Would you begrudge the player

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

I’m not too concerned about losing any of our young guns to GWS or anyone else, because I’m confident that there’s a very strong bond between the core group at Melbourne ...... a bond of mateship between young blokes who are single minded about achieving the ultimate goal together.

The following quotes by Jordie McKenzie (recent Inside Football feature article) illustrate the point I’m trying to make:

“The team is just a really good bunch of mates, and there’s a lot of boys around the same age, so we all get on very well. I feel very lucky coming to the Club at this time where there’s a lot of youth and we’re all coming through together. I just want to play as much footy with them as I can in the years to come. .............................. I would definitely like to stay at Melbourne for good. I’ll stay for as long as they’ll have me.”

We all know that Jordie has already demonstrated enormous loyalty to stay with the Dees, but I’d be very surprised if all of our key youngsters don’t share the same attitude. Players who are on the fringe might be tempted by greener pastures, but not our core players IMO.

McLean trotted out the same [censored] and it meant nothing

[rpfc 28,244]

McLean trotted out the same [censored] and it meant nothing

Or for Mclean it meant nothing and was bullsh!t.

Give a kid a chance...

[Curry & Beer 5,444]

Or for Mclean it meant nothing and was bullsh!t.

Give a kid a chance...

Just saying that words, particularly those posted on the club website, are worth nothing

[rpfc 28,244]

Just saying that words, particularly those posted on the club website, are worth nothing

Unless you mean them.

I think you are saying that actions speak louder than words.

I just wouldn't say that they are 'worth nothing.'

Junior may have said something similar 13 years ago.

Those words would have been worth something.

[jayceebee31 759]

If any player (except melb) left for momey I would not begrudge them

If a melb player left for money I'd hate his guts as a disloyal, traitorous mercenary

If any player from any club left for money to go to Coll, Carl or Ess I would immediately suspect corruption and salary cap rorting

If a Coll player left to come to melb I would feel dirty, even more so if we paid overs

Oh and BTW, A very merry Xmas to all Demonlanders

Good on ya- just finished watching the Coll v's MFC matches this year- I'm bleeding should have won both games outright.We don't need their players however Dawes would be ok by me on the forward line. Good protector (could be a Neil Balme type) to our forwards.Would make the others are few cms taller and more spring in their legs.

[Nasher 33,607]

Just saying that words...are worth nothing

Depends on who's saying them. Jordie's actions with regards to signing on have already spoken louder than his words. Out of anyone, he's one person I'd be inclined to believe.

[Guest hangon007]

The problem is the combination of the rule that GWSG can pick up uncontracted players and the fact that GWSG has much more room in its salary cap than the other clubs. This basically knocks competitors out when the issue boils down to money alone because they simply can't even enter the bidding race. You can't begrudge someone like Garry Ablett Jnr for going to the Suns in those circumstances.

I would maintain it would be different if GWSG made a grab for a young player coming out of his first contract after being drafted as would be the case with someone like Tom Scully. The AFL should have taken younger players into account IMO and prevented the taking of uncontracted players under these rules with less than say four year's service.

Fotunately, someone like Scully has his family close at hand and he's much better off being close to his natural environment than in a place like the outer western suburbs of Sydney. He has more chance of expanding his earning capacity in years to come at a club like Melbourne which will be knocking on the door to success from 2012 onwards than at a pioneer club where the wheels could quickly fall off.

All sounds like perfect sense to me.

The last few years AFL clubs have demonstrated on more than 1 occasion they wont pay players big money ...who dont want to play for them!

Some may call it defacto "free agency" which the player managers have utilised to get their players to the club of their choice. The "key" is always, always get the player to make you the club of "their choice". Interestingly, clubs in recent times have also forgone the "best" deal ... again to assist the player to get to the club of "their choice". The trading rules have remained un-challenged for many years for a reason and will remain un-challenged as long as the balance of power remains with the players ... which at times does appear to passionately upset many footy followers.

Lets just hope we can convince all our required players we are the club of their choice all be it facing the prospects of more money and longer contracts elsewhere.

