THE TOM SCULLY TO GWS THREAD

[drdrake 3,163]

I'm not to concerned about this Scully situation but I am becoming very angry at all these Journos and other club supporters having a crack about us tanking and we deserve to loss Scully. Since the inception of the priority pick there have been many clubs who have taken advantage of the system does that mean, Hawthorn deserves to lose Franklin or Collingwood Thomas, Or Carlton on of there many, Bulldogs Cooney, Saint Kilda the Roo.

The top eight last year most had Priority picks running around, the grand finalist had priority picks plus a number of early picks running around. You would have a great team if you took all the priority picks away from the past 10 years and gave those players to GWS, to start with you would have 2 unbelievable forwards and a very strong midfield.

[btdemon 482]

For goodness sake! Can we please stop this now? Let the kid play footy. He'll make a decision at some stage and whatever happens, happens. That's it. We'll cope. He's only one player. All of this chatter just increases the pressure.

[nutbean 8,838]

I find it amusing how there are so many posters willing to believe the words of a football player manager.

Agreed - I am also not willing to take all the rumours and gossip as gospel either so then next question is what to do.

Stripping away all the speculation, innuedos and rumour on all sides - the only prudent course of action is continue the process without fanfare and hysteria and certainly without ultimatums.

[Hobbits's 17]

I'm not to concerned about this Scully situation but I am becoming very angry at all these Journos and other club supporters having a crack about us tanking and we deserve to loss Scully. Since the inception of the priority pick there have been many clubs who have taken advantage of the system does that mean, Hawthorn deserves to lose Franklin or Collingwood Thomas, Or Carlton on of there many, Bulldogs Cooney, Saint Kilda the Roo.

Well, do you think we shouldn't be expecting that sort of thing ? I know what you are on about and Journo's such as Greg Denham and the Twitter from D.Barrett were examples of that, that would make any Demon supporter cringe. But it's to be expected that sort of banter. Given the experimantation that went on.

[biggestred 5,087]

the tanking thing annoys me. every other club does it/did it. we won 12 games in 3 years and we would have got nothing if we'd won the 13th.

its not like the pies who played finals, tanked and then played finals again.

caro is probably just jealous that the tigers dont have scully or trengove. she is a tiger girl after all.

[biggestred 5,087]

not to mention all the rubbish we copped about how crap we were......its rich to turn around now and say, actually you werent that crap you were trying to lose. uhhhhh what?

[Choko 493]

Agree.

The outpouring of MFCSS and hysteria is in plague proportion and serving no useful purpose.

Thankfully the Club has cooler and wiser heads to deal with the issue than the "we're doomed" brigade.

Agree about the hysteria, but I do think Bailey has a clear responsibility to speak to Tom. He is ultimately the manager of the playing personnel, and the interests of the club are paramount.

The reality is, Tom has every right to do as he likes. But so does the MFC. And we cannot have 41 players held to ransom by 1. We have been going to market for the better part of 4 years with Scully front and centre of our youth pitch to supporters, and Tom has literally overnight stopped becoming a marketable commodity for us.

I am in the Paul Roos camp. By holding off on contract negotiations, like it or lump it, Tom is putting his name and himself ahead of the club. If Tom is going to sign with us in the end, which of course we all hope he does, then I reckon he will regret the way this looks.

If Tom wants to stay but wants to make sure he is getting a fair deal, there are many ways the MFC and Tom can make that happen without this "embargo" to season's end. For example, he can force GWS' hand to give their best offer and then get MFC's response. We could sign him up and draft a clause that revisited remuneration against a formula that took account of increases to the player "pie" and to the salary cap allowance. Unfortunately, some football clubs, ours included, are actually not particularly adept at industrial relations.

If Tom goes, then the way his management have been doing things is totally understandable. And I will hate him forever as a mercenary!

[drdrake 3,163]

If you work on the you deserve to loss the priority pick on that basis the GWS team deserves to be

Walker Rance Blease

Griffin Hodge Ellis

Deledio Judd Cooney

Sylvia Riewolt Didak

Thomas Roughead Jetta

Kruezer Ball Murphy

Scully, Hampson, Shuey, Darling

[Pates 9,660]

I think now that Bailey has to make a strong stand for the clubs sake and kill this cancer one way or another. If he doesn't get a firm commitment from Tom then make it clear to him and the rest of the world that he won't be playing with us anymore. This will clear the air but not without pain. It would be a sad loss but any other way out will be a sign of weakness and resignation. We don't want to be Sheedy's proxy star player development team.

