Watts v NikNat

[Dee Fan 3,247]

This will be interesting it will hopefully get a bit of comment from non Dees supporters.

http://www.heraldsun.com.au/sport/afl/pick-1-jack-watts-or-nic-naitanui/story-e6frf9jf-1225895412199

[hrob 2]

it is so easy 2 see that we made the right choice......watts will seriously be amazing

[Guest Rojik of the Arctic]

To me this is a silly debate. Over the next couple of years NicNat might learn to get to contests and rewrite the ruckman's game or he may not. Watts might have a huge preseason and start imposing on games and rip apart backlines or he might become a "what if" player.

Nobody will be able to answer this question until both are 50-75 game players and even then they will be playing different roles so judging will be a waste of time.

I really don't care about NicNat because he doesn't play for us and I'm enjoying watching young Jack come along each game. That's enough for me at the moment.

[BAMF 4,413]

Lazy journalism. "here's my short opinion. What do you think?" Yawn...

I've read much better on the same topic on bigfooty forums.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

And what people outside Melbourne seem to forget is that after Neita retired and with several other players coming to the end of their career, Melbourne desperately needed a young key forward.

But the press and outsiders think it's sexy to keep comparing them and arguing over who should have taken who.

Hodge, Ball, Judd ring any bells....

I hope Nic Nat and Wattsy both play 300 games, win brownlows and multiple flags.

Couldn't give a stuff about anything else!!!!!

[pm24 451]

Lazy journalism. "here's my short opinion. What do you think?" Yawn...

I've read much better on the same topic on bigfooty forums.

You could consider it to be lazy journalism or you could realise the fact that the Herald Sun holds a debate like this each and every week. Last weeks was Pendelbury v Cooney. They've also had ones like Griffin v Deledio etc etc.

Its actually apart of the Herald Sun strategy of utilising the web to engage its readers more effectively. Given how there's continuing to be a drop in newspaper sales this is a very smart move.

The journo's always put their own opinions first before opening up the discussion for others. You can view it as lazy, or you could also view it as innovative.

[Hannabal 4]

I hope Nic Nat and Wattsy both play 300 games, win brownlows and multiple flags.

Couldn't give a stuff about anything else!!!!!

I suppose it's a noble sentiment, but I can never understand why supporters wish success upon another club.

I wish utter failure upon the lot.

(And yes, I realise that that's unrealistic, but you get my drift.)

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I suppose it's a noble sentiment, but I can never understand why supporters wish success upon another club.

I wish utter failure upon the lot.

(And yes, I realise that that's unrealistic, but you get my drift.)

Yeah i was probably a little extreme the other end Hannabal. A moment of weakness.

Good luck to Nic Nat but hope he wins a million wooden spoons while Big Bad Bustling Jack is holding aloft Melbourne's fourth premiership cup in a row!!!!

[Red Sox 2]

There a quite a few names within Demonland that went very very very early into Jack......already they are either back tracking or saying absolute bugger all!!!

Silly and will be sorry.....we'll probably not sorry they'll just be in love with him then!

[pitchfork 181]

Can't really add anything new on Jack.

With Nic Nat, some of the stuff he does looks really good but it just doesn't seem so "special" on reflection. Case in point, a lot of people talk about his second efforts after a ruck contest. Looks fantastic but I'd argue many ruckmen actually just do this "ugly". Jamar often picks up the fumbled ball etc. etc.....For Nic this seems to come naturally and that's impressive, but for some other guys (like Sandilands, Jamar) it can be more or less achieved with the right attitude and good effort level...not all that special in the scheme of things.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

Can't really add anything new on Jack.

With Nic Nat, some of the stuff he does looks really good but it just doesn't seem so "special" on reflection. Case in point, a lot of people talk about his second efforts after a ruck contest. Looks fantastic but I'd argue many ruckmen actually just do this "ugly". Jamar often picks up the fumbled ball etc. etc.....For Nic this seems to come naturally and that's impressive, but for some other guys (like Sandilands, Jamar) it can be more or less achieved with the right attitude and good effort level...not all that special in the scheme of things.

