Gary Lyon Coaching Journey Starts

[Rogue 585]

If Dean Bailey was concerned about nothing more than his win/loss record, he would have topped up the list with mature, experienced players, traded away early picks, kept TJ, never would have dropped Robbo, Wheatley or Whelan, would not experiment with positional changes, and would not tank (see Essendon and Freo).

If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

If that was his plan he wouldn't have been appointed.

I realise you've got it in for Bailey and his forward structure , but he has done more for the future of our club in 2 short years than many coaches have before him. He has done that because he is motivated by long term success, which he may well not get to be a part of, and not by his own short term success.

Whether or not he coaches us to a premiership, is in no way a reflection of how influential he is in getting us there.

I for one will be forever thankful to him for having the balls to put his own ego and reputation aside for the sake of my club's future, whether he coaches us for another year or another ten.

You're giving Bailey too much credit for what he's shown so far IMHO. Culling ordinary and/or older players and 'playing the kids' while losing lots of games is the easy part.

Bailey's followed the same general gist that any coach who got the gig would have done. Although you could mount a case for giving credit for the drastic 'experimentation' versus Richmond I don't think DB was alone.

How these players are developed and what our gameplan and structures are like in 2009 is the start of the hard part, and it'll be interesting to see how Bailey goes.

[Bruce Almighty 0]

Garry Lyon would be a great coach, but Bailey is a great coach and deserves his chance. Lets just wait and see how we go next year, Bailey will demand success as his career will depend on it. But for now Bails has my full support

[Jaded No More 68,965]

Bailey's followed the same general gist that any coach who got the gig would have done.

There is a reason why Bailey scored the job above other more experienced/ well-known candidates, and it wasn't because he looked good in red and blue.

I'm not suggesting that anyone in his position would have gone and drafted 30 year olds to top up our list, but many wouldn't have done the hard thing in trading TJ, wouldn't have list managed for two years to ensure we get ourselves the best possible picks, and definitely wouldn't have played kids ahead of some of our senior players.

I doubt Bennell and Jetta would have got this much game time under some other coaches who have Robbo and Whelan and Wheatley in reserve, and I doubt Morton would have played nearly two full seasons under many other coaches as well.

You also need to give Bailey credit for the remarkable turnaround in one Colin Sylvia, for the great development of our backline and guys like Warnock, Garland and Frawley who at one point or another looked like they were on a journey to nowhere. I think Moloney has changed his game dramatically as well and of course Davey.

As I've said twice already, Bailey might not be our next premiership coach, but he is most definitely going to help us on our way there.

I'm glad Lyon put all this coaching nonsense to bed and that he is right behind Bailey, as we all should be.

If we're still on the bottom of the ladder in 2 years time, then lets talk. But I am willing to bet good money that we'll be playing finals in 2012.

[Mousey 47]

The first 12 games next year will be VERY important.

Although people here has been saying Bailey is a great coach now, which i cant for the life of me figure out how people can think this-6 wins out of a possible 41? i know i know i know the situation is what is it atm, but you cant come to the conclusion that Bailey is a great coach cause i have found it hard to see any sort of game plan or match day genius out of him yet. ON THE OTHER Hand i have seen he can develop youngsters, he seems to have tapped potential that was always there out of Sylvia, he made a guy who was a dud in many peoples eyes in Garland, one of the more exciting prospects we have. BUT, he is head coach, there are development coaches at the club too that would be as much responsible as bailey in the development of young guns.

In conclusion, Bailey will have had two pre-seasons, 44 games and a lot of young talent at disposal in 3 games time. Then it is up to him to show if he has what it takes to be a good match day coach next year, starting in the NAB cup and then again for the first 12 games. If we have only won 0-2 games at the round 12 mark next year i would be very worried about his potential to be a head coach and calling for change, i know its harsh but hey its proffesional sport and as a member and fan i should be able to demand a standard of football my club serves up.

EDIT- also what was said on footy classified about the topic? for some stupid reason they are not showing the store up here in brisbane any more!

