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Why are we so suprised?


bandicoot

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living in the past...i think we are! round 1 against hawthawn 2008 we were flogged: no game plan, no heart, no passion, no endevour, no understanding fast forward to last night and no game plan, no heart, no passion, no endevour, no understanding!! 4 years later and we are still no closer to seeing any improvement, i like dean but really after 4 years there is still no improvement its time to go. If we keep him then thses players that COULD be the superstars of the comp will end up as OK at best players just like Travis Johnstone. Aaron Davey and Colin Sylvia are heading towards that road too. If we are not carefull Jack Watts, Tom Scully and Trengove will end up going down the same road.

A worse situation is they might move to Hawthorn, Collingwood, Geelong or even GWS.

How much further back would they be than at the Dees

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Dee-luded last year they were well behind us.

Now they are 1.5 years ahead?

Bailey selected a list full of kids, my complaint is a few more mature bodies e.g. Darling would be a big help while the skinny ones develop.

I think our Skinny Kids only drafting policy will hurt us for years.

A lot of them may never develop properly or move to teams with more on field support.

Geez, you can't tell when a club is lying down to rebuild. The eagles have been doing a (colliwobble of 2005/06)...

http://www.footywire...ar=2005&t=N&s=P

http://www.footywire...ar=2006&t=N&s=P

The Weagles have been quietly doing the same. I've been trying to say it last year but no one wanted to hear it.

They have never been, Behind us, because of their Grand Final proven players, who mysteriously performed poorly for a season or 2, or 3...

This is why people are screaming, because They thought the weagles were gone!!! when in fact they were not. They were trying to rebuild from their losses of Judd and Cousins, etc,,, at the same time as the Flood, Zone and Press, were introduced to the game.

Edited by dee-luded
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They wanted to re establish the house of pain and we rolled over and bloody let them. Im moving to WA in 2 weeks. Might take the stickers off the car.

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OUTCOACHED : Our gameplan is easily defeated by a competent opposition.

CONFIDENCE: Once our gameplan is defeated, simple footballing tasks and skills seem very difficult. Doubt creeps into everything, doubt of your self, your team mates, your coaches.

RUNNING: Once confidence is lost, sometimes subconsciously so is the will to run and demand the footy.

I said a few weeks ago after the Brisbane game we were one embarassing loss away from a crisis, that time has come. We aren't quite at rock bottom yet, it is clear however that changes need to be struck quickly to become competetive againts competent footy teams.

I look forward to the response. I don't think Bailey is a stupid man, let's see if he is stubborn one.

I agree with you and I don't as well.

The self belief needs to be established, by keeping @ least one extra strong body in the selected sides. at least against the bigger sides. We still need to play as many kids as we can, but please lets pick the games when we'll need more hardness.

IMO, once the self doubt creeps in from the physical intimidation, then the likes of Bennell try to run around opponents instead of passed them or at them and draw them before disposal.

The likes of Tapscott then get frustrated at this intimidation and try to inspire with rough justice.

The likes of Davey gets unsure of just what to do.

And the likes of Grimes, who doesn't like the forward press, starts to struggle with his decision making. Time for him to go to the middle. But who is ready for the Flank??? (the Fire & Oven analogy) Grimes IMO would be like a Lenny Hayes type mid.

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You can say they were well behind us last year but it was mainly because their senior players were either injured or playing crap (as most of our senior players are doing now).

Now with a bit of confidence they are playing well and are back in form.

How many players did they have playing last night who were in their Premiership teams and/or at the club in that era?

That is one of the main reasons they can improve so quickly.

They were never that bad last year in regards to their list, just playing shizen.

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Geez, you can't tell when a club is lying down to rebuild. The eagles have been doing a (colliwobble of 2005/06)...

http://www.footywire...ar=2005&t=N&s=P

http://www.footywire...ar=2006&t=N&s=P

The Weagles have been quietly doing the same. I've been trying to say it last year but no one wanted to hear it.

They have never been, Behind us, because of their Grand Final proven players, who mysteriously performed poorly for a season or 2, or 3...

This is why people are screaming, because They thought the weagles were gone!!! when in fact they were not. They were trying to rebuild from their losses of Judd and Cousins, etc,,, at the same time as the Flood, Zone and Press, were introduced to the game.

It was quite obvious. Slightly amused that people actually thought they were "behind us" - they're only looking at it from a ladder position.

