The "Best Available" challenge

[Hannabal 4]

If Jurrah is soft then Watts is custard.

While Watts is far from hard he's put his body on the line far more than Jurrah.

You're falling into typical stereotype when it comes to Watts. And it tells me that you don't watch footy closely.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

While Watts is far from hard he's put his body on the line far more than Jurrah.

You're falling into typical stereotype when it comes to Watts. And it tells me that you don't watch footy closely.

No, you're wrong.

[e25 5]

No, he's right.

Well, he's right that Watts has put his body on the line more than Jurrah.

Edited October 20, 2010 by E25

[Jaded No More 59,538]

what about the rest of your top 6 Hannabal, will they move up in your rankings when they play in a final and stand up to the pressure ?

Of course, and so they should.

What use is a player who can't perform in finals?

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

No, he's right.

Well, he's right that Watts has put his body on the line more than Jurrah.

Not from what I have seen.

[e25 5]

Watch more footy then Biz.

[Summer Blease 0]

No, I thought he was built like Byron Pickett.

Thanks for the heads up about the shoulder reco, I'd forgotten that too.

Do I need to point out I'm a smart arse, or will some believe the two lines above ?

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'm well aware of the reasons that Jurrah avoids putting his body in certain situations and the shoulder reco certainly wouldn't have helped, but I can only judge what I see. There's no doubt that he'll have a harder edge with more confidence in his body and the more he believes he belongs at AFL level, but he's most certainly been very soft on numerous occasions at senior and VFL level.

I understand his heritage. I've seen coke bottles kicked around on red dirt, where the idea of "taking one for the team" doesn't make a lot of sense when sublime skills are what's in order. Can you imagine what he and others have felt when they've seen hardened AFL bodies with years of weights confront them ? It would be daunting to say the least.

Leon Davis has been AA, but he's just about out of the game because he's soft when the game is at its fiercest. Btw, I don't mention Davis because he's Aboriginal, just because he's the first example to come to mind. Phew.

I love watching Jurrah play, but I want a premiership more. He needs to get harder in contests and not compromise his ability. And I hope he does. I want him to play smart too. I don't want him to get crunched just because he feels like he has to show he can. I want him to take that smarter option and avoid being hit if it's the sensible play. But I also want to see a player that doesn't shy away from contesting. And unfortunately he has.

And if I overdo a point so be it. Many posters here have short memories and some don't understand what it takes to perform in finals.

So is he soft or not yet physically ready? It's one or the other.

I understand what it takes to perform in finals, as i'm sure many other here do to- why is it assumed Jurrah won't perform in a final yet others escape this scruitiny? Sorry buddy barely anyone on our squad has proved they can perform in a final.

Very harsh marker. Massive armchair critique!

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

Watch more footy then Biz.

You watch more footy.

[Hannabal 4]

So is he soft or not yet physically ready? It's one or the other.

Soft. He knows it, I know it, his teammates know it, and yet you're offended ? The shoulder and his body didn't help, but he's played soft footy well before his injury. FFS, it was first noticeable at Casey. The guy avoids contests. What do you guys watch when you go to a game ?

He can improve his timidness. But to the required level ? I think so. I hope so. It's up to him. Davey was soft but improved.

It's not all doom and gloom. He'll be good anyway. But he needs to do more. For himself.

[Roost It 1,434]

No, you're wrong.

No, you're wrong, again.

Back to Jurrah. Labelling him soft after such a short time before he's had a chance to play and train and really get used to a new brand of Football is still way to harsh just as starting threads about him being the "best MFC player ever" is way to stupid.

[Summer Blease 0]

Soft. He knows it, I know it, his teammates know it, and yet you're offended ? The shoulder and his body didn't help, but he's played soft footy well before his injury. FFS, it was first noticeable at Casey. The guy avoids contests. What do you guys watch when you go to a game ?

He can improve his timidness. But to the required level ? I think so. I hope so. It's up to him. Davey was soft but improved.

It's not all doom and gloom. He'll be good anyway. But he needs to do more. For himself.

He plays loose, he isn't soft. Major difference. One suggests he is playing the best game for where he is in his development curve right now, the other suggests he is mentally weak. See where it can be just a little offensive?

[Red Sox 2]

Glad Hannabal has added a bit more to this than having us all search for previous thoughts on the matter. FWIW, I find his thoughts on Jurrah to be spot on.

The suggestion of being harder without compromising his game is correct. From my point of view, I don't have to see him going blindly into packs.

What I will be happy to see is him launching himself at contents, without fear, and attacking the ball at every opportunity. His freakish ability is obvious but this will not be enough on it's own. I'm not sure if he is subconsciously softer or it is more a confidence issue.

If that all comes together, look out. I think it will as he starts to come more and more out of his shell, which he still has yet to do.

