Dunn's performance today

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Newton, Dunn, Miller should be on the draft table now. Simply not up to it.

That will get the opposition clubs dribbling to cough the few remaining draft picks on pure gold.

Bate trade-bait if Carltank are interested. Oh wait, Bate's really good in the second half of the season. FFS.

Lets not toss our cookies yet after Rd 2.

[Summer Blease 0]

Surely you jest or your easily pleased.

I was pleased with the teams overall performance yesterday, I was pleased that Dunn put in a superior performance compared to last week and I was pleased Newton didn't play like he just had a labotomy. I was pleased our forward line resembled a functioning unit yesterday and I am pleased the MFC is looking for plan B and C etc because I feel Miller has lost his making the 22 by default privelages at long last.

I want picking by default to be a thing of the past and it should be if we are to become successful. The fact that Newton and Dunn were in and Miller was out pleased me for reasons not just pertinant to forward structure, it suggests a shift in thinking at the selection table.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,327]

Yep, he still jumps at shadows, even if he does try to pull the tough man act with his opponent (and I did love him getting stuck into that spud Maxwell!).

However he did well today, and there is no doubt his best position is as a forward. His kicking is an asset that we dearly need in our attacking 50.

If Bate and Newton made the same contribution as Dunn today, we probably would have won.

Pretty sure Newton kicked a goal, chased an pressured when forward and offered Jamar the required rest he needed when in the ruck. Cannot recall any glaring turnovers or errors that gave away goals. Not a great performance but he played his part. Bate on the otherhand was very poor. There is no middle ground with him he either clunks everything or fumbles everytime he gets near it.

[Adzman 2,085]

Dunny was alright, but one game is one game. If we handed out 3 year contracts for one game Shannon Motlop would still be on our list!

I hope Dunny can kick on and be a part of it all. I wait hoping he can!

[Chook 14,613]

Bate on the otherhand was very poor. There is no middle ground with him he either clunks everything or fumbles everytime he gets near it.

I posted these stats in another thread but thought I might repeat them here. Bate had a disposal efficiency of 81% yesterday and touched the ball in seven passages of play that led to the ball going inside our forward fifty, two of which resulted in a goal. He did have one turnover that lead to the ball leaving our f50, but this turnover didn't result in the ball entering our d50. In effect, nothing Bate did today hurt us in the only place that matters - the scoreboard. And a few things he did helped us get within one point of the "Premiership favourites."

If every player in our team did as much as him today in this regard, we'd have had about 50 entries into our forward 50 (the only place on the ground that can actually be scored from) vs 20. I don't know if these stats matter to you, but as far as the way I judge football players' worth, Bate was actually one of our best yesterday.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Chook

[Demon trucker 1,779]

Dunny was alright, but one game is one game. If we handed out 3 year contracts for one game Shannon Motlop would still be on our list!

I hope Dunny can kick on and be a part of it all. I wait hoping he can!

This could be the turning point for Dunn, same times it just takes one game for the switch to flick, If he plays like that next week, then it might be that light switch that has been turned on, if he plays a shocker then he is DUNN. In saying that, i feel Dunn has been played out of potion, he is a forward, if he cant make it as a forward then he must go. Also i think newton needs a few games in a row they need to give Him a bit of a run if he can play like that for say 5 games in a row, then he might have future at the club, i feel that he has never been given that opportunity. He can take a mark, he just needs to kick on

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,327]

I posted these stats in another thread but thought I might repeat them here. Bate had a disposal efficiency of 81% yesterday and touched the ball in seven passages of play that led to the ball going inside our forward fifty, two of which resulted in a goal. He did have one turnover that lead to the ball leaving our f50, but this turnover didn't result in the ball entering our d50. In effect, nothing Bate did today hurt us in the only place that matters - the scoreboard. And a few things he did helped us get within one point of the "Premiership favourites."

If every player in our team did as much as him today in this regard, we'd have had about 50 entries into our forward 50 (the only place on the ground that can actually be scored from) vs 20. I don't know if these stats matter to you, but as far as the way I judge football players' worth, Bate was actually one of our best yesterday.

Statistics can tell any story you want them to say. Bate plays at CHF there is a very good chance that the closer you play toward our goal the more likely what you do will influence a score. You could also state the further away you play from the oppositions goal the less likelihood your error will directly influence an opposition score. Bate was close to useless yesterday I saw that with my own eyes. You may have missed this while you were counting stats.

[Chook 14,613]

Statistics can tell any story you want them to say.

So can baseless opinion. But the difference is that statistics can actually be looked at objectively and dissected.

Bate plays at CHF there is a very good chance that the closer you play toward our goal the more likely what you do will influence a score.

Yes, that's true, but CHF is still one turnover away from the ball zooming down the ground and into your opponent's forward-line. If you can avoid turning the ball over, you avoid becoming the cause of your opponents forward 50 entries. The fact is that Bate was responsible for only two turnovers that caused this. Turnovers anywhere on the ground are dangerous, but Bate was able to use the ball effectively enough that he was hardly ever the cause of these turnovers. Nor did he make mistakes that led to the ball leaving our forward 50, where it is most dangerous.

You could also state the further away you play from the oppositions goal the less likelihood your error will directly influence an opposition score.