You can say they were well behind us last year but it was mainly because their senior players were either injured or playing crap (as most of our senior players are doing now).

Now with a bit of confidence they are playing well and are back in form.

How many players did they have playing last night who were in their Premiership teams and/or at the club in that era?

That is one of the main reasons they can improve so quickly.

They were never that bad last year in regards to their list, just playing shizen.

Correct.

That said, it doesn't excuse our poor showing.

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Good post. I agree with most of that. Just a few comments. Jamar while great around the ground is actually not getting his hitouts to our players, unlike last year.

Says more about our midfield than it does about Jamar.

Not his fault they can't follow their set plays; he's still getting his fair share of the tap, they're just not there.

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I've got this crazy idea, I may have mentioned it once or twice since round 1, 2007 but I might say it again.

Play the forwards in the forward line. I loved watching Moloney run through the middle with the ball only to find not a single teammate to kick it to. It takes me back to the good old days with Daniher.

While we are at it, play man-on-on. Stuff all this zone rubbish, simple football.

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Every time we loose it's - "we were not ready""we did not have the intencity to play""we did not come to Tackle".

When is Dean going to run out of excusses!!!

Time to go as you have lost the playing group.

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It can't be all mindset. It's also because we don't structure up properly. It was first evident in the Essendon NAB Cup match. We were completely disorganised at the kick ins and had no idea where to run or how to defend when we didn't have the ball. Nothing has changed and I firmly and squarely blame Bailey. Let's cut to the chase. He has a pox gameplan and has been completely caught off-guard over summer. Alistair Clarkson realized after round 6 last year that the game had changed and they'd been caught unawares. They changed their gameplan from that moment on. I knew that we'd been caught unaware a month ago and haven't seen one change in our gameplan. I've been patient, but it's fair to say that in his FOURTH year I don't think I'm going early when I say he's sh#t.

Now Snoopster, read this article by Gerard Healy dated 25 February.

It's titled "Pressing issues for Bailey". Hmm, nice play on words there.

Here tis:

http://www.foxsports.com.au/afl/afl-premiership/melbourne-demons-must-overhaul-their-defensive-structure-ahead-of-2011-afl-premiership-season/story-e6frf3e3-1226012075391

Low and behold two months later and NOTHING has changed.

The guy is a joke.

So we hear the same analysis and listen to

a pathetic summary from Bailey

Your completely right either the man doesnt listen or he is an idiot

Perhaps both!

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I've got this crazy idea, I may have mentioned it once or twice since round 1, 2007 but I might say it again.

Play the forwards in the forward line. I loved watching Moloney run through the middle with the ball only to find not a single teammate to kick it to. It takes me back to the good old days with Daniher.

While we are at it, play man-on-on. Stuff all this zone rubbish, simple football.

Add me to the crazy list. We were loose as a goose on Thursday night - complete chaos.

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His game plan might be terrible, I don't know.

You should.

Have a read of Garry Lyon quotes in today's age. He laments Melbourne's high risk high reward gameplan and talks of West Coast's organisation and excellent structures. Blind Freddy can see that we have the worst gameplan in the game.

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I think the issue with our FD is that we seem to keep saying that things will get better with experience without actually thinking about the quality of experience we are gaining.

If we are playing a high risk high reward style and its not working due to inexperience or the way the opposition are playing then we should be flexible enough to change to something that is working to our strengths or shutting down the opposition. The reality is that good teams should be, and are capable of playing to different plans and changing their plan for each team, from game to game, or even within games. We have a talented list and should be capable of finding ways to play that enable us to be competitive. yes we are inexperienced, but the reality is that even inexperienced teams can be effective if they play a style that they feel they can implement and are confident with, or if they are clear about how they will react to oppoisition's plans.

The problem I have with some of the 'we are too inexperienced to play our game plan well' arguments is that it dwells on the premise that we couldn't change our gameplan for different situations, or keep plans that we seem to be unable to acheive on the backburner while we focus on plans that enable us to be competitive and confident. If we are a young inexperienced side I don't see why we would try to play a high risk gameplan, it wuold be far more sensible to play a basic style.

Games like Thursday night do not enable development, development only comes about when players feel they are improving on something, or learning something, not taking 500 steps back when we should be moving forward!

Edited by deejammin'
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I'm not here to defend or destroy gameplans, I'm here to discuss. But your mind is made up, which is fine. There are enough lessons in history to cast serious doubt over your assertion. I'll be interested to see how it pans out.