[e25 5]

Anything can be offensive if you rearrange the words and read more into them.

[Hannabal 4]

See where it can be just a little offensive?

Yes; I do get offended when players wearing red and blue are soft. Very. And I mark them harshly accordingly.

If you don't think that he is then either you've had limited access to watching him play, or have never played the game yourself. I don't make things up to pot a player. And I'm not mistaking magical and clever decision making and confusing it with avoiding contests. Making excuses for players is a Melb supporters favourite past-time, but it's not a hobby I share.

I won't say any more on it, because it's a good thread being derailed. I love watching him play and hope he improves aspects of his game.

[dee-luded 2,958]

Glad Hannabal has added a bit more to this than having us all search for previous thoughts on the matter. FWIW, I find his thoughts on Jurrah to be spot on.

The suggestion of being harder without compromising his game is correct. From my point of view, I don't have to see him going blindly into packs.

What I will be happy to see is him launching himself at contents, without fear, and attacking the ball at every opportunity. His freakish ability is obvious but this will not be enough on it's own. I'm not sure if he is subconsciously softer or it is more a confidence issue.

If that all comes together, look out. I think it will as he starts to come more and more out of his shell, which he still has yet to do.

TSTS.

[Summer Blease 0]

Yes; I do get offended when players wearing red and blue are soft. Very. And I mark them harshly accordingly.

That's it then hey? Well turn your back on him when he gets the ball if his wearing the red and blue is offending you so much. You don't get to condemn and then cheer.

[rpfc 27,662]

That's it then hey? Well turn your back on him when he gets the ball if his wearing the red and blue is offending you so much. You don't get to condemn and then cheer.

Yeah, you do.

You're the most disappointed in the people you love.

He pulls out of contests, he short steps.

So, what?

It's only a problem if he doesn't grow out of it.

Some on here think he's perfect.

Get a grip.

[Dinosaur Rover 197]

Yeah, you do.

You're the most disappointed in the people you love.

He pulls out of contests, he short steps.

So, what?

It's only a problem if he doesn't grow out of it.

Some on here think he's perfect.

Get a grip.

I dont care if he is soft - I care that he contributes what the team needs of him. This line of argument is implicitly that all players need to come from the same template - that is wrong.

[Red Sox 2]

TSTS.

NFI

[dee-luded 2,958]

NFI

Yeah, sorry Demon Hill, I just wanted to grab your attention.

what I wanted to say is just that its Too Soon to Say, re Jurrah. He looks older than he is. He's only 21 I think. He is a 'ball player', but he also is a 'leader', so I expect he'll mature.

[Summer Blease 0]

I don't think he's perfect, but think the word "soft" is inapropriate considering his character and the sheer brilliance he is capable of. We agree he's no Riccuito or Lenny Hayes.

It looks like this argument is leading into semantics over the negative conotations of the term "soft". We will just leave it here then.

edit-re rpfc

Edited October 21, 2010 by nostradeemus

[Summer Blease 0]

Well then I'd suggest you toughen up.

I'm not sure Jurrah is "soft", more likely he's just not hard. I actually don't want him busting packs just as I don't want Watts to do that. I want them to go when it's their turn. Watts does, Jurrah probably is learning that. Whether he's "scared" (by AFL standards) or whether he's just never played that style of footy and is still learning it I don't know.

As a further point of interest I'm fascinated by peoples rating of Petterd. I love Ricky, I love his courage and competitiveness, but when history is written I think he'll be much lower than many here think. He's not more than a defensive forward, doesn't have the tank to play midfield but more importantly hasn't the disposal or decision making to do it.

My only major ranking difference with those offered is I rate Ricky second last - I don't think he can offer much more than we've seen. Most of the others have blue sky.

In a "draft" of our under 23 he's close to the bottom for me.

Ricky has the moves, may I kindly suggest you may have forgotten them? Fair enough he has been injured for a while.

[Summer Blease 0]

Don't get me wrong, I really like Ricky. But the reality is that last year he played 6 games. 2 were excellent, 2 were good and 2 were terrible. If his only position is defensive forward he would not be a high priority of mine in a draft. That's not the same as rating him as a footballer where he would be higher on my list.

But Old asked us where we'd draft them.

But what is a "defensive forward" per say? All forwards are expected to have a defensive side to their game now. Think of him as a footballer and keep in mind this exercise is mainly based on potential.

Petterd is fearless and he has some tricks up his sleeve. Ellusive in the forward line, beautifull subtle sideways movements. At least that's how I remember him when fit.

[e25 5]

What's an attacking defender?

A defensive forward is one that aims to prevent an attacking defender from having his usual influence.

I understand that this is the aim of all forwards & defenders, but to varying degrees.

[Hannabal 4]

Well then I'd suggest you toughen up.

What a banal comment.