BB's Football Department Review

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

After sitting down to do a List Matrix at the end of the season, i compared it with the one at the Start of 2010

Our draft picks at the moment are 12,32,49,66,83,100

We have about 21 core players ranked either Outstanding, Excellent or Very Good - Bruce, Green, Jamar, Moloney, Rivers, Davey, Sylvia, Frawley, Garland, Bartram, Petterd, Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Bennell, Gysberts, Jurrah, McKenzie, Morton, Watts, Wonaemirri, Bail

Blease and Tapscott haven't played AFL yet

The rest: Paul Johnson, Bate, Dunn, MacDonald, Jones, Warnock, Cheney, Jetta, Strauss, Maric, Hughes, Fitzpatrick, Gawn, Healey, Martin, McNamara, Spencer, Meesen and Newton are the ones that will be reviewed in the end of season FD reviews.

Many of "the rest" will be kept to help develop the side and provide competition and depth to the squad- essential to any football side. Players like Gawn and Fitzpatirck are project players that will take time.

However, the others will be fished around eg- Maric (club that needs small forward), Warnock (club that needs tall FB/Defender), Jones (inside midfielder- can kick goals)

Or simply delisted.

My opinion is the club will be looking to strengthen their position again at the draft.

Our list has gotten younger from the start of the season where 41.2% of our list had played 4-5 years of footy or less, to now 69% of our list being at 4-5 years of footy or less with the McDonald, Miller and Bell retirements. And i think it's fair to say that since 2008, where our list has gotten younger each year, it's gotten better too!

So if we did trade Warnock, it would be for Carlton's first or second pick, or perhaps a player that could help ie backup ruckman

If we did trade Maric, it would be for a second round/ third round draft pick/player that could help

If we did trade Jones, It would be for a first round/second round draft pick/player that could help

I think Jones unfortunately will be traded to the GC for a pick (If he's willing to leave), or to a Club that needs inside mids. PJ will be delisted to move Spencer up onto Senior list- the club won't be delisting him and they'll be throwing him into the deep end, because that's the way to fast-track tall spuds- get AFL games into them. People might be suprised, but don't be when Fitzpatrick plays a few games next year. Gawn will hopefully touch wood play a full season at Casey.

Or, the club might be satisfied with the 3 retirements alread, elevate Jordie McKenzie and take two kids at the draft and one at the rookie draft. But it seems from what I've heard, they'll be looking to strengthen their position at this year's draft.

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

Also if anyone's interested, have a listen to the footy podcast a mate and i do- http://leatherpoisoning.libsyn.com/rss, or search leatherpoisoning on the itunes store feedback appreciated

[John Dee 445]

I think Jones unfortunately will be traded to the GC for a pick (If he's willing to leave), or to a Club that needs inside mids. PJ will be delisted to move Spencer up onto Senior list- the club won't be delisting him and they'll be throwing him into the deep end, because that's the way to fast-track tall spuds- get AFL games into them. People might be suprised, but don't be when Fitzpatrick plays a few games next year. Gawn will hopefully touch wood play a full season at Casey.

Or, the club might be satisfied with the 3 retirements alread, elevate Jordie McKenzie and take two kids at the draft and one at the rookie draft. But it seems from what I've heard, they'll be looking to strengthen their position at this year's draft.

You can't stay on the Rookie list forever, I think both Spencer and McKenzie are at the end of their tether and must either be elevated or delisted.

Edited September 7, 2010 by undeeniable

[Red Sox 2]

You can't stay on the Rookie list forever, I think both Spencer and McKenzie are at the end of their tether and must either be eleated or delisted.

Yes I agree, McKenzie must go! :wacko:

[daisycutter 29,707]

You can't stay on the Rookie list forever, I think both Spencer and McKenzie are at the end of their tether and must either be eleated or delisted.

Don't you just hate it when you get eleated?

[e25 5]

In spite of the terribly misleading thread title, I think you may be right.

We might truly to obtain another early draft pick through trade.

