Has anyone actually sat down and looked at the stats of the playing list?

Yes we have no heart, no passion, no intensity, no game plan and an average coach, however there are some glaring facts which can't be discounted:

Last night 2 teams lined up:

Average Attributes

West Coast Attribute Melbourne

188.8cm Height 186.8cm

89.7kg Weight 85.9kg

24yr 4mth Age 23yr 6mth

84.0 Games 62.2

Total Players By Games

WC Games Melbourne

8 - Less than 50 - 11

8 - 50 to 99 - 6

1 - 100 to 149 - 4

5 - 150 or more - 1

Last night Melbourne were shorter, younger and had played on average 20 less games. To highlight the issue they had 4 more players with hardened 150+ game bodies.

The above facts can not be overlooked.

Our player list is at the same level as Richmond.

Richmond

Height 187.1cm

Weight 86.0kg

Age 23yr 6mth

Games 61.7

Total Players By Games

Games

Less than 50 - 11

50 to 99 - 7

100 to 149 - 3

150 or more - 1

In fact the MFC are a mirror image of Richmond. And to make it worse we are a little bit shorter and thinner :-)

We have the second youngest side in the league, second least experienced side, one of the shortest and the thinnest.

No wonder we were man handled last night.

Even though we are statistically on par with Richmond they seem to show more up side then us.

Good post. But don't expect many to discuss here, because they are venting their spleen in other threads.

I think most are concerned with the teams inability to perform under pressure, and the fact they looked terrible last night. It was the Hawks third quarter re-visited and something needs to be done. The concern is that the current coaching regime is stifling their development. They appear to have no answers to the forward press being adopted by most clubs that are competent. Failure to address it is incompetent, despite the age of our team.

We lack leadership on the ground as well as off it.

It hurts serving that up anytime, especially on the big stage like last night.

I reckon a Brendan McCartney would have more of an idea in his left [censored]. So I think our club would be derelict in their duty not to look at it. Due diligence. Maybe they already are ? I'd be interested to know the findings from the review....

Good post. But don't expect many to discuss here, because they are venting their spleen in other threads.

I think most are concerned with the teams inability to perform under pressure, and the fact they looked terrible last night. It was the Hawks third quarter re-visited and something needs to be done. The concern is that the current coaching regime is stifling their development. They appear to have no answers to the forward press being adopted by most clubs that are competent. Failure to address it is incompetent, despite the age of our team.

We lack leadership on the ground as well as off it.

It hurts serving that up anytime, especially on the big stage like last night.

I reckon a Brendan McCartney would have more of an idea in his left [censored]. So I think our club would be derelict in their duty not to look at it. Due diligence.

Maybe they already are ? I'd be interested to know the findings from the review....

Great post.

Honestly I don't care about how much we lost by last night, it's simply the manner in which we did.

Has anyone actually sat down and looked at the stats of the playing list?

Yes we have no heart, no passion, no intensity, no game plan and an average coach, however there are some glaring facts which can't be discounted:

Last night 2 teams lined up:

Average Attributes

West Coast Attribute Melbourne

188.8cm Height 186.8cm

89.7kg Weight 85.9kg

24yr 4mth Age 23yr 6mth

84.0 Games 62.2

Total Players By Games

WC Games Melbourne

8 - Less than 50 - 11

8 - 50 to 99 - 6

1 - 100 to 149 - 4

5 - 150 or more - 1

Last night Melbourne were shorter, younger and had played on average 20 less games. To highlight the issue they had 4 more players with hardened 150+ game bodies.

The above facts can not be overlooked.

Our player list is at the same level as Richmond.

Richmond

Height 187.1cm

Weight 86.0kg

Age 23yr 6mth

Games 61.7

Total Players By Games

Games

Less than 50 - 11

50 to 99 - 7

100 to 149 - 3

150 or more - 1

In fact the MFC are a mirror image of Richmond. And to make it worse we are a little bit shorter and thinner :-)

We have the second youngest side in the league, second least experienced side, one of the shortest and the thinnest.