I think that's what Bomber did with Ablett, worked out really well for Geelong didn't it? Best player not on speaking terms with coach for much of the year, interesting tactic.

[mauriesy 7,296]

By holding off on contract negotiations, like it or lump it, Tom is putting his name and himself ahead of the club. If Tom is going to sign with us in the end, which of course we all hope he does, then I reckon he will regret the way this looks.

Like it or lump it, Tom is actually only halfway through a two-year playing contract with us. What's the rush on his part? To assuage all the Demon supporter hysteria? I reckon we'll all regret the way our supporters are panicking.

Many things will happen this year. Tom will likely rise further in his path to stardom. The new AFL media deal and the AFLPA player payments submission will have huge effects on player payments and certainly raise salary caps.

Tom would be mad to rush into new contract negotiations, either with Melbourne or GWS, until these things are sorted out. I can fully see his management's point of view.

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

I think that's what Bomber did with Ablett, worked out really well for Geelong didn't it? Best player not on speaking terms with coach for much of the year, interesting tactic.

Bomber didn't go hard enough. Weak effort by him. Instead of doing necessary drastic surgery when he didn't get a commitment he just decided just not to speak to him. Couldn't bear the pain so in the end no gain. Tough for him because Gary was an entrenched bona fide champ but it would be easier for Bailey as Tom is still a developing player who's real worth is yet to be detirmined.

Edited February 10, 2011 by america de cali

[nutbean 8,838]

Agree about the hysteria, but I do think Bailey has a clear responsibility to speak to Tom. He is ultimately the manager of the playing personnel, and the interests of the club are paramount.

And if I was Tom and Bailey looked me in the eye and said what are you going to do - I would look straight back in the eye and respectfully say - "I pay big bucks to my manager to handle this" - this is the advice all managers give to all players - keep quiet and let the manager do the job. ( and an ugly job it is)

And to clarify Bailey is not the manager of the playing personnel - he is the coach of the football side - I would suggest that these issues fall under Chris C, Tim H and Cam S's umbrella.

The last of the true managers was Grant Thomas and they stripped him of these periphery responsibilities due to workload and more to the point - the conflicting nature of trying to mentor and coach a team AND manage protracted and sometimes heated contract negotiations and list management.

[Choko 493]

And if I was Tom and Bailey looked me in the eye and said what are you going to do - I would look straight back in the eye and respectfully say - "I pay big bucks to my manager to handle this" - this is the advice all managers give to all players - keep quiet and let the manager do the job. ( and an ugly job it is)

And to clarify Bailey is not the manager of the playing personnel - he is the coach of the football side - I would suggest that these issues fall under Chris C, Tim H and Cam S's umbrella.

The last of the true managers was Grant Thomas and they stripped him of these periphery responsibilities due to workload and more to the point - the conflicting nature of trying to mentor and coach a team AND manage protracted and sometimes heated contract negotiations and list management.

Absolutely that's how Tom would probably respond. However, that can be challenged, because hiding behind a representative is actually a copout, as they act on instructions.

With regard to coach being in charge of playing personnel, I disagree entirely. It's only Bailey that will cop the sack for personnel performance. It's only Bailey that is ultimately judged. It's Bailey that needs a cohesive list on the track. And Bailey can veto anyone there, possibly including Schwab, on footy issues.

Also, if you look at Geelong's criteria for a new coach, just have a look at the weighting/importance placed on HR/personnel management.

[nutbean 8,838]

Bomber didn't go hard enough. Weak effort by him. Instead of doing necessary drastic surgery when he didn't get a commitment he just decided just not to speak to him. Couldn't bear the pain so in the end no gain. Tough for him because Gary was an entrenched bona fide champ but it would be easier for Bailey as Tom is still a developing player.

Didn't go hard enough ? Are you suggesting that since Gary wouldnt commit you wouldnt have played him

- firstly - how detrimental to the team - Geelong would have not made it to the preliminary final without Jnr's workrate week in and week out

- secondly - EVERY footballer has to negotiate a contract with their club - setting such a bloody minded precedent ( you commit to us when we tell you or we wont play you) - well, good luck on keeping players at your club or even attracting others. I think you would end with group of players you didnt want and lose the group of players that you do !