BUT

we have little use for a 2nd or 3rd round pick in a draft when we might not use many selections.

If we can't at least an early 2nd round pick, what is the point in trading?

Might as well go for another club's Addam Maric, eg. Mitch Brown or Patrick Veszpremi.

[JACKATTACK 17]

Overall not too bad, but I'm going to put my nitpicking hat on and disagree with you on a few things.

On exposed form, Jones should be in ahead of some of the names in the "core players" group.

Bennel, Morton, Wonna, Bail were all in and out of the side.

I think Having Gysberts and a couple of others as core players is a bit premature.

Can't agree with delisting of PJ, except if there is a genuine option for his replacement. Spencer is not that. PJ will have at least a year to prove himself.

A third round pick for Warnock would be a good result, second round a sensational result.

Maric has no trade value.

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

1. Jones has played 92 games, and for someone of his experience, to play 22 games and finish equal 13th in the B&F means quite clearly at the moment he ain't in our next premiership side. And i didn't see the rest were players we didn't need for that matter either

2. Bennell kept Wonna out of the side because he was playing so well. Then they managed to fit the two in. Those two are the small forward options, not Jetta and maric, hence their inclusion into the core. Bail was in great form until injured before NM game, and got dropped in the last few weeks once for a matchup purpose only. Morton the same. Injured for most part of the year, and in 3 seasons has already played 50 games. could've been more.

3. Gysberts is certainly not premature. In his debut against the best side in the comp, he showed his class and poise- and backed that up against Carlton the week after- injury ruined his 2nd half of the year

4. Paul Johnson is 26 and has fallen behind Jamar. In the games he played this year, he averaged 7 touches. Not enough for a supposed mobile and skilful big man

5. Never said 2nd or 3rd round picks werent good results for Warnock.

6. Maric does have trade value, plenty of sides would take a punt on him if they're after a small forward. He's a top 20/30 draft pick from memory as well.

[Dee-licious 1,954]

Jones is 22! He is still developing. The fact that he has played 92 games is great for someone that young. (same age as Jurrah, Frawley, Garland, Pettard, Wonna)

So before we all trade him out at least give him another 2 seasons to either kick on or fade away!

Edited September 7, 2010 by Dee-licious

[DemonWorshipper 304]

Jones is 22! He is still developing. The fact that he has played 92 games is great for someone that young. (same age as Jurrah, Frawley, Garland, Pettard, Wonna)

So before we all trade him out at least give him another 2 seasons to either kick on or fade away!

I agree with this. So many posters seem too willing to write off Jones rather than view his role in the side for what it is. 2010 was very much a development year for Jones, his role was different by the end of the season from what it was at the start. Unless the right deal comes up, I think Jones is a required player for at least the next 12 months.

Edited September 7, 2010 by DemonWorshipper

[JACKATTACK 17]

1. Jones is a core player right now, he played every game. He MAY get overtaken by 2,3,4 of these younger players but they havn't yet. Why can't we deal in the here and now, not predictions.

2. Bennell kept wonna out because wonna was injured unfit or wasn't performing. Bennell has never been a core player for us, useful because he is quick. Not core. Jones' good games were better than Jamie's and his worst ones weren't as bad, which is why he played 22 games and Bennel didn't. Bail wouldn't have been dropped "for matchup purposes" if he was as a core player (or better than Jones for that matter). Morton has had a bad year and got dropped because of it.

3. Gysberts has played 3 games. There are no players at any clubs who can play 3 games and be a core player. He is a teenager who has had 3 good games, that is all he is.

4. PJ is no star, but he is the clear 2nd choice. If there is daylight between Jamar and PJ, there is at least as much between him and Spencer. Too risky geting rid of him.