No wonder we were man handled last night.

Even though we are statistically on par with Richmond they seem to show more up side then us.

Here's a couple of stats for you ...

West Coast won the wooden spoon in 2010.

We finished on eight and a half wins and were supposedly heading in the right direction.

It's time to stop this rot now while we still have time to salvage something from this season.

The coach must go.

Good post. But don't expect many to discuss here, because they are venting their spleen in other threads.

I think most are concerned with the teams inability to perform under pressure, and the fact they looked terrible last night. It was the Hawks third quarter re-visited and something needs to be done. The concern is that the current coaching regime is stifling their development. They appear to have no answers to the forward press being adopted by most clubs that are competent. Failure to address it is incompetent, despite the age of our team.

We lack leadership on the ground as well as off it.

It hurts serving that up anytime, especially on the big stage like last night.

I reckon a Brendan McCartney would have more of an idea in his left [censored]. So I think our club would be derelict in their duty not to look at it. Due diligence. Maybe they already are ? I'd be interested to know the findings from the review....

100% correct.

Has anyone actually sat down and looked at the stats of the playing list?

Yes we have no heart, no passion, no intensity, no game plan and an average coach, however there are some glaring facts which can't be discounted:

Last night 2 teams lined up:

Average Attributes

West Coast Attribute Melbourne

188.8cm Height 186.8cm

89.7kg Weight 85.9kg

24yr 4mth Age 23yr 6mth

84.0 Games 62.2

Total Players By Games

WC Games Melbourne

8 - Less than 50 - 11

8 - 50 to 99 - 6

1 - 100 to 149 - 4

5 - 150 or more - 1

Last night Melbourne were shorter, younger and had played on average 20 less games. To highlight the issue they had 4 more players with hardened 150+ game bodies.

The above facts can not be overlooked.

Our player list is at the same level as Richmond.

Richmond

Height 187.1cm

Weight 86.0kg

Age 23yr 6mth

Games 61.7

Total Players By Games

Games

Less than 50 - 11

50 to 99 - 7

100 to 149 - 3

150 or more - 1

In fact the MFC are a mirror image of Richmond. And to make it worse we are a little bit shorter and thinner :-)

We have the second youngest side in the league, second least experienced side, one of the shortest and the thinnest.

No wonder we were man handled last night.

Even though we are statistically on par with Richmond they seem to show more up side then us.

Great to seem some perspective amongst the frustration - good post.

Good post. But don't expect many to discuss here, because they are venting their spleen in other threads.

I think most are concerned with the teams inability to perform under pressure, and the fact they looked terrible last night. It was the Hawks third quarter re-visited and something needs to be done. The concern is that the current coaching regime is stifling their development. They appear to have no answers to the forward press being adopted by most clubs that are competent. Failure to address it is incompetent, despite the age of our team.

We lack leadership on the ground as well as off it.

It hurts serving that up anytime, especially on the big stage like last night.

I reckon a Brendan McCartney would have more of an idea in his left [censored]. So I think our club would be derelict in their duty not to look at it. Due diligence. Maybe they already are ? I'd be interested to know the findings from the review....

Again, well said.

Great post.

Honestly I don't care about how much we lost by last night, it's simply the manner in which we did.

Ditto.

I never expected to win this game but the extent of the complete and utter on-field chaos was embarrassing unacceptable.

Surprised? Here is my tip from last night: "WC was s**t 2010, but beat Melbourne in Melbourne. WC are better in 2011, we are worse. Footy Maths does not lie."

Gotta agree with everything on this page. Yes, the stats show that we are young, short, thin, but they say nothing of drive, will to win, ticker the list goes on. I am reminded of watching the bummers last year. They were useless and heartless, and look at them now. Only difference is the coaching structure. Says enough for me.

