Most over / under rated Melbourne players

[hrob 2]

WTH has Maric ever done to suggest that he is underrated?

Agree re Bate, who I admit to rating very highly a couple of years ago.

Not convinced one way nor the other re an uninjured Martin used as a defender. Still see a possible upside but definitely needsvto stake a claim 2011.

i just think maric doesnt get a fair go by bailey n is harshly judged by people here on demonland, i like how he plays with a good kick n good decision maker, yes he sometimes doesnt defend the hardest but his not the only one. jst thk he should be able to play some games to prove his worth n i believe wud prove a lot of people wrong instead of playing 1 or 2 games here n there like when he was dropped after the sydney game this year where he was hardly our worst player!, jst thk he deserves more of a go!

[titan_uranus 22,923]

Under-rated: Bail, Garland, Bartram (does his shut-down/Back Pocket job each week. Yes, despite the abysmal kicking)

Over-rated: Maric, Bennell, Hughes

i just think maric doesnt get a fair go by bailey n is harshly judged by people here on demonland, i like how he plays with a good kick n good decision maker, yes he sometimes doesnt defend the hardest but his not the only one. jst thk he should be able to play some games to prove his worth n i believe wud prove a lot of people wrong instead of playing 1 or 2 games here n there like when he was dropped after the sydney game this year where he was hardly our worst player!, jst thk he deserves more of a go!

No. Maric is over-rated. People here think that he is a good kick or a good decision maker. That in itself shows he is over-rated, as he has never shown either of these at AFL level.

[The Jacks 0]

Well then. I claimed a few weeks ago that someone suggesting that we should take Jason Laycock was the worst post of the year. But then you come along and make the ridiculous assertion that Jamar is over-rated, and thus we have another contender.

For someone who has struggled to hold his spot, to someone who is, clearly, the competition's second best ruckman, who spends every last morsel of energy in his body to ensure he can keep rucking to the end (have a look at him after the Darwin game. He had nothing left), who is a dangerous forward when he can go there, with virtually no support, I think he is perfectly rated.

Jamar is a good ruckman. He gives us so much in a crucial position on the field. He contests, can give us a chance to win the clearances more often than not. He can match it with any ruckman in the league and can beat all of them on his day. We have no reliable back up option in the ruck, and this makes Jamar even more important to the team, arguably the team's most important player.

Jamar has improved massively, going from a player that had to cop a huge amount of flak to being universally admired by his team's supporters.

But I think his one good season has many Melbourne fans overrating his ability. Jamar is a crucial player, one we can't do without, but that doesn't make him a match winner, a dominant player at AFL level, or a star who can pull his side across the line. He is crucial in plenty of games we win, but I just don't view him to be as good a footballer as many other Demon fans do. Hence I think he is overrated.

The All-Australian selection plays a big part here. There is a very strong argument that Jamar was the second best ruckman during the 2010 home & away season. As strong is the argument that there should be two ruckman in the All-Australian team. But I'd say Darren Jolly is a better footballer than Jamar and was probably a very close third int erms of the best ruckman during the home & away season. Jolly started slowly and picked his form up as the year went on, and he ended up playing some huge games late in the year, and was influential in the finals. The finals. Grand finals.

If you want to use Jamar's All-Australian selection as evidence of his standing in the game, I'd firstly argue that Jolly had a better year than Jamar. Rounds 1-22, Jamar was better. Over the entire year, Jolly was better. While on one hand you can't hold the fact that Jamar didn't play finals against him, on the other you can't ignore the fact that Jolly had a good finals series and helped his side win a flag.

In any case, Jolly and Sandilands are far better footballers than Jamar. If Jamar can match the output and influence he had in 2010 again in 2011 and again in 2012 and perhaps once more int he next five years, then he will be regarded as highly as Jolly & Sandilands. Until then, I feel like Jamar is regarded as an equal of these two when he doesn't have the form or history to back that up. And that's just using two ruckman as examples. They're all footballers, and Jolly & Sandilands are the only two ruckman I'd regard as great footballers. Sandilands is the only one who would fall in the top 20 or 30 players in the league.