Edited August 10, 2009 by mousey

[two sheds jackson 3]

People who are clamoring for Lyon to come in and coach Melbourne have failed to put forward even a semblance of a reason why Lyon would be any good at the job- much like the people who argued that we chase Buckley. The reasoning seems to be that because he was a talented footballer, he will automatically be a talented coach. In fact, when you look at the really good coaches in the last 20 years or so, they were very accomplished -but not especially skilled- footballers. Admittedly they were before my time, but by all reports Malthouse, Sheedy and Matthews were never blessed with anything resembling the skills of a Buckley or even a Lyon, but achieved varying degrees of success by being tough, uncompromising players who would sooner kill you than give up the contested ball. You could probably say the same about Paul Roos and Bomber Thompson. Some people might point to a Malcolm Blight as an exception (and that's debatable in itself), but as a general rule, those are the types of players who've had the most success in coaching, and I believe that this correlation is no accident; I'm being a bit simplistic here, but basically, players who -by sheer pigheaded force of will- managed to achieve more as footballers than players with far more natural ability than themselves, will generally have a better idea of how to get the best out of every player on their list than someone who had more talent in their playing days than most of the guys they are coaching.

Now, Lyon might well be the exception, and it would be equally stupid for me to argue that being a talented player rules him out from being a good coach, but his advocates seem to think he'll be a good coach simply because he was a talented player. I guess people might also point to the fact that he's a club champion, and an inspirational figure who sacrificed his own body for the benefit of the club by playing injured on numerous occasions; this is undoubtably true, and it's a fantastic reflection on Lyon's character, but long gone are the days when being an inspirational personality was enough to get your team over the line. If Bailey is given a proper chance and fails, and if Lyon shows that he has the ability to devise a premiership winning gameplan, then I'll jump straight on the bandwagon. But until then...

Edited August 10, 2009 by two sheds jackson

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Maybe GLyon is the assistant for a few years a la Malthouse/Buckley... As he himself just said on air,"I know exactly where I am at for the next 2 years and that is not a senior coach.".....mmm

Edited August 10, 2009 by Demon Den

[beelzebub 23,380]

A Bailey/Lyon combo in the manner of Malthouse/Buckley certainly has its romantic appeal. How probable or possible is another question. I think Lyon will coach at AFL level one day but it would depend on some aspects of compatability if he were to come in under Bails...and would Bails want that ??? would you ??

[kryton 0]

I would've though the AFL would absolutely everything in their power to get Garry Lyon in place as coach of WS18, especially now that Buckley is tied up.

They need big personalities who are likely to succeed - who else fits that bill?

Barry Hall??

[beelzebub 23,380]

I cant imagine why anyone will want to step up to coach the crippled basketcase from beyond Antartica that will become the WS18. Only an assistant who is eternally overlooked will feel it worth a shot

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

Greg Inglis??

Edited August 10, 2009 by Demon Den

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

....

Fair assessment of the situation.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I would've though the AFL would absolutely everything in their power to get Garry Lyon in place as coach of WS18, especially now that Buckley is tied up.

They need big personalities who are likely to succeed - who else fits that bill?

Weecky Stooowaarttt

[H_T 3,049]

Something tells me that I wish this story came out in another 3 weeks.

<!--quoteo(post=256420:date=Aug 10 2009, 08:35 PM:name=vanlo)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (vanlo @ Aug 10 2009, 08:35 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=256420"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Some of the reactions in this thread are ridiculous... My heart tells me I'd love nothing more than Gary Lyon to coach the Melbourne Footy Club...

However my head tells me that whilst he'd bring a lot of passion to the role,<b> no doubt Dean Bailey is far more qualified to coach our footy club</b>, <b>and shouldn't be going anywhere for at least another 3 seasons...</b><!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Totally agree. The next two years at least anyway. Lyon has a long way to go if he is to be considered as a senior coach.

People are starting to put things together. One is that Bailey will be offered a one year extension on his current contract which would see him as coach until the end of 2011. Lyon has stated that Bailey need not worry for two years, as he is poised to sign a two year contract at Nine.

It all seems to fall into place if Lyon indeed scratches his itch at AIS. Bailey does all the ground work and development which would ensure a more than competitive side for the start of the 2012 season.

In my opinion "if" Bailey and the side have a reasonably good start to next season and the club and Bailey look to extend the coaching term. It should be extended until the end of 2011 (ie. one year extension).