It was an awful game. We were awful. It was awful to watch. Our ability to pressure was poor and our ability to deal with pressure was also poor.

But it's also obvious that we were physically monstered across the field by a bigger and more mature side. Sure, they can't kick, but they can win the contested ball and that is where we were absolutely smashed last night.

Unfortunately our big bodied mature players are also our least classy players. Moloney and Jones are poor decision makers (especially in tight) and Sylvia is more of a power runner than a true inside midfielder. Where we lacked was our ability to deal in close confines. It is actually our kids that are the best at it, but they are not physically big enough yet to do it. Our best at it was clearly Trengove. Gysberts usually is but he was physically monstered. I thought Bennell also did well in these situations, but doesn't get enough of it.

I think that people have overrated how good we are, and perhaps the players themselves have read some of the hype. Our mature players aren't that good, and our kids aren't big enough yet. The club spent the preseason clearly trying to put a dampener on expectations, but I'm not sure that message was heard by all.

And, before anyone tells me, I know how bad we were last night.

It's more than a fair point.

But for how long can we look to our youth and inexperience as a waiver for poor performances?

Fact is, younger and more inexperienced sides can still show effort and skill. They might be pushed around, or run out of puff, or make mistakes, but they should not be playing like we did last night.

Moreover, how did West Coast surpass us so quickly?

The inexperience cannot be the excuse for last night. Gold Coast are more inexperienced and give it a red hot go every week. So does every other side. No other side rolls over like we have in the first quarter of four games this season.

We are clearly better than Gold Coast. They are inexperienced and get smashed nearly every week. We are the second least experienced and are clearly better.

Going on stats, we are bottom 4. If we finish any higher than that it's a function of our talent.

Moreover, how did West Coast surpass us so quickly?

Were we ever ahead of them titan_ ?

We are clearly better than Gold Coast. They are inexperienced and get smashed nearly every week. We are the second least experienced and are clearly better.

Going on stats, we are bottom 4. If we finish any higher than that it's a function of our talent.

I'm not saying we're worse than Gold Coast, just the most disappointing part is that the players just don't come out and give it a go.

Has anyone actually sat down and looked at the stats of the playing list?

Yes we have no heart, no passion, no intensity, no game plan and an average coach, however there are some glaring facts which can't be discounted:

Last night 2 teams lined up:

Average Attributes

West Coast Attribute Melbourne

188.8cm Height 186.8cm

89.7kg Weight 85.9kg

24yr 4mth Age 23yr 6mth

84.0 Games 62.2

Total Players By Games

WC Games Melbourne

8 - Less than 50 - 11

8 - 50 to 99 - 6

1 - 100 to 149 - 4

5 - 150 or more - 1

Last night Melbourne were shorter, younger and had played on average 20 less games. To highlight the issue they had 4 more players with hardened 150+ game bodies.

The above facts can not be overlooked.

Our player list is at the same level as Richmond.

Richmond

Height 187.1cm

Weight 86.0kg

Age 23yr 6mth

Games 61.7

Total Players By Games

Games

Less than 50 - 11

50 to 99 - 7

100 to 149 - 3

150 or more - 1

In fact the MFC are a mirror image of Richmond. And to make it worse we are a little bit shorter and thinner :-)

We have the second youngest side in the league, second least experienced side, one of the shortest and the thinnest.

No wonder we were man handled last night.

Even though we are statistically on par with Richmond they seem to show more up side then us.

Do not disagree with any of that.

But Richmond would kill us right now, because Hardwick has got them playing with PASSION.

It's the way we lost last night from the FIRST BOUNCE, the game was over.

The side has no leaders and after 4 years that is not acceptable.

It was an awful game. We were awful. It was awful to watch. Our ability to pressure was poor and our ability to deal with pressure was also poor.

But it's also obvious that we were physically monstered across the field by a bigger and more mature side. Sure, they can't kick, but they can win the contested ball and that is where we were absolutely smashed last night.