Anyway, I'm also adding Davey to the list of underrated players, as I'm not sure Melbourne fans appreciate just how, good his skills are, how clever a player he is, and how important he is for our success (as important as Jamar). Davey rarely makes a skill error and is probably the only player that can get the ball and leave me with not a worry int he world ... he will make the right decision and deliver the ball just as he wanted to.

[titan_uranus 22,923]

The All-Australian selection plays a big part here. There is a very strong argument that Jamar was the second best ruckman during the 2010 home & away season. As strong is the argument that there should be two ruckman in the All-Australian team. But I'd say Darren Jolly is a better footballer than Jamar and was probably a very close third int erms of the best ruckman during the home & away season. Jolly started slowly and picked his form up as the year went on, and he ended up playing some huge games late in the year, and was influential in the finals. The finals. Grand finals.

If you want to use Jamar's All-Australian selection as evidence of his standing in the game, I'd firstly argue that Jolly had a better year than Jamar. Rounds 1-22, Jamar was better. Over the entire year, Jolly was better. While on one hand you can't hold the fact that Jamar didn't play finals against him, on the other you can't ignore the fact that Jolly had a good finals series and helped his side win a flag.

Jolly's first six weeks were crap by his standards. People were asking if they'd made the right move.

Sure, Jolly's finals series was great, but who's to say that if Jamar had had the opportunity to play finals, he wouldn't have dominated? You can't use Jolly's finals record without comparing to Jamar's, which is currently non-existent.

Jamar's year was better than Jolly's, finals included.

[The Big Ticket 94]

Overrated: Morton- Never gets any hard ball, does not use the ball well, ran away from that port guy.

Underrated: Jurrah- I know we all think he is absolutly amazing, but I still think we underate him

You never miss a chance to hang it on Morton. As DD said, it was patently obvious that he was running to his position and not running away from Lade.

I'll take great pleasure in bumping all of your anti-Morton posts in a few years.

[Disco Demons 92]

i would prefer the question..."Which MFC players aren't fulfilling their role at the club?"

i'm sure bails sits down with each player and tells them what he expects from them...

Edited October 28, 2010 by disco_demon

[Demon Rob 2]

what this flag in 2013 rubbish?

everyone knows its finals next year, flag in 2012.

its all in the bailey plan.

[trout 385]

Under: Garland, Maric, Jetta

Over: Bate, Martin (spud in my eyes but other will disagree n everyones entitled to an opinion)

Maric under - rated, that is gold. Your jokeing right?

[gOLLy 401]

That quote there seems more logical in that context. Thanks for the reply.

That wasn't so hard, was it gOLLy ?

[gOLLy 401]

Maric under - rated, that is gold. Your jokeing right?

I'd agrre with rhob

Maric is underated

[Green Machine 63]

:D

Hey HT. WHat I think he was trying to say was that I don't watch footy based TV shows, small interviews, half-time interviews with the TIVO/Foxtel IQ queued up to record dates, times, and specific things said so I can regurgitate them on demonland. If Bailey goes on and says in an interview "let's just f%&en get it inside forward fifty" then yeah, fair enough, I might jump on and quote it... but then so would everyone else. So DID everyone else.

Since you're a decent bloke, and I'm unlikely to get some pseudo-intellectual clap-trap from you, I'll recount what I remember. I believe it was earlier this year, maybe pre-season. I know this cos I was in the states watching the Eagles get killed it in the NFL :D Bailey was being interviewed by a non-serious interviewer. Maybe a club-friendly setting. I'm thinking sort of like Before the Game type interviewers. Was a casual sort of thing. Not like Andy Maher reading whatever makes the biggest news into whatever mumblings come out of a coach. The interviewer was talking recruiting, asking about the players not coming along the way they should have... I think maybe Jack Watts' name was brought up, and was the club hoping that they'd come along a bit better. So in that context, I think Bailey was justified talking his boys up. I think that may have contributed to why no-one brought it up at the time. In context it made sense. in the face of unfair criticism, of COURSE a coach is going to plug his club. Also, it may have been something to do with trading Brock or Trapper or both, and asking about the youth policy. Which again, in context, you'd be justified in saying that your stringent recruitment policy may not reap dividends straight away, but that in the future it would.