Imagine the scenario you are advocating - we push Scully and he doesnt commit so we dont play him - when GWS come knocking at the door of our uncontracted players next year - seeing how we treated Scully - do you think the players will think - we had better sign up now for much less money and quickly as we dont want to be playing at Casey ? Ludicrous. The bottom line is that the contract has a year to run and it is the players right to negotiate at a time of his making - Frawley committed to four years early in the piece - Watts waited to seasons end. Different players, different managers, different agenda's.

Contract negotiations are just that - negotiations - give and take. Backing players into a corner and giving ultimatums before it is necessary is rule one what not to do.

[nutbean 8,838]

Absolutely that's how Tom would probably respond. However, that can be challenged, because hiding behind a representative is actually a copout, as they act on instructions.

With regard to coach being in charge of playing personnel, I disagree entirely. It's only Bailey that will cop the sack for personnel performance. It's only Bailey that is ultimately judged. It's Bailey that needs a cohesive list on the track. And Bailey can veto anyone there, possibly including Schwab, on footy issues.

Also, if you look at Geelong's criteria for a new coach, just have a look at the weighting/importance placed on HR/personnel management.

It may be a copout but it is how it is played and dont expect the playbook to be changed anytime soon - you hardly heard a peep out of Chris Judd even when he decided he was opting out. The ugly negotiations were left to his blood sucking manager.

And contract and list management is not a core "footy" issue or the coach would be handling it - it is why every club has separate personnel to take care of this. This is not by accident. Of course Bailey has input but clubs keep them completely separate for a very good reason - contract negotiations ( as we can see) are usually protracted, heated and emotional ans when coaches get involved as Bomber did last year - then you can see the end result - Bomber and GA Jnr not talking for the best part of a year.

As an aside - Baileys comments on this issue I think have been well crafted and thoughtful. He is RIGHTLY leaving it to others in the club to handle

Edited February 10, 2011 by nutbean

[Choko 493]

Didn't go hard enough ? Are you suggesting that since Gary wouldnt commit you wouldnt have played him

- firstly - how detrimental to the team - Geelong would have not made it to the preliminary final without Jnr's workrate week in and week out

- secondly - EVERY footballer has to negotiate a contract with their club - setting such a bloody minded precedent ( you commit to us when we tell you or we wont play you) - well, good luck on keeping players at your club or even attracting others. I think you would end with group of players you didnt want and lose the group of players that you do !

Imagine the scenario you are advocating - we push Scully and he doesnt commit so we dont play him - when GWS come knocking at the door of our uncontracted players next year - seeing how we treated Scully - do you think the players will think - we had better sign up now for much less money and quickly as we dont want to be playing at Casey ? Ludicrous. The bottom line is that the contract has a year to run and it is the players right to negotiate at a time of his making - Frawley committed to four years early in the piece - Watts waited to seasons end. Different players, different managers, different agenda's.

Contract negotiations are just that - negotiations - give and take. Backing players into a corner and giving ultimatums before it is necessary is rule one what not to do.

Yes, true.

So where's the MFC's take in your proposal? I know where it seems you are suggesting we take it....

[e25 5]

Sorry America de cali, this has NOT destabilised the club.

It has destabilised the club's fickle supporters.

Get a grip.

[Guest 36DD]

Sorry America de cali, this has NOT destabilised the club.

It has destabilised the club's fickle supporters.

Get a grip.

A fickle supporter is one who is concerned, frustrated and angered by the thought of losing one of their best young players. Now thats a new definition for fickle.

If posters have been threatening to tear up their membership and cease supporting the club if Tom leaves your post may be accurate.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rumours, speculation and media hysteria are now FACTS irrespective of their veracity. Just read/listen to the newspapers and other media and they all exist by the bucket load.

Oh dear. MFCSS at its worst.

They are not facts. They are just regurguitated rumours in absence of the truth willing sucked up people who should know better but dont act that way.

Like it or lump it, Tom is actually only halfway through a two-year playing contract with us. What's the rush on his part? To assuage all the Demon supporter hysteria? I reckon we'll all regret the way our supporters are panicking.

Many things will happen this year. Tom will likely rise further in his path to stardom. The new AFL media deal and the AFLPA player payments submission will have huge effects on player payments and certainly raise salary caps.

Tom would be mad to rush into new contract negotiations, either with Melbourne or GWS, until these things are sorted out. I can fully see his management's point of view.

Agree maurie. However, it may happen sooner than the end of the year. We will have to wait and see.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

If he wants to stay then he will stay. And that will be fantastic.

