On 13/04/2011 at 04:03, Demon Land 7 said:

I FEEL LIKE I HAVE TO YELL THIS! HE IS 20 YEARS OLD!!!! WORRYING SIGNS?!?

ANDREW KRAKOURER IS 28 AND JUST CAME OUT OF JAIL AND PEOPLE BLOW SMOKE UP HIS BUM FOR DEVELOPING LAST YEAR.

CHILL OUT!

Watts avoids certain situations on a footy field where others that have gone before him have craved it.

You talk of being 20 ? Kernahan was a star in SA at 20 - kicked 10 in a State match against the Vics and was runner up in the Magarey Medal, Locket was a star at 20, Carey was a star at 20, Brereton was a star at 20, Lloyd kicked 63 goals at 20, Riewoldt won a B&F at 20, Salmon was a star at 19 kicking 63 goals (pre knee), our own David Neitz started out as a skinny kid, but he had courage in spades and made All Australian at 20.

This is an important year for Watts. He needs to start showing an apptetite for the contest. You don't need to be built like a gorilla to demand the ball, to show fierce determination and intensity, or to put your body on the line.

But by all means, keep making excuses.

Interesting to note that when Liam Jurrah was Jack Watts current age he was yet to play a senior game of AFL footy...

  On 13/04/2011 at 03:55, daisycutter said:

lets not resurrect the "basketball" excuse again. He's been playing football since he was a tacker. He knows its a contact sport ok.

its amazing the excuses people come up with for Jack

unused potential is not worth a pinch of shyte

he needs to start showing more improvement, more often, more quicker (sic)

Absolutely, he's been on the list now and done his Year 12. Now he has to carry his weight of expectations and promise.

I think the selectors are making it more difficult for him, in one sense by selecting him when it seems he doesn'r deserve it. IMO this can both help and hinder him. If the players think he doesn't deserve the games, then it may cause some issues.

He has to get on with it a bit.

  On 13/04/2011 at 04:39, satyricon said:

...ah the joy of being on the end of a hard working team where nearly all the players are in form, Hurley must be loving every second of it.........

Melbourne are misfiring on quite a few cylinders at the moment. Jack Watts included , as Bailey goies about tuning the engine, replacing a part with a Gys here and a Wonna there.....should be purring mid season....

I distinctly remember Jack R at Richmond was going to explode this year and be even better, not at the moment because they can't get the ball to him and he is being tripled teamed...

Jack Watts is learning every game, he is working on different aspects of his game etc etc.......just be patient...

Although I think Hurley is being rated a bit high, he did pretty well last year in a bad side.

I dismiss watts first 2 seasons because the 1st one he was still doing year 12 and then a another season to settle in.

Im sick of people putting the kid down. I know he will be a good player but fowards need development. Its because Nic Nat isnt doing much so the media think who can we compare Watts with next.

I will tell you another reason why I want Watts over Hurley. Watts would never assualt a taxi driver.

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:23, dees189227 said:

I will tell you another reason why I want Watts over Hurley. Watts would never assualt a taxi driver.

how do you know? and who cares?

i'd rather have a good footballer than a cleancut good boy thankyouverymuch

maybe I missed all the flags we've won lately with our choir boy culture

ps Brent Moloney?

Without having read any of the first two pages of this thread...

I think it's a pretty fair article. Quite clearly, right now, Hurley is a better player than Watts. But to make the call on their careers now is stupid. Watts started from way, way, further back development-wise, and is still not as physically developed as Hurley. Moreover Watts has a different set of attributes (agility, movement, speed) than Hurley (strength, marking, kicking).

Sure, if Collingwood was asked which one they'd take to add to their list in 2011 it'd be Hurley no question. But that does not mean we erred in picking Watts (in fact nothing will ever make that an error), nor does it mean that Hurley is already destined to be the better player.

Brereton's also right to say that right now Hurley seems more comfortable with the physical contact side of the game than Watts does. Again, that's not to make any call over what Watts will be like further into his career.

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:23, dees189227 said:

I dismiss watts first 2 seasons because the 1st one he was still doing year 12 and then a another season to settle in.

Im sick of people putting the kid down. I know he will be a good player but fowards need development. Its because Nic Nat isnt doing much so the media think who can we compare Watts with next.

I will tell you another reason why I want Watts over Hurley. Watts would never assualt a taxi driver.

I would like to know on what basis you know he will be a good player

Have you seen something great that other supporters

have missed or are you just hoping wishing and wondering like all of us

in my opinion he has showed nothing yet to justify No 1 draft pick

As I said elsewhere Jackie boy has to show something it is up to him to quiet the negative comments It is up to him to perform

It isnt being negative to question his ability HE HAS TO SHOW US or he will just be another player with potential

I hope this weekend he has the opportunity and does just that

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:30, Curry & Beer said:

how do you know? and who cares?

i'd rather have a good footballer than a cleancut good boy thankyouverymuch

maybe I missed all the flags we've won lately with our choir boy culture

ps Brent Moloney?