Agreed.

I think in summing them up.....

Nic Nats highlight reel will always look far more spectacular. But his stats and input to the team won't. Jack is the polar opposite and thank god he is a Demon!

[Hannabal 4]

There a quite a few names within Demonland that went very very very early into Jack......already they are either back tracking or saying absolute bugger all!!!

Silly and will be sorry.....we'll probably not sorry they'll just be in love with him then!

What did they say ?

Watts has talent rarely seen in a tall. I've watched and liked him since I saw him play for Vic Metro and Brighton Grammar in 2008. That doesn't mean one can't detect flaws in his game that need to be eradicated for him to make the most of his ability.

Watts plays a soft brand of footy. He'll need to crave more skin on skin contact to make the most of his footy career, otherwise he'll just become a good player. Obviously as he learns and gets bigger we hope and expect to see a more physical aspect to his game, but it doesn't come naturally. The great key forwards of all time had a hard edge to their games and crashed packs.

I'm not sure why you need to post like a [censored] though.

[Guest The Boss]

Nicnat's skills will improve and with time he will become a smarter player, but Watts will never be able to move like he does.

Just wait until Nicnat has had 5 years in the comp, and then try convincing me that MFC made the right choice.

[e25 5]

Great, another visit from the internet's least convincing troll.

[Guest The Boss]

So if someone has a differing point of view, that automatically makes them a troll? Get a life loser!

[Hannabal 4]

Nicnat's skills will improve and with time he will become a smarter player, but Watts will never be able to move like he does.

Just wait until Nicnat has had 5 years in the comp, and then try convincing me that MFC made the right choice.

Naitanui is probably the most overhyped footballer I'v ever seen. And I use the word "footballer" loosely.

Mark Fine had a good suggestion for Worsfold. Tell Naitanui to take the rest of the year off, go and study Ron Barassi's book from the 1970's about how to play football and come back for the preseason.

[Hannabal 4]

The boring poster comments on what is happening today, the interesting poster speculates with logic on what might happen in the future.

You maybe worried. I'm not.

I think there's been tonnes of speculation of what he might become. I'm not sure that that makes for an interesting poster though. I can remember posters speculating on so many ordinary footballers and what they may become. I found it boring. The skill is determining a players upside. Not many have that ability, but it's always been pretty easy to determine Watts' upside. It doesn't take a genius. Mind you, many in the media seem to have been slow to grasp his future worth.

Why do you say I'm worried ? I'm merely stating where he needs to improve. When we drafted him I had expectations of a player that was hopefully destined to be a rung higher than Lyon, or Neitz. We need him to be a star. He was drafted by the MFC to be a star. And I don't mean your garden variety star that is trotted out around here. I watch his play and progress with this bench mark in mind. He is a one of a few bluestone foundations we have for a tilt at a flag. With this in mind, his performances and progress is always going to be scrutinised more than most.

[jacey 333]

And what people outside Melbourne seem to forget is that after Neita retired and with several other players coming to the end of their career, Melbourne desperately needed a young key forward.

I disagree. I would pick the best player regardless of ruck, KPP, Midfielder.

I thought Watts was the best player in the draft then and now. IMO he and Trengove will be elite players in the AFL. Champions of the game, not MFC elite where posters would often have to argue the case for Player A why they should make AA etc.

[Grandson of a gun 276]

I disagree. I would pick the best player regardless of ruck, KPP, Midfielder.

I thought Watts was the best player in the draft then and now. IMO he and Trengove will be elite players in the AFL. Champions of the game, not MFC elite where posters would often have to argue the case for Player A why they should make AA etc.

I just see that as too short sighted philosophy and i would argue that recruiters would/do too.

For Melbourne, they were lucky at that time that not only was Watts the best player, but also perfectly suited to what they needed.

No good drafting a bunch of 6 footers if you've got no-one to kick it too.