Go Dees!

[old dee 23,704]

All sounds like perfect sense to me.

The last few years AFL clubs have demonstrated on more than 1 occasion they wont pay players big money ...who dont want to play for them!

Some may call it defacto "free agency" which the player managers have utilised to get their players to the club of their choice. The "key" is always, always get the player to make you the club of "their choice". Interestingly, clubs in recent times have also forgone the "best" deal ... again to assist the player to get to the club of "their choice". The trading rules have remained un-challenged for many years for a reason and will remain un-challenged as long as the balance of power remains with the players ... which at times does appear to passionately upset many footy followers.

Lets just hope we can convince all our required players we are the club of their choice all be it facing the prospects of more money and longer contracts elsewhere.

Go Dees!

Oh how I hope this is true however my gut tells me otherwise.

If someone approached you and said come and work for us at twice the pay with a guarnateed contract of three years and the same conditions what would you do?

Say no I like the lunch time conversations too much!

[Sydney Dee 1]

Players only have a limited amount of time at the elite level, so no-one can be begrudged for trying to make the most money they can whilst playing.

I know I and many on here would happily move if offered more to do the same job

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Oh how I hope this is true however my gut tells me otherwise.

If someone approached you and said come and work for us at twice the pay with a guarnateed contract of three years and the same conditions what would you do?

Say no I like the lunch time conversations too much!

You seem unhealthily driven by money alone.

What about things like uprooting your life to move to a place where you know no-one, have no family, isn't a particularly nice place to live, to a team that will be a long long way off any real success. These obviously have no bearing in your mind. I think you will find however that most players in developing teams or teams in the premiership window think differently (thank god) and will gladly stay at their club for less money for a realistic chance of the ultimate success.

[jayceebee31 759]

Oh how I hope this is true however my gut tells me otherwise.

If someone approached you and said come and work for us at twice the pay with a guarnateed contract of three years and the same conditions what would you do?

Say no I like the lunch time conversations too much!

So true and furthermore we would gain good picks and allow others to play at thetop level.

[old dee 23,704]

You seem unhealthily driven by money alone.

What about things like uprooting your life to move to a place where you know no-one, have no family, isn't a particularly nice place to live, to a team that will be a long long way off any real success. These obviously have no bearing in your mind. I think you will find however that most players in developing teams or teams in the premiership window think differently (thank god) and will gladly stay at their club for less money for a realistic chance of the ultimate success.

Most players have stayed with their existing club because it was very difficult to get to the club of their choice and the incentive was probably only 15% more.

That is not the case with the GWS, they know exactly where they would be going and increase could easily be 100%.

A large number of recruits come from interstate they know no one at the start but relationships soon develop.

No different in going to a new club.

As for the premiership window, that only applies to a few clubs any way.

The MFC is probably not a long way ahead of GWS and you may never win one by staying at the MFC.

Look at Prestie at Collingwood played there all his career and was injured and never played in a winning GF.

I think at times we all want players to stay and convince ourselves that players will stay

for various reasons.

The reality is that given a big enough cheque a large number will jump ship

and I could not blame them.

Remember they only came to Melbourne in the first place because we chose them in the draft!

Edited December 31, 2010 by old dee

[Guest hangon007]

Most players have stayed with their existing club because it was very difficult to get to the club of their choice and the incentive was probably only 15% more.

That is not the case with the GWS, they know exactly where they would be going and increase could easily be 100%.

A large number of recruits come from interstate they know no one at the start but relationships soon develop.

No different in going to a new club.

As for the premiership window, that only applies to a few clubs any way.

The MFC is probably not a long way ahead of GWS and you may never win one by staying at the MFC.

Look at Prestie at Collingwood played there all his career and was injured and never played in a winning GF.

I think at times we all want players to stay and convince ourselves that players will stay

for various reasons.

The reality is that given a big enough cheque a large number will jump ship

and I could not blame them.

Remember they only came to Melbourne in the first place because we chose them in the draft!

But surely all clubs face the same issues - know one is more or less immune from the rules.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Most players have stayed with their existing club because it was very difficult to get to the club of their choice and the incentive was probably only 15% more.

