie,Evans Nicholson and blease for depth so i dont see a spot for a good c grader in our midfield if we could get a key forward in a trade.

Putting a player that has never played due to serious injury, one that has never played and is not even on the senior list, and a rookie listed player with one game, in front of a player currently in the best 22 at 23 years of age with 100 games experience is ridiculous.

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Putting a player that has never played due to serious injury, one that has never played and is not even on the senior list, and a rookie listed player with one game, in front of a player currently in the best 22 at 23 years of age with 100 games experience is ridiculous.

that's the way it works around here

if you are 18 you are the next Wayne Carey if you are 23 you are a washed up hack with no heart that should be traded immediately

[jabberwocky 2,301]

hardtack i reckon you need to take your jones blinkers off mate.if another team were interested in him we'd be stupid not to think about it long and hard. He wont be in our best 22 when we have scully,Trengove,Gysberts,Moloney,Sylvia,Bail,Grimes and Davey all ahead of him as midfielders.Then we have young guys like McKenzie,Evans Nicholson and blease for depth so i dont see a spot for a good c grader in our midfield if we could get a key forward in a trade.

We have put 5 years into him. He is a resilient, well built, skilled and determined ball winner who takes responsibility. We want to change the Melbourne ethos we do it on the back of a player like Jones. Still has improvement left.

When he finishes his career will end up one of the most respected Melbourne players in the modern era. Currently near the very top of the untradeable list and set to stay there.

[Goodvibes 3,596]

I can back the McLean was dispensible argument with, well, reality.

Davey was very good last year.

Moloney is an elite clearance player.

Jones is having a very good season.

These are all facts.

Firstly, my reference to the McLean trade was clearly an example of sarcasm and secondly, your references to Moloney, Jones and Davey are technically opinions. Davey is in the middle of a dip in form. This is not new to him but I'm still confident that he will give value over the last three years of his contract because the 'kids' around him will allow him to be the cream and not the filling that we currently require him to be. He's never been close to All-Australian selection which says alot about a club who has him as their highest paid player. I respect Moloney and Jones very much but don't see a place for both of them in the same team. If you support the view that McKenzie is/will be a better player than Jones then you can see our problem. Jones is mistakenly referred to as an inside mid. He actually plays very much like Sylvia without the polish and a yard of pace. The club weren't falling over themselves to give him a big fat contract at the end of last season for a reason. Moloney is certainly a heart and soul player and his much discussed connection with Jamar makes him a genuine asset but I'm confident that Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and McKenzie will be considered better clearance players with more tricks up their respective sleeves in the very near future. If we traded one of Moloney or Jones for a tight checking back pocket with pace and good skills I'd support it.

[The Chazz 4,077]

Firstly, my reference to the McLean trade was clearly an example of sarcasm and secondly, your references to Moloney, Jones and Davey are technically opinions. Davey is in the middle of a dip in form. This is not new to him but I'm still confident that he will give value over the last three years of his contract because the 'kids' around him will allow him to be the cream and not the filling that we currently require him to be. He's never been close to All-Australian selection which says alot about a club who has him as their highest paid player. I respect Moloney and Jones very much but don't see a place for both of them in the same team. If you support the view that McKenzie is/will be a better player than Jones then you can see our problem. Jones is mistakenly referred to as an inside mid. He actually plays very much like Sylvia without the polish and a yard of pace. The club weren't falling over themselves to give him a big fat contract at the end of last season for a reason. Moloney is certainly a heart and soul player and his much discussed connection with Jamar makes him a genuine asset but I'm confident that Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and McKenzie will be considered better clearance players with more tricks up their respective sleeves in the very near future. If we traded one of Moloney or Jones for a tight checking back pocket with pace and good skills I'd support it.

It'd want to be a ready-made one that is around 23 years old, and I also wouldn't want to hear one complaint about our midfield being soft and easily bullied. Who do you suggest?

If you can assure me of those things, and thow up a suitable player/deal, I'll look at it, and most likely, along with a majority on here, wee myself from laughter.

[DemonWA 3,658]

Putting a player that has never played due to serious injury, one that has never played and is not even on the senior list, and a rookie listed player with one game, in front of a player currently in the best 22 at 23 years of age with 100 games experience is ridiculous.

Post of the Day! ©

[rpfc 27,692]

Firstly, my reference to the McLean trade was clearly an example of sarcasm and secondly, your references to Moloney, Jones and Davey are technically opinions. Davey is in the middle of a dip in form. This is not new to him but I'm still confident that he will give value over the last three years of his contract because the 'kids' around him will allow him to be the cream and not the filling that we currently require him to be. He's never been close to All-Australian selection which says alot about a club who has him as their highest paid player. I respect Moloney and Jones very much but don't see a place for both of them in the same team. If you support the view that McKenzie is/will be a better player than Jones then you can see our problem. Jones is mistakenly referred to as an inside mid. He actually plays very much like Sylvia without the polish and a yard of pace. The club weren't falling over themselves to give him a big fat contract at the end of last season for a reason. Moloney is certainly a heart and soul player and his much discussed connection with Jamar makes him a genuine asset but I'm confident that Scully, Trengove, Gysberts and McKenzie will be considered better clearance players with more tricks up their respective sleeves in the very near future. If we traded one of Moloney or Jones for a tight checking back pocket with pace and good skills I'd support it.

I realise that if we have the kind of development we wish to see from Gysberts, McKenzie, Scully, and Trengove, then Jones and Moloney will have to be playing very good footy to retain their place.

At the moment they are doing just that.

And to lose their experience would be another step backwards. And by that I don't mean we have taken steps backward in development, by that I mean we have become younger and lost experience EVERY year under Bailey.

Edited May 25, 2011 by rpfc

[Striker475 696]

All the Nathan bashing kind of makes me want to save it and bring it back up in 3-4 years when he's a huge part of the beating heart of our midfield.

[Guest watts04]

get over maclean threads - left ages ago

[Kento80 83]

All the Nathan bashing kind of makes me want to save it and bring it back up in 3-4 years when he's a huge part of the beating heart of our midfield.

Well said Striker. IMO he will prove to be a favoured son by the end of his career. That is unless those in the halls of power at MFC are equally as blind to a players qualities as some on here.