5. Warnock might get a 3rd round.

6. There are several VFL players who have outperformed maric, probably several Casey players who have.

[drdrake 3,185]

We all have our pet players that we like and players no matter what they do we dislike, Cam Bruce is one you either like him or you don't, if you don't you see the negative if you like him you back him, Jones is also getting this. I think looking at our list you need to assess as developing players. I assess our list as per below

A grade Very Good to Elite

Green, Frawley, Davey, Sylvia

A Grade Potential

Watts, Jurrah, Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Morton

B Grade Good AFL Players

Moloney, Bruce, Garland, Rivers, Jamar

B Grade Potential

Blease, Gawn, McNamara, Petterd, Tapscott, Aussie, Strauss, McKenzie

C Grade above average AFL players

Bate, Bartram, Dunn, Jones, Macdonald, Warnock

C Grade Potential

Bail, Cheney, Fitzpatrick, Jetta, Maric, Martin

D Grade had many chances but limited impacted

Johnson

That is how I assess our list, players like Jamar and Dunn you can certainly make a case for them to go up a level but one good season needs to be followed up with another one before the move. In fact Dunn at the end of last year with Bartram would have been in the D grade. You need to give the benefit of the doubt to the younger players, Morton I still believe he can be Elite.

[JACKATTACK 17]

We all have our pet players that we like and players no matter what they do we dislike

Jordie McKenzie is an A-Grade 100%.

Surprised Swan beat him for MVP actually.

I like how you separated potential from the reality.

Edited September 7, 2010 by JACKATTACK

[hrob 2]

bail is far better than C grade potential

[Daytona Demon 0]

My initial impression from reading BP's articles on the AFL site was that he didn't feel this draft had great depth, but he seemed to change his position in his post U-18 Championship article.

He seemed to be more optimistic that there would be some good talent in the later rounds (2nd and 3rd i guess..) for us to pick as well. So who knows, we may trade to improve our draft position.

Whether people like it or not, Jones, Maric, Warnock and even Bate aren't essential to our list, and they would all have some currency in the market. I'm not saying I want any of them to leave, but realistically, if that's the direction the club wants to take, its probably because they believe there are players out there who could better compliment our core group of players.

Who knows, its pure speculation atm. But it wouldnt surprise me to see us try to get all our picks inside the top 50 (perhaps totalling 5 or so...)

[Guest hangon007]

So if we did trade Warnock, it would be for Carlton's first or second pick, or perhaps a player that could help ie backup ruckman

If we did trade Maric, it would be for a second round/ third round draft pick/player that could help

If we did trade Jones, It would be for a first round/second round draft pick/player that could help

With all due respect name names ... otherwise you are just talking general waffle.

Lets take Maric for example if your going to trade him for a "second round pick" in this draft

Who's pick did you have in mind & then what kid did you have in mind to use that pick on? or

Do you have an alternative use for that pick?

How does that improve our list?

If you are going to trade him for a "third round pick" in this draft

Who's pick did you have in mind & then what kid did you have in mind to use that pick on? or

Do you have an alternative use for that pick?

How does that improve our list?

If you are going to trade him for a "player" in this draft

Who? What Clubs?

How does that improve our list?

IMHO many around here are giving us a great "theoretical debate" but are miles, miles short on specifics.

Edited September 7, 2010 by hangon007

[Red and Blue Flame 191]

With all due respect name names ... otherwise you are just talking general waffle.

Lets take Maric for example if your going to trade him for a "second round pick" in this draft

Who's pick did you have in mind & then what kid did you have in mind to use that pick on? or

Do you have an alternative use for that pick?

How does that improve our list?

If you are going to trade him for a "third round pick" in this draft

Who's pick did you have in mind & then what kid did you have in mind to use that pick on? or

Do you have an alternative use for that pick?

How does that improve our list?

If you are going to trade him for a "player" in this draft

Who? What Clubs?

How does that improve our list?

IMHO many around here are giving us a great "theoretical debate" but are miles, miles short on specifics.

Funnily enough i dont know the 100 players wh are going to get drafted weights, heights, how many possessions they got in their last game. That's up to our recruiting officer and the football department. If we can get trade to get picks to draft kids that we see potential in, i think you'll find that the club will move a couple of our players on this season.

