Tom Scully Cup Discussion

[H_T 3,047]

As for Scully, don't believe all the hype. You'll get a star at pick 2, 3, 4, 5 or 6 this year I can assure you of that. It's still a good top order draft.

I wouldn't underestimate Tom Scully. It may be a good top order (ie.1-6), but he is a standout.

Edited August 4, 2009 by High Tower

[H_T 3,047]

Hypothetically, if you could have EITHER:

- pick 1 only; OR

- picks 2 and 4

What would you choose?

How do you get picks 2 and 4???

It's more likely either 1 and 2, 1 and 3, 1 and 4 OR ...

No.1 (by itself)

No.2 (by itself)

No.3 (by itself)

No.4 (by itself)

Edited August 4, 2009 by High Tower

[Jaded No More 68,921]

Watts will be good, but I'm not sure he will have a better career than a few of those other guys.

Why did we select him with pick 1 and why did Rich drop so much on draft day then?

Hypothetically, if you could have EITHER:

- pick 1 only; OR

- picks 2 and 4

What would you choose?

Obviously two is better than one, but this year, pick one is very important because there is one standout guy who is clearly above the rest. He may not end up being the best of the lot, but he represents the least amount of risk and the most amount of star quality, which is what you want with your first pick.

That is why tanking is so crucial to us this year, because it's not just about getting two very very good players to our club, it's also about getting THE top rated kid, of which there is only one this year.

I'm sure the draft is not as shallow as what everyone would have you believe, but it's been a while since one kid was the absolute certain choice at pick one since the start of the year, until (presumably) draft day.

[Rogue 585]

How do you get picks 2 and 4???

It's more likely either 1 and 2, 1 and 3, 1 and 4 OR ...

No.1 (by itself)

No.2 (by itself)

No.3 (by itself)

No.4 (by itself)

It's a hypothetical to compare the value of the first pick versus two very early picks.

In general I'd be inclined to take 2 & 4 over 1, but I'd be open to changing that depending on how propsects were rated in a particular year.

I don't know enough about this year's draftees to make a definitive statement.

What would you take?

[DeeBest 13]

How do you get picks 2 and 4???

Can't happen now since WC won, but as I said the question was HYPOTHETICAL. I'm making a point about what is more important - PICK ONE or TWO PICKS INSIDE THE TOP FIVE.

To me, two picks inside the top five is a better, more valuable prize than landing Tom Scully.

HYPOTHETICAL. KEY WORD.

[H_T 3,047]

It's a hypothetical to compare the value of the first pick versus two very early picks.

In general I'd be inclined to take 2 & 4 over 1, but I'd be open to changing that depending on how propsects were rated in a particular year.

I don't know enough about this year's draftees to make a definitive statement.

What would you take?

Oh.

I'd be inclined for 2 and 4 in that regard, hypothetically.

However, West Coast are out of the equation.

So, I would be happy with 1 and 3, content with 1 and 4, over the moon with 1 and 2. :D

PS. I must stop speed reading..

[Hannabal 4]

As for Scully, don't believe all the hype.

I've seen Scully quite a few times over the last 12 months and he'll be a star. You're welcome to disagree.

And as you know, Rich and Selwood were both considered top 2 quite a way out from their respective drafts. Selwood slid due to missing the champs with his injury. I just don't reckon they're great examples, more anomolies than anything.

[DeeBest 13]

I've seen Scully quite a few times over the last 12 months and he'll be a star. You're welcome to disagree.

He will be a very good player, but I'm trying to say pick 2, or pick 3 or pick 6 could end up being just as good. Joel Selwood is a star and he went pick 7.

It was all Scully and Butcher until mid year, and since Butcher dropped off it's really been a one man show. All I'm trying to say is that a couple of others aren't the length of the Flemington straight behind him and that is currently how the media are portraying it. Paticularly given the other contenders are interstate players and they dont generate much publicity over here.

[Akum 2,660]

As far as I am concerned, Bailey may as well 'experiment' again this weekend. If he doesn't it will only make last week look worse, as if he were caught out so this week he is on his best behaviour. Just roll with it again Bails. Who cares if the world is watching us, just do your thing and to hell with the cynics.

I am not surprised some of the players are not happy with what took place. But they'll get over it.

Sorry to go back so far in the discussion, haven't had email access all day, but this is an excellent point. The worst thing he could do now is to stop all the experimentation. The best way to show that we're seriously experimenting and not tanking (i.e. playing to lose on the field) is if we do exactly the same level of experimentation against Freo and thrash them.