<!--quoteo(post=256452:date=Aug 10 2009, 09:27 PM:name=Brettmcg)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Brettmcg @ Aug 10 2009, 09:27 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=256452"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Oh god!

I'm sorry, but people whinge and complain about Bails, yet they would entrust our club to a completely untried media personality?? As far as I am concerned, so long as we see some significant improvement next year (I'm talking 6-10 wins) and better list/injury management, I am more than happy to give Bailey another crack. I would hate to see Dean Bailey have pulled us through a complete rebuild only to miss out on the opportunity to lead our talented list (which he has built) to a potential premiership.

As for Garry Lyon, don't get me wrong he was a great player and captain etc., but since he moved into the media I have had less and less time for him. I have felt that at times, especially in the years when the club was really in crisis, he did little publicly to defend the club and offered little in the way of public support. I understand that he has played a background role for a long time, but I would have preferred him to be a little more uncomprimising in his public displays of support for the MFC. I do however acknowledge the prominent role he has taken since Jimmy Stynes took over as president, and I am very grateful to him for leading the Casey arrangement as well as his support, both financial and in the media, of our Debt Demolition. Regardless, at this stage it is all speculation, and Bailey is contracted for another year anyway!

We should not let the media get away with this kind of destabilisation, especially at a time where we can start to see glimpses of the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. You just have to look at what that bin forager Hutchison wrote about ex-pres Gardner in the Hun the other day!! I would urge you to call up radio stations and write comments to newspapers whenever you see/hear them make ridiculous comments about OUR club. We ARE a passionate bunch, and the media and football worlds need to know that we will no longer stand being pushed around like little children. Whilst we may not be in the inner sanctum, if you are a member it is YOUR club and WE know it better than any self-serving journalist. Get fired up, demons!<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Good post.

<!--quoteo(post=256482:date=Aug 10 2009, 11:23 PM:name=two sheds jackson)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (two sheds jackson @ Aug 10 2009, 11:23 PM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=256482"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->People who are clamoring for Lyon to come in and coach Melbourne have failed to put forward even a semblance of a reason why Lyon would be any good at the job- much like the people who argued that we chase Buckley. The reasoning seems to be that because he was a talented footballer, he will automatically be a talented coach. In fact, when you look at the really good coaches in the last 20 years or so, they were very accomplished -but not especially skilled- footballers. Admittedly they were before my time, but by all reports Malthouse, Sheedy and Matthews were never blessed with anything resembling the skills of a Buckley or even a Lyon, but achieved varying degrees of success by being tough, uncompromising players who would sooner kill you than give up the contested ball. You could probably say the same about Paul Roos and Bomber Thompson. Some people might point to a Malcolm Blight as an exception (and that's debatable in itself), but as a general rule, those are the types of players who've had the most success in coaching, and I believe that this correlation is no accident; I'm being a bit simplistic here, but basically, players who -by sheer pigheaded force of will- managed to achieve more as footballers than players with far more natural ability than themselves, will generally have a better idea of how to get the best out of every player on their list than someone who had more talent in their playing days than most of the guys they are coaching.

Now, Lyon might well be the exception, and it would be equally stupid for me to argue that being a talented player rules him out from being a good coach, but his advocates seem to think he'll be a good coach <i>simply because</i> he was a talented player. I guess people might also point to the fact that he's a club champion, and an inspirational figure who sacrificed his own body for the benefit of the club by playing injured on numerous occasions; this is undoubtably true, and it's a fantastic reflection on Lyon's character, but long gone are the days when being an inspirational personality was enough to get your team over the line. If Bailey is given a proper chance and fails, and if Lyon shows that he has the ability to devise a premiership winning gameplan, then I'll jump straight on the bandwagon. But until then...<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Agree. Excellent post.

<!--quoteo(post=256505:date=Aug 11 2009, 08:26 AM:name=Demon Den)--><div class='quotetop'>QUOTE (Demon Den @ Aug 11 2009, 08:26 AM) <a href="index.php?act=findpost&pid=256505"><{POST_SNAPBACK}></a></div><div class='quotemain'><!--quotec-->Greg Inglis??<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

No.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

A Bailey/Lyon combo in the manner of Malthouse/Buckley certainly has its romantic appeal. How probable or possible is another question. I think Lyon will coach at AFL level one day but it would depend on some aspects of compatability if he were to come in under Bails...and would Bails want that ??? would you ??