That's the best I can do. I think his words were along the lines of "I have absolutely no doubt this list will win a flag in the coming years." there was no arrogance, no guarantees, it was just a sensible response with a big helping of positivity. I remembered it because it was notable as being the first time I'd heard those words come from our coach. I'd always felt he was putting things in place for exactly that reason, but

Seriously GM. Pull your head in. You've been here long enough to know that they showed more footage, he wasn't running from anyone. He was looking for the rebounded ball. It just looked like he was running. If anything Lade was the dipstick there, running at the man when the ball was about to be in his area.

I know he ran to get the ball, and I think he got it in the end, but, In my defence, for a split second, he looked like he was actually packing his dacks, and he kinda shuffled away from Lade(?) and now whenever I think of Morton, that just comes into my mind. I just can't stop thinking about it. I also do not see what everyone else sees in him.

Just because he has a big engine means he can become the next Adam Goodes? Thats why I think he is overrated, I probly did not need to say that he "ran" away from Lade, but, I find it funny.

This is what I should have said regarding Morton:

He does have a great engine, however I have not seen any physicality in his game that says to me he will be a star of the game. I have read that he will be the next Brendan Goddard and Adam Goodes, who are both Superstars of the game, and even though I was to young to watch Goddard and Goodes in there early years, Morton is not explosive enough to be like Goddard or Goodes in my opinion. I would ABSOLUTLY LOVE to be wrong, but, I just do not see it.

Also, I did not even see the clip of Morton "running" from Lade on the footy show, I was watching the game on tele, and I made my own judgment, then, when looking at some youtube videos of the Dees, the video of him "RUNNING" came up, so I watched it, and I had a bit of a chuckle, and relized that he was not completly "running" , but, I still think he "ran" away from Lade for a split second.

Edited October 28, 2010 by Green Machine

[Green Machine 63]

You never miss a chance to hang it on Morton. As DD said, it was patently obvious that he was running to his position and not running away from Lade.

I'll take great pleasure in bumping all of your anti-Morton posts in a few years.

Please read my above post.

[Jumping Jack Clennett 1,649]

I agree with Jacka about the "Mad Russian" being over-rated. Do we get much benefit from his knock-outs? We never seem to get the centre clearances or breakaways from stoppages. Is that because he doesn't direct his knockouts, or do we have a poor midfield(and are they overrated?)?

He doesn't take many contested marks(I don't know the stats...would he average 2 a game?) He's improved remarkably , but is he really all-Australian class?

I 'd rate Sandilands, Cox, Jolly, Hille and possibly Kreuzer ahead of him.

[John Crow Batty 8,345]

I agree with Jacka about the "Mad Russian" being over-rated. Do we get much benefit from his knock-outs? We never seem to get the centre clearances or breakaways from stoppages. Is that because he doesn't direct his knockouts, or do we have a poor midfield(and are they overrated?)?

He doesn't take many contested marks(I don't know the stats...would he average 2 a game?) He's improved remarkably , but is he really all-Australian class?

I 'd rate Sandilands, Cox, Jolly, Hille and possibly Kreuzer ahead of him.

I can't fault Jamar's improvement over the past year. I would rate only Sandilands as having an edge on him. The only thing left to do for him is to continue and deliver for the next few seasons with some support. His tap work is the most astute and accurate in the game at the moment. If anything our midfield has not come along with him. We need more grunt there. When the ball is loose in broken stoppage contests we don't get it at the second and third efforts. It's almost predictable that the other side gets the clearance in broken play. And despite our lauded defence we are still hopeless at backs to the wall stoppages within 30 metres of goal. I don't know if it is a structural problem or player problem but it has nothing to do with Jamar's work. I WOULD SAY OUR MIDFIELD IS CERTAINLY OVERRATED! I said in another thread we need some more inside midfield grunt, not a silky outside cruiser or tall marking forward. Thats my opinion anyway.