Unfortunately our big bodied mature players are also our least classy players. Moloney and Jones are poor decision makers (especially in tight) and Sylvia is more of a power runner than a true inside midfielder. Where we lacked was our ability to deal in close confines. It is actually our kids that are the best at it, but they are not physically big enough yet to do it. Our best at it was clearly Trengove. Gysberts usually is but he was physically monstered. I thought Bennell also did well in these situations, but doesn't get enough of it.

I think that people have overrated how good we are, and perhaps the players themselves have read some of the hype. Our mature players aren't that good, and our kids aren't big enough yet. The club spent the preseason clearly trying to put a dampener on expectations, but I'm not sure that message was heard by all.

And, before anyone tells me, I know how bad we were last night.

Good summation.

Also, we're a very poorly organised football side that doesn't have any idea how to handle zones or the forward press. We were constantly out-numbered around the ball in every part of the ground.

Were we ever ahead of them titan_ ?

Of course, last year. Sure, we lost to them, but our overall brand of football and the future we saw in our youngsters was well ahead of what anyone saw coming out of West Coast.

It was an awful game. We were awful. It was awful to watch. Our ability to pressure was poor and our ability to deal with pressure was also poor.

But it's also obvious that we were physically monstered across the field by a bigger and more mature side. Sure, they can't kick, but they can win the contested ball and that is where we were absolutely smashed last night.

Unfortunately our big bodied mature players are also our least classy players. Moloney and Jones are poor decision makers (especially in tight) and Sylvia is more of a power runner than a true inside midfielder. Where we lacked was our ability to deal in close confines. It is actually our kids that are the best at it, but they are not physically big enough yet to do it. Our best at it was clearly Trengove. Gysberts usually is but he was physically monstered. I thought Bennell also did well in these situations, but doesn't get enough of it.

I think that people have overrated how good we are, and perhaps the players themselves have read some of the hype. Our mature players aren't that good, and our kids aren't big enough yet. The club spent the preseason clearly trying to put a dampener on expectations, but I'm not sure that message was heard by all.

And, before anyone tells me, I know how bad we were last night.

Good post. I agree with most of that. Just a few comments. Jamar while great around the ground is actually not getting his hitouts to our players, unlike last year. The ball either goes to a contest or the other side. That is hurting us at stoppages, look what Cox did last night. Chip had his worst game for the club. Green and Davey are non existent and Davey looks embarrasingly scared on the ground. Aussie, Gysberts, Morton and a few others also had absolute shockers.

When we got the ball there was no one forward to kick it to and for that the Coaching panel must take the blame.

What also worries me is that our skills appear to have regressed badly. When we have the ball and even without pressure we kick it out of bounds or to the opposition and create their goals. Last night 8.7 or 55 points of the Eagles first 64 points came from our turnovers. I have never seen such a stat before, let alone 3 inside 50's to their 22 for the 1st quarter.

Our tackling or lack of it and the ineffectiveness of attempts was sub standard, though you would argue young bodies, but we also have senior bodies and their youngsters were tackling us effectively.

Our game plan is just plain pathetic and with all of the other problems this kills everything. A hard big body is so badly needed up forward that I am looking at Juice as the temporary solution.

I think our supporters are now clearly getting the message, we are not that good. Pity is that other teams who seemed the same are getting better quickly and going past us without much change in playing personnel.

There's being younger, shorter, lighter and more inexperienced.

And then there's not displaying any intensity, heart and effort. THAT is crossing the line, and that is why Demonland is imploding with [censored] off paid up members.

We are clearly better than Gold Coast. They are inexperienced and get smashed nearly every week. We are the second least experienced and are clearly better.

Going on stats, we are bottom 4. If we finish any higher than that it's a function of our talent.

In case you were wondering AoB, you are right. We were monstered, they are bigger, cleaner with execution and more experienced. Bigger bodies makes a hell of a difference.