Well if I was in charge of a seven million dollar football club and had won 6 out of 41 games.....mmm.....probably wouldnt be up to me in the end. On the other hand if I was on the committee of a club with 30,000 odd members on the case and a past legend put his hand up to help......Having said that I do support Bails at the moment hes doing the right thing but the jury is out till the end of next year.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

If Dean Bailey was concerned about nothing more than his win/loss record, he would have topped up the list with mature, experienced players, traded away early picks, kept TJ, never would have dropped Robbo, Wheatley or Whelan, would not experiment with positional changes, and would not tank (see Essendon and Freo).

If you can't see that, then I can't help you.

I realise you've got it in for Bailey and his forward structure , but he has done more for the future of our club in 2 short years than many coaches have before him. He has done that because he is motivated by long term success, which he may well not get to be a part of, and not by his own short term success.

Whether or not he coaches us to a premiership, is in no way a reflection of how influential he is in getting us there.

I for one will be forever thankful to him for having the balls to put his own ego and reputation aside for the sake of my club's future, whether he coaches us for another year or another ten.

No, losing now seems to be the courageous and unselfish thing to do, but no one was saying that at the start of the season. The point is, nothing has changed and I don't want to give coach credit for now losing when it's been happening for the past two seasons.

I believe that Melbourne are going to get the PP because they genuinely need it, and not because Bailey or anyone else has masterminded it.

EDIT: Rogue's post hits the nail on the head.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Clint Bizkit

[Allen Jakovich 516]

G Lyon as an assistant coach at the MFC from 2011 under Bailey would be super.

[e25 5]

People who are clamoring for Lyon to come in and coach Melbourne have failed to put forward even a semblance of a reason why Lyon would be any good at the job- much like the people who argued that we chase Buckley. The reasoning seems to be that because he was a talented footballer, he will automatically be a talented coach. In fact, when you look at the really good coaches in the last 20 years or so, they were very accomplished -but not especially skilled- footballers. Admittedly they were before my time, but by all reports Malthouse, Sheedy and Matthews were never blessed with anything resembling the skills of a Buckley or even a Lyon, but achieved varying degrees of success by being tough, uncompromising players who would sooner kill you than give up the contested ball. You could probably say the same about Paul Roos and Bomber Thompson. Some people might point to a Malcolm Blight as an exception (and that's debatable in itself), but as a general rule, those are the types of players who've had the most success in coaching, and I believe that this correlation is no accident; I'm being a bit simplistic here, but basically, players who -by sheer pigheaded force of will- managed to achieve more as footballers than players with far more natural ability than themselves, will generally have a better idea of how to get the best out of every player on their list than someone who had more talent in their playing days than most of the guys they are coaching.

Now, Lyon might well be the exception, and it would be equally stupid for me to argue that being a talented player rules him out from being a good coach, but his advocates seem to think he'll be a good coach simply because he was a talented player. I guess people might also point to the fact that he's a club champion, and an inspirational figure who sacrificed his own body for the benefit of the club by playing injured on numerous occasions; this is undoubtably true, and it's a fantastic reflection on Lyon's character, but long gone are the days when being an inspirational personality was enough to get your team over the line. If Bailey is given a proper chance and fails, and if Lyon shows that he has the ability to devise a premiership winning gameplan, then I'll jump straight on the bandwagon. But until then...

Excellent post 2 Sheds and judging by Garry's comments on Footy Classified he is fully aware of this too.

For those that didn't watch it, he said nothing is in place, he hasn't even spoken to the AFL about taking up a position yet and does not know what it would entail, but he will meet up with them soon.

He said he UNEQUIVOCALLY WILL NOT be taking up any senior coaching roles for at least the next 2 years and that Dean Bailey has his full support. He was adamant on this.

Seems to me the coaching arena is enticing for him but he fully realises how much work he must do and how much personal development is needed in this area for him to be even close to fit for a position.

He may have a good football knowledge on the surface but i think ppl underestimate to full range of skills a senior AFL coach must have. He evidently does not.

[H_T 3,049]

G Lyon as an assistant coach at the MFC from 2011 under Bailey would be super.