And Jaded, the impression I got was that Caro was referring to the Richmond players being not happy about playing against a side that they thought weren't trying to win. But think about it - which players in Caro's favourite team would be likely to admit to her after the game that they thought the bottom side who they'd just scraped a very lucky win against weren't even trying? They'd be more likely to tell her "oh no, the players were trying their guts out - they're much better than we thought!" Could be a product of Caro's imagination perhaps?

But you might be right - has anyone heard on the grapevine of any dissatisfaction among the Dees players? Cos frankly I find it hard to believe anything Caro says, she works on the basis that if you throw up enough wild rumours then sooner or later you're bound to get one right.

[Redleg 40,926]

He will be a very good player, but I'm trying to say pick 2, or pick 3 or pick 6 could end up being just as good. Joel Selwood is a star and he went pick 7.

It was all Scully and Butcher until mid year, and since Butcher dropped off it's really been a one man show. All I'm trying to say is that a couple of others aren't the length of the Flemington straight behind him and that is currently how the media are portraying it. Paticularly given the other contenders are interstate players and they dont generate much publicity over here.

You are clearly correct that player 2-6 could be better than Scully, if he is 1, as it is with every draft. You are also correct that two of the top 6 players is better than just pick 1.

However at the moment those of us that are not as familiar with the players available are being led to believe that Scully could be the next Judd and therefore we are all salivating at the prospect of getting him and another possible future star to add to our young and exciting list.

Edited August 4, 2009 by Redleg

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I'm not sure I agree with this. Just because we beat the Roos doesn't mean we won't mega tank against Freo, who could be hungry. If we can win on the weekend, they can win against us...

I would be greatly concerned. And as many have said, we will be greatly exposed. Just imagine what the Roos players would be saying in their sledges? If that wouldn't fire up a dees victory, nothing will. Also, the boys will be playing angry after last week. Lord knows they deserve a win.

My one relief is that the Roos aren't in the position we are. They will not benefit from tanking, as they already have more than 16 points. They can only marginally improve their adder position.

What's more, Crocker will be going for a win for himself... Also, if they lose to a side tanking like the dees, the fallout at THEIR club will be worse than anything we could muster for a demons win.

We'll lose. But by gee, I hope it's not as close as last weekend.

So I'm one up on you then...

Snap!

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

You are clearly correct that player 2-6 could be better than Scully, if he is 1, as it is with every draft. You are also correct that two of the top 6 players is better than just pick 1.

However at the moment those of us that are not as familiar with the players available are being led to believe that Scully could be the next Judd and therefore we are all salivating at the prospect of getting him and another possible future star to add to our young and exciting list.

I have an idea. Just for shits and giggles, and just to take the focus off Scully... Why not select Trengove at 1, then Scully at 2?

[Hannabal 4]

It was all Scully and Butcher until mid year, and since Butcher dropped off it's really been a one man show. All I'm trying to say is that a couple of others aren't the length of the Flemington straight behind him and that is currently how the media are portraying it. Paticularly given the other contenders are interstate players and they dont generate much publicity over here.

I understand. Morabito and Trengove look terrific. It would be interesting to know who would be chosen first out of Lucas and Morabito from the WA clubs. Morabito's upside is enormous and the kicking concerns are exagerated imo - albeit from very limited viewing.

[Sir Why You Little 37,043]

THe Club & Members Pay the Players Wages. The Club pays the Coach to do a job.

Bad Luck if the Players are pi$$ed off for a week or two. The Players are paid to do a Job. A Job given to them by the Coach & Footy Dept.

Caro should get her nose out of the Trough, I have heard her say that Melbourne should not win Games this year.

Wilson just didn't like seeing her Tigers shown up to be so pathetic.

Everyone has been predicting these matches all year. Journo's are just Vultures living off other peoples stories.....aint it the truth.

[Gorgoroth 12,955]

So are we going to roll out a banner "Welcome to the MFC Scully" at the end of the Carltank game

[H_T 3,047]

So are we going to roll out a banner "Welcome to the MFC Scully" at the end of the Carltank game

No, wait until after Round 22.