Edited October 28, 2010 by america de cali

[H_T 2,941]

I can't fault Jamar's improvement over the past year. The only thing left to do for him is to continue and deliver for the next few seasons with some support. His tap work is the most astute and accurate in the game at the moment. If anything our midfield has not come along with him. We need more grunt there. When the ball is loose in stoppage contests we don't get it at the second and third efforts. It's almost predictable that the other side gets the clearance in broken play. And despite our lauded defence we are still hopeless at back to the wall stoppages within 30 metres of goal. I don't know if it is a structural problem or player problem but it has nothing to do with Jamar's work. I WOULD SAY OUR MIDFIELD IS CERTAINLY OVERRATED!

There is no doubt our midfield still needs plenty of work & development still. With Junior gone, we've lost some experience, so someone else or the midfield collectively will have to stand up. Such as...

Scully

Trengove

Jones

Moloney

Sylvia

Davey

McKenzie

And..

Gysberts

Blease

We've been smashed at clearances and stoppages. Plenty room for improvement.

[John Crow Batty 8,345]

There is no doubt our midfield still needs plenty of work & development still. With Junior gone, we've lost some experience, so someone else or the midfield collectively will have to stand up. Such as...

Scully

Trengove

Jones

Moloney

Sylvia

Davey

McKenzie

And..

Gysberts

Blease

We've been smashed at clearances and stoppages. Plenty room for improvement.

If Jones, Moloney, Sylvia and Davey can improve by 10% and all the newbies also improve from what they have shown then we might have a cracking midfield. The potential is there, I can't wait for next season.

[Happeninghunts 7]

Under : Garland

Over : Bate

Good call

[Guest Thomo]

and even though I was to young to watch Goddard and Goodes in there early years,

Now your footy show opinion makes sense.

[Green Machine 63]

Now your footy show opinion makes sense.

Did you even read my whole post?

[Guest grimes4]

I'm right with you on the midfield and drafting a midfielder. I think our midfield is no where near as good as everyone thinks. Still lacking a player with real class and polish like a Pendlebury. Davey is our only silky slick player.

[The Big Ticket 94]

I know he ran to get the ball, and I think he got it in the end, but, In my defence, for a split second, he looked like he was actually packing his dacks, and he kinda shuffled away from Lade(?) and now whenever I think of Morton, that just comes into my mind. I just can't stop thinking about it. I also do not see what everyone else sees in him.

Just because he has a big engine means he can become the next Adam Goodes? Thats why I think he is overrated, I probly did not need to say that he "ran" away from Lade, but, I find it funny.

This is what I should have said regarding Morton:

He does have a great engine, however I have not seen any physicality in his game that says to me he will be a star of the game. I have read that he will be the next Brendan Goddard and Adam Goodes, who are both Superstars of the game, and even though I was to young to watch Goddard and Goodes in there early years, Morton is not explosive enough to be like Goddard or Goodes in my opinion. I would ABSOLUTLY LOVE to be wrong, but, I just do not see it.

Also, I did not even see the clip of Morton "running" from Lade on the footy show, I was watching the game on tele, and I made my own judgment, then, when looking at some youtube videos of the Dees, the video of him "RUNNING" came up, so I watched it, and I had a bit of a chuckle, and relized that he was not completly "running" , but, I still think he "ran" away from Lade for a split second.

Fair enough. But if you had a body like Morton's, would you want to put it on the line and risk an injury you may never recover from?

Don't worry, I remember Goddard being maligned like Morton is now.

He dogged his fair share of times too.

We'll talk about this again in 5 years time.

Edit: Cheers for elaborating on that

Edited October 29, 2010 by BattlerBailey

[The Big Ticket 94]

I'm right with you on the midfield and drafting a midfielder. I think our midfield is no where near as good as everyone thinks. Still lacking a player with real class and polish like a Pendlebury. Davey is our only silky slick player.

I tend to agree.

[Green Machine 63]

Fair enough. But if you had a body like Morton's, would you want to put it on the line and risk an injury you may never recover from?

Don't worry, I remember Goddard being maligned like Morton is now.

He dogged his fair share of times too.

We'll talk about this again in 5 years time.

Edit: Cheers for elaborating on that

I really hope Im wrong about Morton and he turns out to be just as good as Goddard.