What, a similar setup to the Malthouse-Buckley deal? Won't happen if he signs the new Nine contract for two years (pending).

[e25 5]

No, losing now seems to be the courageous and unselfish thing to do, but no one was saying that at the start of the season. The point is, nothing has changed and I don't want to give coach credit for now losing when it's been happening for the past two seasons.

I believe that Melbourne are going to get the PP because they genuinely need it, and not because Bailey or anyone else has masterminded it.

EDIT: Rogue's post hits the nail on the head.

He may not have done anything of great merit in your eyes, but can you point out one place he has put a foot wrong in 2 years of senior coaching?

I'm afraid I can't fault him, beyond giving too much game time to Robertson, Wheatley and at times Bruce.

[Straight Sets Simon 23,113]

He may not have done anything of great merit in your eyes, but can you point out one place he has put a foot wrong in 2 years of senior coaching?

I'm afraid I can't fault him, beyond giving too much game time to Robertson, Wheatley and at times Bruce.

Game day tactics and set up has been questionable, but see Rogue's post, would any other coach done things differently?

Next year will be the big test for Bailey.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

G Lyon as an assistant coach at the MFC from 2011 under Bailey would be super.

Could not think of anything more dysfunctional.

[e25 5]

Game day tactics and set up has been questionable, but see Rogue's post, would any other coach done things differently?

Next year will be the big test for Bailey.

I think you're right, but once again, has he put a foot wrong? Not in my eyes.

In terms of handling situations or winning too many games he has delivered exactly what the team needs.

I'm not saying it makes him a fantastic coach, but I struggle to see a way he could have done any better either.

A solid pass mark for Dean.

[H_T 3,049]

Next year will be the big test for Bailey.

Correct. So any questioning in relation to his tactics where alot of the team has basically been 'blooded' and developed over two years (incl. turning over the list twice) and we have seen many, many injuries.... - IMO is premature.

NOTE: Mind you, with new draft picks and further turnover to come, there is still some developing to do CB.

Can you give some examples of questionnable game day tactics and set up? (With the exception of the last few weeks)

Edited August 11, 2009 by High Tower

[Hannabal 4]

but by all reports Malthouse, Sheedy and Matthews were never blessed with anything resembling the skills of a Buckley or even a Lyon, but achieved varying degrees of success by being tough, uncompromising players who would sooner kill you than give up the contested ball.

Now, Lyon might well be the exception, and it would be equally stupid for me to argue that being a talented player rules him out from being a good coach, but his advocates seem to think he'll be a good coach simply because he was a talented player.

I can't agree with others who've lauded your post.

You've such a simplistic way of looking at things. You're talking about skills as a footballer and using this as a guide to whether someone may or may not be able to coach. You're doing the very thing that you're accusing others of doing.

You even say "by all reports Malthouse, Sheedy and Matthews were never blessed with anything resembling the skills of a Buckley or even a Lyon". You have to be kidding. Matthews was probably the best player I've ever seen and it wasn't just because he was tough, his skills were superb. I know that you never saw him play, so it's best to not comment when you don't know.

You also say "his (Lyon) advocates seem to think he'll be a good coach simply because he was a talented player". I say that that's patent rubbish. They say he'll be a good coach because he was an exceptional captain, a fantastic leader of men that will be instantly respected by any playing group, and just about the best public and private speaker that you'll ever hear. Anyone that has had anything to do with him sees him as an intuitive, intelligent person and a great communicator that was born to be a coach.

Things have a way of taking care of themselves, so I'll not join a worthless debate on here as to whether it will, or should, happen because nothing I say will have the slightest bearing, but I had to protest over a couple of your assertions.

[1858 285]

Hannibal is right about Matthews, great skills and movement.

But anyway back OT I won't comment on the merits of Lyon as a senior coach one day but I must be honest, I'll be pensive throughout his development. Stability will be a very important thing for us at MFC going forward and the last thing we need is a current coach looking over his shoulder for whatever reasons, now or later. Lyon as an assistant coach to DB wouldn't work IMO and for DB to implement the best possible foundation surely he needs long term assurance. I don't have any real reservations against Lyon (depending on what his asperations are) but things may get tricky in the next few years.