If he wants to go then he will go. And we will receive another number 1 draft pick and probably another first round pick as compensation. At least that is a better deal than Brisbane got for Buckley, or Sydney for Rocca, or WC for Judd......

Nothing that any keyboard nazi on this forum says has or will have any impact on that decision.

As for those that say "if Tom won't commit now then don't play him" i ask you this....

What if Tom doesn't yet know what he wants to do. He has been offered financial security for the next 6 years on the one hand, but it means he has to give up everything else (family/mates from playing/ties to Melbourne/mates outside football/a team already on an upward build to success) on the other. Or he stays and turns down the chance for long term large financial security.

Ever think that by actually encouraging him to take his time and play his best footy with the seniors might be one of the major things that convinces him to stay rather than guaranteeing him leaving by dumping him to the two's straight away???

Get a grip and just let things play out.

[biggestred 5,087]

If he wants to go then he will go. And we will receive another number 1 draft pick and probably another first round pick as compensation.

we should, but we wont.

[jabberwocky 2,301]

A fickle supporter is one who is concerned, frustrated and angered by the thought of losing one of their best young players. Now thats a new definition for fickle.

If posters have been threatening to tear up their membership and cease supporting the club if Tom leaves your post may be accurate.

I understand what E25 is saying though fickle may not be the best choice of words.

There are those who waould say things to undermine us as a club in an attempt to improve thier position.

When our supporters etc begin panicing they achieve thier aims. And panic is never the best way to attack a problem.

Those who have supported the club through our poor seasons, those who have backed Stynes and Bailey when we were't getting results, those who trusted the club wih the Chris Johnson, Brock Mclean, Trav Johnstone, Cam Bruce decisions, they will be the same ones who will trust the club through this and show courage and unity.

[needafullback 82]

I'd like to share a thought that has given me some comfort. I'm not completely convinced by it, and I should all preface it by saying that all of this is mere rumour and I think Tom will stay.

Our club plays at the home of football. We have the makings of a great side. If looking around at the likes of Watts, Trengove, Grimes, Gysberts, Jurrah, Tapscott, McKenzie, Frawley and all of the other young talent on our list does not motivate Tom Scully to stick around and win a premiership, or even create a dynasty, then he's not the sort of player we want anyway.

[Robbie57 2,020]

America de cali: Your approach is not only a massive fail, it ensures his departure.

Everytime some media flack wants to whip up a story all he has to do is get the supporters in a frenzy, pit player against supporters, coach and management.

This only becomes an issue if we let it be an issue. Lets not get sucked in by this nonsense.

What else can his mangement say?

Why shouldn't we believe them there is NO evidence to the contrary.

Its our club not the media's club. Lets not forget that.

We have a Board and management who have shown themselves to be top rate.

The approach they are adopting is one which improves our chances.

We can improve our chances by getting behind Scully not into some debate with him. On its face his position is entirely reasonable.

Like you I'd like to have him tied up now but thats not the situation nor is it the situation for many players in the AFL.

Note to Barratt, Sheehan, Eddie and others, "We will negoatiate with our players in private, yes it sucks there is no story in that for you. We respect our players rights to negotiate with us in that manner as well. We understand you are going to drag out this story week in and week out but thats tough luck. Take note Demon supporters stand shoulder to shoulder with our club and each and every player. Take your wedge elsewhere."

[Rocknroll 1,004]

Agreed Grandson,

For my 2 cents whatever that’s worth. The more fuel we put on this fire in here, the more the flames will be flared but gutter media hacks that use footy forums as source for their innuendo and trashy stories.

Worst thing we can do is turn this apprehension we all feel into any fuel for these hacks or worst, in the form of a personal address (sledge from our safe seats in the outer) to Tom, the coaching staff, players or people associated with the MFC. I don’t think a constant badgering of Tom on his contract status will make him want to stay in/at Melbourne. I don’t think fans accusing him of signing with GWS would make him feel welcome/wanted.

How would you feel if you saw any fan in red and blue called Tom a Judas or chasing the money on word of eddies tom tom’s? I personally would be ashamed and embarrassed.

I believe we need to show Tom that we are the greatest/most knowledgeable footy fans in the comp and convince him through our support that Melbourne FC history/culture/playing group is the place to be for the next 10-15 years.

Thats my 2 cents.

I really can’t wait until we have some real footy to talk about.

Edited February 10, 2011 by Rocknroll