That is not the case with the GWS, they know exactly where they would be going and increase could easily be 100%.

A large number of recruits come from interstate they know no one at the start but relationships soon develop.

No different in going to a new club.

As for the premiership window, that only applies to a few clubs any way.

The MFC is probably not a long way ahead of GWS and you may never win one by staying at the MFC.

Look at Prestie at Collingwood played there all his career and was injured and never played in a winning GF.

I think at times we all want players to stay and convince ourselves that players will stay

for various reasons.

The reality is that given a big enough cheque a large number will jump ship

and I could not blame them.

Remember they only came to Melbourne in the first place because we chose them in the draft!

I think you are grossly underestimating factors other than money old dee. And EVERY player goes to their first club via the draft- National or Rookie. Strangly, 90% of them stay loyal to the club who drafted them???

I would say MFC is a long way ahead of GWS, given they haven't even played a year of reserves footy.

So are you saying Presti regrets staying at Collingwood?

Look i understand that a 60% pay increase is a fairly big incentive. Like Gold Coast, GWS will attract some players. And there may be a chance that someone from MFC goes. But let me ask you this- how many players do you think GC approached and GWS have already approached with big dollars, much bigger than what they'll see at their current clubs, only to have the player/s turn their backs and sign another contract with their club? I guarantee you it is far more than they actually signed.

Gold Coast for all their positioning and talk of massive money, lifestyle and poaching players got the following:

Ablett- left a team on the decline

Harbrow- left a team that is not good enough to take the next step

Rischitelli- left a crap team after being poorly treated as trade bait the year before

Brennan- left a crap team for money at the back end of his career

Brown- left a team in decline at the back end of his career and again was poorly treated by that club the previous year

Krakour- left a crap team going nowhere after falling out with the coaching panel

Fraser- left the premiers after realising he was no longer in their best team and would struggle to get any more games

Not one player from a developing team or "young gun".

GWS have less incentives in terms of lifestyle etc than GC.

There will be much talk and posturing by GWS and Sheedy, and plenty of MFCSS in the meantime until all our kids sign. I would not begrudge any player leaving. But doubt any will- or at least any that will be the core of our team going forward. We will be compensated accordingly if we do and that in itself can prove very valuable as we move up the ladder.

[old dee 23,704]

I think you are grossly underestimating factors other than money old dee. And EVERY player goes to their first club via the draft- National or Rookie. Strangly, 90% of them stay loyal to the club who drafted them???

I would say MFC is a long way ahead of GWS, given they haven't even played a year of reserves footy.

So are you saying Presti regrets staying at Collingwood?

Look i understand that a 60% pay increase is a fairly big incentive. Like Gold Coast, GWS will attract some players. And there may be a chance that someone from MFC goes. But let me ask you this- how many players do you think GC approached and GWS have already approached with big dollars, much bigger than what they'll see at their current clubs, only to have the player/s turn their backs and sign another contract with their club? I guarantee you it is far more than they actually signed.

Gold Coast for all their positioning and talk of massive money, lifestyle and poaching players got the following:

Ablett- left a team on the decline

Harbrow- left a team that is not good enough to take the next step

Rischitelli- left a crap team after being poorly treated as trade bait the year before

Brennan- left a crap team for money at the back end of his career

Brown- left a team in decline at the back end of his career and again was poorly treated by that club the previous year

Krakour- left a crap team going nowhere after falling out with the coaching panel

Fraser- left the premiers after realising he was no longer in their best team and would struggle to get any more games

Not one player from a developing team or "young gun".

GWS have less incentives in terms of lifestyle etc than GC.

There will be much talk and posturing by GWS and Sheedy, and plenty of MFCSS in the meantime until all our kids sign. I would not begrudge any player leaving. But doubt any will- or at least any that will be the core of our team going forward. We will be compensated accordingly if we do and that in itself can prove very valuable as we move up the ladder.

All of what you say is correct

I just think you are kidding yourself to think that our players are going to be immune to approaches.