I have no doubt that some of the excitement from 2010, has many in a spin. With the the loss of some experienced heads, plus injuries that put a dent in the dynamics of our midfield - it was always going to be difficult to improve on 2010, especially introducing new blood as well. Because of some excitement in 2010, in order to see what might transpire in 2011 you have to scratch the surface, to understand.

That said, the question remains (which was a focus on the review by the club), are we (our clubs young players) being fast tracked enough; in keeping up with the developments of the game ?

TBH, I honestly don't know the answer to that. Those at the coalface - let's leave it to them.

I have no doubt, that many, even from those within the industry, overrated us.

There's being younger, shorter, lighter and more inexperienced.

And then there's not displaying any intensity, heart and effort. THAT is crossing the line, and that is why Demonland is imploding with [censored] off paid up members.

Correct.

There's being younger, shorter, lighter and more inexperienced.

And then there's not displaying any intensity, heart and effort. THAT is crossing the line, and that is why Demonland is imploding with [censored] off paid up members.

100% agree. The problem was not getting beaten because of the size, it was not getting the numbers to the ball. WC won the contests because they had more players there, while Davey, Sylvia, Jurrah, Green Bennell and Morton was walking fifty metres from the contest, WC players were getting the ball in numbers.

Melbourne are a lazy football club, and it is only the young light bodied players who have not had their desire coached out of them that are making an effort.

Green and Davey are non existent

Indeed.

Bruce and McDonald are gone, while guys like MacDonald, Warnock and Bate aren't being picked.

The aforementioned have been replacec by youngsters while two of our most senior players, Green and Davey, are having no impact.

When you think about it like that it's not so surprising that we're struggling.

When we got the ball there was no one forward to kick it to and for that the Coaching panel must take the blame.

Absolutely. I know I've carped on about this problem a bit - not as much as CB, granted - but I just can't understand it.

it is only the young light bodied players who have not had their desire coached out of them that are making an effort.

Their desire to run to a contest has been coached out of them? Come off it. The ludicrous nature of this comment is evidenced by the fact you mentioned Bennell in that group - he's been the same since the start.

The press won Collingwood a Premiership. So to win a Premiership you need to beat it. We can't even kick out from fullback after a point. Last night's tactic was to kick it toward the boundary in the vague direction of Watts and co. Bizarre. When the kicker plays on no one shepherds. Strange. They cleared it with ease and not only beat us in contested possession but pantsed us with uncontested possession as well. Meaning they worked alot harder than we did to firstly man up and then to create space. Our lack of organised gameplan is starting to look silly. Expecting our players to handball out of congestion at half aback and then kick it over the flood is laughable, problem being, we don't find it funny. Something's going to give.

Some other observations:

If Darling was rated as a top 3 prospect all along and we are crying out for big bodied players why the hell didn't we pick him at 12.

I though Watts had his best game for the season

Have we recruited too many small bodied players. Terry Wallace anyone.

Frawley is horribly out of form

Green is seriously struggling with the captaincy

Wonaeamirri, Jurrah, Bennell, Morton all disappear when the heat is on. Finals anyone.

Martin's development continues..

Yeah, we are getting sweet FA from Green and Davey. To be fair, the pressure game doesn't really suit Green at all. Certainly not like the older game. On the other hand Davey doesn't run hard enough at all. He's easy to tag because he doesn't work hard and doesn't do enough defensively in the midfield.

Without any output from our 'best' players, we are struggling. Sylvia is the only mature player who is consistently dangerous, as well as Jamar and Moloney (who lacks class).

We are clearly not focusing purely on winning games this year, but I want to see more intensity. Rodney Eade was asked how you beat Collingwood. He said that you need to match their intensity for 120 minutes. Not 100, not 110, but the full 120. We had good intensity for very brief period, but overall it was dismal.

How much was our lack of intensity a result of playing Gold Coast and then having a bye? Players going to the break thinking they were better than what they were since they could win by 90 points without ever having to play with top level intensity.