WELL SAID

THE CLUB APPEARS SOFT TO ALL OTHER CLUBS

TAT IS WHY WE ARE EASILY ROLLED WHEN THE PRESSURE IS ON

MAYBE THE CLUB IS HAPPY TO MAKE UP THE NUMBERS AND BE KNOWN AS THE NICE BOYS CLUB

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:30, Curry & Beer said:

ps Brent Moloney?

Are you equating assaulting a cab driver with being out drinkingat 2:30?

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:53, titan_uranus said:

Without having read any of the first two pages of this thread...

My problem with the article is that it adds nothing to an old debate against a player who essentially cannot defend himself at the moment as he keeps developing. Guys like Robinson, IMO, know that Watts is still a few years away from reaching his potential and is well aware that when that happens relatively few people will recall his article.

He probably wrote the same sort of garbage about Hodge and Goddard. I also find it strange that he's comparing a pick 1 to a pick 5. Would he not say that Hurley has shown more than Nik Nat or Hamish Hartlett?

Hurley has been amazing, and so far it definitely looks as if he'll be the better player of the two. Which of course doesn't mean that Watts won't be a good player (I actually think he's already a good player), or that Watts can't have a better career than Hurley long term. Jack's size, speed, agility and smarts will make him a nightmare to match up on when he builds confidence and our midfield is consistently winning in the guts.

And there can be no recriminations for our recruiters for taking Watts. No team would have taken Hurley with the number one pick. He's one that has just developed incredibly well and has a great hunger and attack of the footy. Good on him!

The one thing I do worry about is how all the scrutiny (this thread included) will affect Watts' development and enthusiasm for football.

  On 13/04/2011 at 05:03, Hannabal said:

You talk of being 20 ? Kernahan was a star in SA at 20 - kicked 10 in a State match against the Vics and was runner up in the Magarey Medal, Locket was a star at 20, Carey was a star at 20, Brereton was a star at 20, Lloyd kicked 63 goals at 20, Riewoldt won a B&F at 20, Salmon was a star at 19 kicking 63 goals (pre knee), our own David Neitz started out as a skinny kid, but he had courage in spades and made All Australian at 20.

great post.

IMO there are a few different schools of thought on JW;

- He's a work in progress, but will be an absolute star in a few year once he has grown and gains confidence

- He's not the power forward we thought we were getting by using the #1 pick for him, but he'll be very good in a few years

- He's no good currently and even in time he wont be a power forward becasue he lacks the desire for the contest, no we wasted a number 1 pick on the type of player you can get later in teh draft.

IMO we as members/supporters were hoping for a once in a generation power forward when we used the #1 selection on a tall. The fact that he quite obviously isnt showing comprable form to the players hannibal listed above at the same ages casues us all to question wheather he'll ever get there.

at the end of the day, if we had used a 2nd round pick on him we wouldnt be scrutinising his every move. Lucas Cook is lucky in that respect - IMO every time he does anything of note it will almost be like a bonus, where as with Watts, everytime he does somthing great we say "so he should, we used a #1 draft pick on this kid!"

  On 13/04/2011 at 07:01, jackaub said:

I would like to know on what basis you know he will be a good player

Have you seen something great that other supporters

have missed or are you just hoping wishing and wondering like all of us

in my opinion he has showed nothing yet to justify No 1 draft pick

As I said elsewhere Jackie boy has to show something it is up to him to quiet the negative comments It is up to him to perform

It isnt being negative to question his ability HE HAS TO SHOW US or he will just be another player with potential

I hope this weekend he has the opportunity and does just that

So you belittle people for their positive opinion of Watts and his future as it is based wishing and wondering, and then offer your opinion.

What the eff do you think your opinion is based on?

Your own wishin' and wonderin'.

Why don't we let a little more of 2011 happen before we judge his 2011.

  On 13/04/2011 at 07:19, DemonWA said:

great post.

IMO there are a few different schools of thought on JW;

- He's a work in progress, but will be an absolute star in a few year once he has grown and gains confidence

- He's not the power forward we thought we were getting by using the #1 pick for him, but he'll be very good in a few years

- He's no good currently and even in time he wont be a power forward becasue he lacks the desire for the contest, no we wasted a number 1 pick on the type of player you can get later in teh draft.

IMO we as members/supporters were hoping for a once in a generation power forward when we used the #1 selection on a tall. The fact that he quite obviously isnt showing comprable form to the players hannibal listed above at the same ages casues us all to question wheather he'll ever get there.

at the end of the day, if we had used a 2nd round pick on him we wouldnt be scrutinising his every move. Lucas Cook is lucky in that respect - IMO every time he does anything of note it will almost be like a bonus, where as with Watts, everytime he does somthing great we say "so he should, we used a #1 draft pick on this kid!"

I also think that there is something in how football is being played these days - last season and this.