I based my information off the chat i had with a board member and Chris Connolly at the best and fairest, and know that If the right deal is struck, warnock jones and maric could all be traded. We all know this only occurs if the player is happy to leave in the first place, happy to leave to go to the proposed club, and also whether melbourne gets anything out of it.

[old55 23,687]

West Coast want a small forward, Carlton want a key back and Kirk is retiring at Sydney.

[e25 5]

West Coast want a small forward, Carlton want a key back and Kirk is retiring at Sydney.

We could potentially be very busy this trade week.

[e25 5]

Just for reference, those teams hold the following 1st Round draft picks:

West Coast - pick 4 (& 27)

Carlton - pick 18 (& 41)

Sydney - pick..? My bet would be pick 21-24.

So, when considering, for instance, that Sydney might want Jones as a replacement for Kirk, we have to be aware that in terms of draft picks the most they can give up is pick 21-24 (at a guess) or a player, or a combination.

Without complicating matters by introducing a 3rd team into the equation, would that be satisfactory for Jones?

[Daytona Demon 0]

IMHO many around here are giving us a great "theoretical debate" but are miles, miles short on specifics.

If we had specifics, then we'd be on the recruiting team wouldn't we.. I mean, what is it you are expecting?

Edited September 7, 2010 by Daytona Demon

[Robbie57 2,022]

Jones should not be traded he is developing well as a specialist tagger. With the departure of Junior that role will be important to fill.

Just because he finished equal 13th doesn't mena he wont be in the core 22 for several years to come.

At the start of the year everyone lamented his attempts to break through packs etc but that was the wrong role for him.

In the back half of the year he looked settled in his new role and he is a good clubman.

[Daytona Demon 0]

Jones should not be traded he is developing well as a specialist tagger. With the departure of Junior that role will be important to fill.

Just because he finished equal 13th doesn't mena he wont be in the core 22 for several years to come.

At the start of the year everyone lamented his attempts to break through packs etc but that was the wrong role for him.

In the back half of the year he looked settled in his new role and he is a good clubman.

I mean I see what you're saying, but Jones has been tried in a variety of roles, as inside midfielder he struggled to have an impact in the clearances/stoppages, was slow and often made poor decisions turning the ball over & getting caught. So they tried playing him more outside, but he doesn't have the footskills or flair/creativity to be damaging in that role.

So the only role he can play is a run-with, because he's not effective being played in the forward line or defence either..

He's a specialist 'tagger'...that's the only role he can play with some effectiveness, and as we saw against North, he just doesn't have the leg speed to go with likes of Brent Harvey..

I just don't see why some think he should be 'untouchable'..

Edited September 7, 2010 by Daytona Demon

[e25 5]

He's a specialist tagger in that he can only effectively tag opponents as slow as he is.

That's what makes him special.

[dee-luded 2,959]

We all have our pet players that we like and players no matter what they do we dislike, Cam Bruce is one you either like him or you don't, if you don't you see the negative if you like him you back him, Jones is also getting this. I think looking at our list you need to assess as developing players. I assess our list as per below

A grade Very Good to Elite

Green, Frawley, Davey, Sylvia

A Grade Potential

Watts, Jurrah, Grimes, Scully, Trengove, Gysberts, Morton

B Grade Good AFL Players

Moloney, Bruce, Garland, Rivers, Jamar

B Grade Potential

Blease, Gawn, McNamara, Petterd, Tapscott, Aussie, Strauss, McKenzie

C Grade above average AFL players

Bate, Bartram, Dunn, Jones, Macdonald, Warnock

C Grade Potential

Bail, Cheney, Fitzpatrick, Jetta, Maric, Martin

D Grade had many chances but limited impacted

Johnson

That is how I assess our list, players like Jamar and Dunn you can certainly make a case for them to go up a level but one good season needs to be followed up with another one before the move. In fact Dunn at the end of last year with Bartram would have been in the D grade. You need to give the benefit of the doubt to the younger players, Morton I still believe he can be Elite.

You didn't think Jamar is very good to elite?