Also true. Since errors here are less costly, people who make errors here don't hurt their team. Thus, because Bate didn't cause the opposition to score, he didn't hurt the team. Other players turned the ball over in the same part of the ground, leading to opposition scores and so on, but Bate's turnovers didn't cost us the opportunity to score and they didn't result in the opponent gaining more opportunities to score. And at the end of the day, if you are able to stay on the positive side of this ledger, then you helped your team win. If you are on the negative side, then you hindered your team. The fact that turnovers in some areas of the ground are more dangerous than others isn't the players fault.

If there is an area of the ground in which mistakes are being made which mess up your opportunities to score or which allow your opponents those opportunities, then those are simply the areas of the ground in which more focus and man-power should be put. Grimes (as good as he was) fails to lay a tackle in the backline, resulting in a goal? Dunn misses a target in the forward-line causing the ball to turnover and leave the f50? Put more players there, so that when these mistakes are made, the ball can still be held up and these mistakes' costliness can be reduced. The fact is that Bate didn't miss targets on the week-end and was instrumental in getting the ball to where we want it to be.

Bate was close to useless yesterday I saw that with my own eyes.

Can you give me some examples of this? To win a game of footy, you need to get the ball into your forward 50, which is obviously the only part of the ground you can score from, while minimising the length of time the ball spends in your defensive 50. Bate did this significantly better than three quarters of our team. I saw this with my own eyes.

Edited April 4, 2010 by Chook

[Cards13 9,117]

Not sure a 12 possie, 5 mark, 1 tackle performance is turning the corner but he did look better than last week and the 2 goals were good to see. The rotating fwd line looked ok against a flat Pies side. Am really interested to see if we can back it up this week or the rollercoaster continues haha.

[Dee Fan 3,247]

I'd like to see him play on Nathan Bock next week as a tagger to stop Bock's run from the backline.

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,327]

Can you give me some examples of this? To win a game of footy, you need to get the ball into your forward 50, which is obviously the only part of the ground you can score from, while minimising the length of time the ball spends in your defensive 50. Bate did this significantly better than three quarters of our team. I saw this with my own eyes.

Bate fumbles across back 50m when we had the run of play. Bate has kick smothered by Dane Swan on half forward flank in last qtr. Bate misses a free player by 20m with 40 seconds on the clock to win the game. I cannot recall whether these examples lead to opposition scores but they sure as hell did not lead to us scoring which should have been the most likely outcome in all cases.

Can I ask based on your statistical view of the game who was the more valuable Bate or Jamar?

Edited April 4, 2010 by big_red_fire_engine

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

Newton, Dunn, Miller should be on the draft table now. Simply not up to it.

And forget that old line about playing in a good team. What is a good team made of? Good players. These plodders don't cut it.

Bate trade-bait if Carltank are interested. Oh wait, Bate's really good in the second half of the season. FFS.

Completely ridiculous post - fortunately the Football Department would realise this. Dunn and Bate are both very important players for us.

[Chook 14,613]

Bate fumbles across back 50m when we had the run of play. Bate has kick smothered by Dane Swan on half forward flank in last qtr. Bate misses a free player by 20m with 40 seconds on the clock to win the game. I cannot recall whether these examples lead to opposition scores but they sure as hell did not lead to us scoring which should have been the most likely outcome in all cases.

Can I ask based on your statistical view of the game who was the more valuable Bate or Jamar?

In terms of possession leading directly to goals, Jamar had one but also cost us one, but his influence in the ruck and his ability to get the midfielders into the game cannot be understated. Bate also two possessions leading to goals, but cost us one. I'd say Jamar was better simply because of the awesome job he did in the ruck.

But I guess you're saying that if someone else had played instead of Bate, those errors you mentioned wouldn't have been made and we would have scored. I can't say whether that would have happened or not. All I can say is that Matthew Bate had a lot of inside 50s and rarely caused the ball to enter our d50. In those occasions you mentioned, we quickly won the ball back, so his errors weren't costly. And because of that, he had a net positive impact on the game, regardless of whether he looked awkward or not.

But back on topic, Dunn was great because he had a hand in four of our goals and while he did make some errors inside our fifty arc that led to the ball zooming back out, I don't think any of these errors resulted in opposition forward 50 entries and they certainly didn't result in goals.

Edited April 5, 2010 by Chook

[Hiram Cowfreak 75]

Completely ridiculous post - fortunately the Football Department would realise this. Dunn and Bate are both very important players for us.

I don't how many Bate knockers were watching him in the last quarter, but my impression was his right groin was killing him...he couldn't run, should have been off the field.

I doubt he will play this week against the Crows.

[Cards13 9,117]

I don't how many Bate knockers were watching him in the last quarter, but my impression was his right groin was killing him...he couldn't run, should have been off the field.

I doubt he will play this week against the Crows.

1st time I noticed him hold thr groin was right after the Swan smother. He winced and grabbed at it a few times after that. I doubt it would have affected his pace at all Ravi he's not the quickest out there

[Lil_red_fire_engine 10,327]

Completely ridiculous post - fortunately the Football Department would realise this. Dunn and Bate are both very important players for us.

Dunn is not an important player and unless injuries allow I doubt he will be in our starting 22 by mid year.

[Summer Blease 0]

In any case for Dunn, as like alot of our seniors, it's now do or die. Dunn is done if he doesn't do what he did last week every week. There is always a more hungrier youngster lurking in the shadows. Even more so at the MFC- the home of the mighty Demon...

Dunn may have played well and he would have wanted to. The clock is literally ticking for underperfoming statesman of the club. tick, blease, tock, tapscott, tick, watts, tock, gysberts, tick healy(?), tock think you get the point