Look at last season and the only big forward to dominate was Jack Riewoldt - thats because he stands on heads. Barry Hall did well ( because the dogs were so good at the 100 mph transition), Buddy had good days but didnt dominate as he has previously done and Nick Riewoldt was ok but not up to his previous standards. Look at the forwards who did perform well - Lecras, Green, Didak, Stevie J, even the tiprat. The smaller more agile forwards - that can mark and lead but also crumb. There has been a marked increase in the number of smaller forwards and goal kicking mid fielders in the goal kickers list with the advent of flooding and forwarding pressing.

With the bottling up of one half of the ground it is so much harder for the bigger boys to find space. Comparing the way Carey, Kernahan and even early Nick R played the game compared to what a forward has to cope with now is most unfair.

I would sincerely hate to be a big forward in the modern game.

  On 13/04/2011 at 07:36, nutbean said:

I would sincerely hate to be a big forward in the modern game.

Don't know about that, if you are a certain height and have any sort of space on your opponent, as long as your teammate puts it somewhere near your outstretched hands, it is almost impossible for a defender to spoil the mark because touching the arms, the back, or even taking his eye off the ball will gift the forward a free kick

  On 13/04/2011 at 07:43, Curry & Beer said:

Don't know about that, if you are a certain height and have any sort of space on your opponent, as long as your teammate puts it somewhere near your outstretched hands, it is almost impossible for a defender to spoil the mark because touching the arms, the back, or even taking his eye off the ball will gift the forward a free kick

Thats true - The key is that you are rarely getting any sort of space in the modern game - and after watching our first three games - let me rephrase - I wouldnt like to be a forward the way we are playing the game.

The only way to truely get space is to move the ball quickly. The odd minutes we have done that this year we have looked good.

When we slow the game down and dont take quick options all the space to move in gets clogged up.

A lot of poster have suggested that Watts should have a stint down back. We match him up on Hurley when we meet the Dons next.

  On 13/04/2011 at 07:31, rpfc said:

So you belittle people for their positive opinion of Watts and his future as it is based wishing and wondering, and then offer your opinion.

What the eff do you think your opinion is based on?

Your own wishin' and wonderin'.

Why don't we let a little more of 2011 happen before we judge his 2011.

HEY RPVC JUST WATCH THE GAME FROM JACK AND YOU WILL KNOW

BTW I WANT HIM TO SUCCEED BUT MAKING EVERY EXCUSE AINT GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

  On 12/04/2011 at 12:23, Range Rover said:

Dermie is surprisingly supportive of Jack but saying he is "less comfortable (with body contact) than Hurley" is a concern.

Punching cab drivers doesn't count

Gerard Healy on 3AW suggested that MFC would be derelict in their duties if they didn't seek out Brereton, as a mentor for Watts.

He suggested that Watts talent was undeniable and that should he not make it, it would be a mark against the development team at MFC rather than the recruiting team. Again reiterating his call for MFC to call on Brereton.

Watts was being given a game on potential rather than form was also mentioned.

Spoke well on all fronts and it is obvious that someone like that is needed for Jack. Agreed with all he said.

  On 13/04/2011 at 06:23, dees189227 said:

I dismiss watts first 2 seasons because the 1st one he was still doing year 12 and then a another season to settle in.

Im sick of people putting the kid down. I know he will be a good player but fowards need development. Its because Nic Nat isnt doing much so the media think who can we compare Watts with next.

I will tell you another reason why I want Watts over Hurley. Watts would never assualt a taxi driver.

You know what? if he turns out to the champion we all hope then I don't care.

We need a few mongrels I am tired of the choir boys!

  On 13/04/2011 at 09:03, Red Sox said:

Gerard Healy on 3AW suggested that MFC would be derelict in their duties if they didn't seek out Brereton, as a mentor for Watts.

................

Now that's an idea worth considering. We have not had a gun CHF for .....? can't remember one.

  On 13/04/2011 at 08:37, jackaub said:

HEY RPVC JUST WATCH THE GAME FROM JACK AND YOU WILL KNOW

BTW I WANT HIM TO SUCCEED BUT MAKING EVERY EXCUSE AINT GOING TO MAKE IT HAPPEN

Stop yelling!

Keep calm and carry on.

  On 13/04/2011 at 03:28, Hannabal said:

I see a good AFL player, but the odds are stacked against him being the star we craved.

That is pretty much it in a nutshell.

Everyone wants him to be a star because we "wasted" a number one pick on him.

I don't care if he turns out a star or not, as long as he plays his role in bringing us a premiership.

Watts will be a unique and important player for us in years to come. If he doesn't win a single AA nomination or a single Brownlow vote along the way it won't matter to me one little bit.

He has a role to play and I'm confident he'll be able to play it well for the next 10 years, doing things that separate him from other big key forwards and which will make him hard to match up on.

Who says you have to have an angry bull at FF to win a flag?

  On 13/04/2011 at 08:47, Supermercado said:

Punching cab drivers doesn't count

I'd rather a player that has a mean streak about them and puts fear into the opposition than what we're getting at the moment.