Yes, I've been brewing to this point for some time, but I doubt that anyone could say I went early when one considers he's in his fourth year. If it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck there's a fair chance it is.

Btw, as you know, every coach in history expects to be sacked at some point. Some get out early like Roos, but if they stay long enough the axe will fall. The great Norm Smith was sacked briefly. So I don't take too much notice of snippets of unrest on supporter forums. Over 9 years I've often been moderate in my views on Daniher and Bailey. This situation is different.

Btw, Worsfold has worked hard on their set-up over summer and it's paying dividends. He and Malthouse at least have some silverware, so I won't take too much notice of the times they've been under heat. It goes with the territory. Other than pruning the list and playing kids Bailey has shown nothing.

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Btw, Worsfold has worked hard on their set-up over summer and it's paying dividends.

Out of interest, do you think our structures can be noticeably changed mid-season to positive effect?

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I believe that we have invested too much in Bailey at this point. We doubled up on a risky bet.

We now need to let it ride for the rest of the year and support him until then.

Otherwise after a quick honeymoon with a new coach the rest of the season will most likely fail with "new structures" being IMO legitimatly blamed. However At the bottom of it I smell the eternal softness of MFC playing group that only disappeared under John Northey.

I have,like a lot of others who are reasonably more discreet(more conservative?)in their keyboard enthusiasm have only now posted the fact that they have now marked Bailey's card.

In ink, not pencil.

Now we need to hold fast to these conclusions even if a few unlikely victories try to sway us.

Looking outside the square?

In my opinion Buckley is available if Malthouse gets a back-to-back. I rate matthew Lloyd as well.

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My crazy idea is that Bailey has formed a crucible that will force out the truth. Now, his run and gun style will ONLY work if the space is created and play is created. That requires hard work off the ball - like norm smith said, the play is created by the blokes WITHOUT the ball. I'd bet that the team has been taught this, but they are not implementing it for a few well-worn reasons. The talent/experience mismatch, the leadership void and the poverty in our midfield. That's it. Once we see a midfield that exerts greater influence, we'll cut teams apart. Our backs will get respite. Our forwards will get supply. I think this is all really simple. The problems are clear but none are quickly fixed. WE have to wait until scully, mcKensie and gysberts have 2-3 years more in them (and are on the park). WE have to see that Jones cannot get a game and that moloney is a bench player. WE have to shed some of the outsiders who have no influence and replace them with outsiders who have influence.

The game plan is there (for the most part). The players are almost there. The culture needs to form up and away we'll go. I expected performances like this because nothing has changed greatly since 2008. WE are just getting the pieces in place. The thing that sucks the hardest is that we look weak, hesitant and disorganised. I think the players are. They can change that. Bailey wont - and can't. They can. It is up to them. All Bailey can do is teach, select, intruct and let them go. Time for the players to decide that they want to play for something and for it to count.

When it comes down to it, I just want someone to hit someone.

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My crazy idea is that Bailey has formed a crucible that will force out the truth. Now, his run and gun style will ONLY work if the space is created and play is created. That requires hard work off the ball - like norm smith said, the play is created by the blokes WITHOUT the ball. I'd bet that the team has been taught this, but they are not implementing it for a few well-worn reasons. The talent/experience mismatch, the leadership void and the poverty in our midfield. That's it. Once we see a midfield that exerts greater influence, we'll cut teams apart. Our backs will get respite. Our forwards will get supply. I think this is all really simple. The problems are clear but none are quickly fixed. WE have to wait until scully, mcKensie and gysberts have 2-3 years more in them (and are on the park). WE have to see that Jones cannot get a game and that moloney is a bench player. WE have to shed some of the outsiders who have no influence and replace them with outsiders who have influence.

The game plan is there (for the most part). The players are almost there. The culture needs to form up and away we'll go. I expected performances like this because nothing has changed greatly since 2008. WE are just getting the pieces in place. The thing that sucks the hardest is that we look weak, hesitant and disorganised. I think the players are. They can change that. Bailey wont - and can't. They can. It is up to them. All Bailey can do is teach, select, intruct and let them go. Time for the players to decide that they want to play for something and for it to count.

When it comes down to it, I just want someone to hit someone.

WTF...................MFCFS

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My mail is that the gameplan hasn't change noticeably but that the implementation has and the return and remotivation (cultural change which was terrible) of several key players has made an enormous difference. It comes from a good source who you know I know.

Snoopy, can you expand on this point without naming names?

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