I will not be surprised if one of our young guys leaves.

[old dee 23,704]

But surely all clubs face the same issues - know one is more or less immune from the rules.

Exactly why it could be a Melbourne player.

[daisycutter 29,600]

Exactly why it could be a Melbourne player.

guess everyone is roughly in agreement, just expressing it from different directions

the key seems to be to create a good environment where the players feel they belong and are a good chance for a flag

that will minimise the risk but not totally remove it

[Grandson of a gun 276]

All of what you say is correct

I just think you are kidding yourself to think that our players are going to be immune to approaches.

I will not be surprised if one of our young guys leaves.

C'mon Old Dee, your eyesight or comprehension failing? When did i ever say that they wouldn't be approached? If you read my post properly i said one may well leave and i would not begrudge him, but i honestly do not believe that it will be any of our core or required players that does. Perhaps a fringe player or a player not getting opportunities. Maric?

Happy New Year...

[Grandson of a gun 276]

guess everyone is roughly in agreement, just expressing it from different directions

the key seems to be to create a good environment where the players feel they belong and are a good chance for a flag

that will minimise the risk but not totally remove it

Well put DC....

[old dee 23,704]

C'mon Old Dee, your eyesight or comprehension failing? When did i ever say that they wouldn't be approached? If you read my post properly i said one may well leave and i would not begrudge him, but i honestly do not believe that it will be any of our core or required players that does. Perhaps a fringe player or a player not getting opportunities. Maric?

Happy New Year...

Eye sight maybe but comprehension is ok.

Like DC said I think we are all pretty much of the same opinion.

Nice tread though that is worth reading on the last day of 2010.

Does anyone have an opinion on when our premiership window will open?

I think 2014 ( hope it is earlier as I am not getting any younger )

because I think it will be that long before we have a large number of players with 100 games to their credit.

around 100 seems to be the magic figure floated by some "experts"

[daisycutter 29,600]

I think 2014 ( hope it is earlier as I am not getting any younger )

According to your profile your age is unknown

If you don't remember your own age you must be pretty old

If it makes you feel better it "could" be as early as 2012, but I'd think we'd give it a shake in 2013

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Eye sight maybe but comprehension is ok.

Like DC said I think we are all pretty much of the same opinion.

Nice tread though that is worth reading on the last day of 2010.

Does anyone have an opinion on when our premiership window will open?

I think 2014 ( hope it is earlier as I am not getting any younger )

because I think it will be that long before we have a large number of players with 100 games to their credit.

around 100 seems to be the magic figure floated by some "experts"

Agree on both fronts.

According to your profile your age is unknown

If you don't remember your own age you must be pretty old

If it makes you feel better it "could" be as early as 2012, but I'd think we'd give it a shake in 2013

Won't be 2012. At best we will have played one year of finals footy before that. I would love it, but reckon it is a 1% chance at best.

I was one who originally thought 2013 but realistically 2014-2015 is the real big window i see. That way we can continue to develop in 2011 and maybe make the finals, in 2012 & 2013 we get two good solid years in the finals to gain the required experience of both finals footy and what it takes to become better than "just" a finals team. 2014 onwards is where i see the real opportunity...

[daisycutter 29,600]

Won't be 2012. At best we will have played one year of finals footy before that. I would love it, but reckon it is a 1% chance at best.

I was one who originally thought 2013 but realistically 2014-2015 is the real big window i see. That way we can continue to develop in 2011 and maybe make the finals, in 2012 & 2013 we get two good solid years in the finals to gain the required experience of both finals footy and what it takes to become better than "just" a finals team. 2014 onwards is where i see the real opportunity...

Of course thats what logic says. I was just trying to cheer up old dee

[old dee 23,704]

Of course thats what logic says. I was just trying to cheer up old dee

Thanks DC I am not ancient but 3-4 years seems a long time compared to 10 years ago.

I have every intention of being around long after 2014

I just get a little frustrated with 3 - 4 year time frames these days.

Happy new year guys I am looking forward to a big 2011, 10 wins will make me very very happy.