[dee-luded 2,959]

Tom Scully, Tom Scully! This time last year it was Jack Watts, Jack Watts! Now there are many on this forum who reckon Jack WON"T BE THE SAVIOUR we hoped for. I don't agree BTW but that's what is being said. Anyone would think that this guy (Scully) is going to be another Judd or Hodge or Franklin. But let's face it ,he is only a promising JUNIOR at this stage. We must always be aware of the fact that there are many LATE MATURERS out there. I am sure that even St Kilda and Geelong will get good draft picks even at their late stage of choosing. If we don't get Scully, what's wrong with Trengrove, Butcher, Morabo and the other early draft picks? Remember, Judd went at #3 and a couple of years later Jimmy Bartell went at #8. Roughhead was a #2 pick and Lance Franklin selected at #5. I started to watch the Richmond game with an open mind on whether it was good to lose or not. Had we taken it easy and got blown away I would have thought, " We are trying to make sure we get what we want in the draft." However, watching Junior and others bust their guts out for a win I wanted a Demon victory for the reasons I have outlined above. Scully is NOT the only good kid around. Let's not get paranoid.

If we don't get Scully, what's wrong with Trengrove, Butcher, Morabo and the other early draft picks?

Bobby, Bobby, Bobby, each of these players unfortunately only possess one head, 2 arms & 2 legs.

I want the footy monster, it has 2 heads, 4 arms & 4 legs, & all it's features are superior to most of the others. B)

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

In your dreams maybe.

I'm not convinced Watts will be a dominant player in the future no. A few players out of last years top 10 have stepped up and had a big impact already,

???

The concern at the time was that Rich was more or less at his ceiling. He has no physical development yet to go, and thus no upside. He was always going to be in the top 3 of his draft come the end of 2009...

Watts is still a teenager and is built like a broomstick. If he puts weight on, he'll be able to put his skill into effect against the bigger bodies. The idea being that you look at how he plays against kids of equivalent development to see if he outmoves them, which he did. ie, the talls take longer. Look at J. Brown. Took him ages to come into any kind of form, and now he's one of the best talls of recent years, and almost singlehandedly makes Brisbane a presence in the AFL.

Are you saying that because a guy is bottom age, and may only become the player he will become by his early twenties, that we should recruit all nuggety overdeveloped teenagers?

Thank goodness you're not in charge of MFC's recruiting. You, like everyone else, have no idea what kind of player Watts will become. He COULD still be great. If he's given the opportunity.

[Hannabal 4]

Thank goodness you're not in charge of MFC's recruiting. You, like everyone else, have no idea what kind of player Watts will become.

I must say I did find it amusing when Deebest started comparing other top 10 draft picks from last year when referring to Watts. Either he was genuinely surprised at how well some have done, which he shouldn't be, or he expected much more from Watts already, which he shouldn't have.

I just think he doesn't like Melbourne's recruiting and it plays out in his posts.

[Guest fatty]

Hypothetically, if you could have EITHER:

- pick 1 only; OR

- picks 2 and 4

What would you choose?

Its an interesting proposal. With the benefit of hindsight, do you take Cooney at 1 or Maclean/Sylvia in 2003?

I'd lean towards Cooney.

But the real point is that the club needs to put itself in the best position to build a premiership side and

is looking at first dibs on the two best prospects in the land.

Why would you pass up that opportunity?

[dee-luded 2,959]

Its an interesting proposal. With the benefit of hindsight, do you take Cooney at 1 or Maclean/Sylvia in 2003?

I'd lean towards Cooney.

But the real point is that the club needs to put itself in the best position to build a premiership side and

is looking at first dibs on the two best prospects in the land.

Why would you pass up that opportunity?

Thats easy for me, 2 & 4. The early picks are very good. If you mean this year, the first two are said to be close, the next 6 to 8 are all similar standard, not that far behind the top 2.

Two players will allways be better than one.

[Hannabal 4]

Two players will allways be better than one.

It's an interesting discussion. As Fat suggests, right now you'd take Cooney over the Sylvia/McLean package. I'd also take Riewoldt over Kosi/Didak.

But yeah, as a rule you'd have to take the two picks over the one.

[Guest fatty]

But yeah, as a rule you'd have to take the two picks over the one.

So what would you do this year? Scully at 1 or go for a package?

BTW - I'm thinking about changing my name to fitty. Is the "I" thing working for you?

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I just think he doesn't like Melbourne's recruiting and it plays out in his posts.

It is very early days. Plenty of years to go before BP turns into the next CAC. Hated, then adored by all, then hated as soon as he moves to another club.

But yeah, as a rule you'd have to take the two picks over the one.

For us, certainly. We need cattle and lots of it. Not just a problem solving name here or there. We haven't got enough depth to be chasing a single name. Usually, though, I'm all about getting one big star every year. Won't always work, but then you only need your 6 big names. The rest is up to good coaching, mentoring, development, resources...

I've long been of the opinion that a big name is worth more than 4 average ones. If you look through the entire history of trades, when there's been one big name traded for 2, or 3 lesser names, you always scratch your head and say "what were they thinking?"