[old dee 23,916]

There a quite a few names within Demonland that went very very very early into Jack......already they are either back tracking or saying absolute bugger all!!!

Silly and will be sorry.....we'll probably not sorry they'll just be in love with him then!

I have not been a big fan and I am not ashamed to say so. All along I have said "I hope I am wrong".

My biggest complaint was that he should have played longer at Casey however that is now history and

I will admit he has improved the last three weeks and probably now deserves his place in the team.

As to the queation of him or NN I do not know as I rarely see NN and take the opinion of other commentators.

It does appear to me that at least Jack knows what to do were as NN seems to be lost quite often.

You are right when Jack kicks 50 goals in a season I will love him!

[jacey 333]

I just see that as too short sighted philosophy and i would argue that recruiters would/do too.

For Melbourne, they were lucky at that time that not only was Watts the best player, but also perfectly suited to what they needed.

No good drafting a bunch of 6 footers if you've got no-one to kick it too.

If it's line ball i would go the the type you need but IMO if a mid was the best available, i would pick a mid all day long.

As the situation you put 'let's say Geelong scenerio', you've got a bunch of great six footers, great midfield, not great KPP and draft day comes along, another great mid pops up, i'd draft him.

I'll make the hard call, keep Gablett and trade a Bartel, Corey or even a Selwood for a gun KPP knowing another mid is coming.

[e25 5]

I just see that as too short sighted philosophy and i would argue that recruiters would/do too.

For Melbourne, they were lucky at that time that not only was Watts the best player, but also perfectly suited to what they needed.

No good drafting a bunch of 6 footers if you've got no-one to kick it too.

That's assuming the mids are of the same quality as the KPPs.

If it's on level terms, then you take the need.

But as Jacey says, it still comes down to best available.

I think we've seen this with the 2009 & 2010 drafts to an extent.

The mids we took at pick 11 and especially pick 18 were of similar quality to the KPPs available, but taking the long term view and our recruiters being aware of the KPP riches on the 2010 draft, we went for the mids.

If we don't take a tall with our first pick in this coming draft, I'll be shocked unless there is an outstanding mid that has inexplicably slipped in the order.

[beelzebub 23,387]

From our persepctive its really irellevent how Nik Nat does. Other than the times we play him. What sense in hypothesising between the two. We have one...over and out.

About the only real comparison id make is one has the body ad neds to learn the game, the other knows the game and needs to grow the body.

chalk...cheese...etc

[DemonWA 3,936]

i wouldnt compare them, but am glad with our decision

Just like people were quick to write of jack watts, i think people are now writing of Natinui way too early. Id be very suprised if he didnt imporve to be a good player. Its not often that a ruckman is any good with out a fair few years of experience behind him - think about how long it took sandilands to be the player he is today?

Looking back at the draft, Watts and Natinui were both taken as long term prospects (as key position forwards and ruckmen generally are). Danel Rich had a great 1st year, but being a nuggety midfielder its seems that he hasnt had much room from improvement? Steven Hill has improved quite alot thanks to bulking up a little. I'm sure Jack Watts and Natinui will be more valuable than both of these players, if only becasue KPF's and ruckmen arent as common as good mids...

[Hannabal 4]

For someone who saw him at TAC level and schoolboy level I'm surprised you missed that he was anything but physical.

Why do you assume that I missed his lack of physicality when I watched him at junior level ? I didn't, and am on record as saying that the only query on Watts being a star was whether he was soft. His perceived sotness was adressed by a number of posters pre-draft. As the saying goes: "nothing hard has ever come out of Brighton Grammar". So it was hardly "missed".

Btw, stop saying I'm "worried". It's wrong and annoying. I merely point out that if the soft edge to his game is never fully ironed out he won't achieve the level that I'd hoped and envisaged. At worst he'll be good, I want superfrigginstar.

And to the other poster: well, you're a [censored] poster. Some things just need to be said. You post like an overly excited, cardigan wearing, public servant.