John Butcher

[1858 285]

I guess you really despise Richmond.

I love them. They make me so happy by finishing 9th most years. :D

Yes, much happyness eminates from this I must admit.

I agree that hard decisions will need to be made. Don't forget the PSD#1 might come into play/decision making regarding the KPF scenario. We might get 2 mids with the first two picks, we might not. Decions, Decisions....

TBH I'm not holding my breath with the PSD, teams will do almost anything I reckon to get something for their players these days. We'll have 1st pick and I know many players could be let go but I wouldn't factor it into what quality kids we will go for in the ND. I reckon Pick 18 is the key to a lot of this and will turn a good draft into a killer draft for us - good luck to the staff who have to nut all of this out though.

[1858 285]

Yeah, Vickery would've been very handy last year too, but you can't have every player in the draft.

Just take the best on offer.

I was slightly tongue in cheek there but you are right none the less.

[Lord Travis 10,763]

I posted my concerns about Butcher on here early in the year when he was all the rage. It seems I was right to a degree, in that he is more of a man amongst boys body-wise out there, abit like Tom Hawkins was, so he's going to dominate at that level, but IMO doesn't have the talent to be a top line forward at AFL level. He's also an arrogant petulant little sh*t.

I'm hoping we take Scully and Trengove. Would be disappointed with Moribito, as while he has good pace, his kicking isnt great and he doesnt seem a smart footballer. Not worth a #2 pick for mine. Would not be disappointed with Kane Lucas, as he is pretty classy allround IMO.

[Carn dees 108]

Watts Jurrah Butcher Bate Is there room? TBH IMO one to many .

[Rogue 585]

Watts Jurrah Butcher Bate Is there room? TBH IMO one to many.

IMO there's plenty of room.

Of course, this is assuming they all make the grade and remain injury-free etc.

[Old Gregg 1]

I agree that hard decisions will need to be made. Don't forget the PSD#1 might come into play/decision making regarding the KPF scenario. We might get 2 mids with the first two picks, we might not. Decions, Decisions....

I don't envy BarryPrendergast atm. A Key forward or a midfielder?? Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

[Guest]

I don't envy BarryPrendergast atm. A Key forward or a midfielder?? Damned if he does, damned if he doesnt.

It sounds obvious, but I think we should go with the least speculative. From my limited knowledge of Butcher and Trengrove - that would be Trengrove.

At this stage in our development, we need help in many areas - so we should be risk adverse and go with Scully and Trengrove and look at big bodied talls with our later picks.

[Roost It 1,434]

I posted my concerns about Butcher on here early in the year when he was all the rage. It seems I was right to a degree, in that he is more of a man amongst boys body-wise out there, abit like Tom Hawkins was, so he's going to dominate at that level, but IMO doesn't have the talent to be a top line forward at AFL level. He's also an arrogant petulant little sh*t.

I'm hoping we take Scully and Trengove. Would be disappointed with Moribito, as while he has good pace, his kicking isnt great and he doesnt seem a smart footballer. Not worth a #2 pick for mine. Would not be disappointed with Kane Lucas, as he is pretty classy allround IMO.

When injury free he's dominated. I would doubt that he won't become a very good player. Do we pick him above Trengove - Over to you Barry. My gut tells me we will The reason being is that our list is 3 -4 years away from establishing itself, giving both Butcher and Watts plenty of time to learn the game at AFL level. We've got a plethora of mids including pick 18 if we see fit, not to mention the next few drafts. Good talls don't come around very often thus Butcher would still be squarely in the club's sights.

Scully, Sylvia, Grimes, Blease, Morton, Petterd, Strauss, Davey, Bennell, Jetta, Jones, Moloney, Mclean - that's alot of midfielders and I know they won't all make it but they don't all have to.

[Bingo 305]

I'd take the Sydney approach...in that draft safe players then trade for an established tall.....eg hall, ball, jolly etc

so it'd be scully and trengrove for me

[Grimes_4_captain 0]

I think quality mids can make average forwards look better, look at geelong, mooney and hawkins are nothing special and they kick like miller and newton! but becasue of the quality delivery to them they look half ok and get the opportunitys!

the 2 best mids in the draft for me!

[Ryan Dee 140]

I think quality mids can make average forwards look better, look at geelong, mooney and hawkins are nothing special and they kick like miller and newton! but becasue of the quality delivery to them they look half ok and get the opportunitys!

the 2 best mids in the draft for me!

Correct. Some people are saying we already have enough midfielders but not really. We need to draft specifically for the position and not just have midfielders who play other positioions as well, we have enough of those.

[dee-man 0]

It would be a big call to pass on Trengove, especially considering his recent performances in the SANFL.

He's been going so well that if a non-Vic team at the 1st pick then I'm not so sure that Scully would be an obvious choice. Butcher would be nice but we should still go with the two best kids available

As a reply im a SA guy but hate both SA teams & over here you dont hear a word about Skully,obviously partly because the media here talk theyre own up & also we dont get much info about TAC cup except scores & best players.With 100% certanty the Crows & Power would both take Trengove at 1 if they had that pick.Rate him very highly & he has been gathering 30plus possies every week playing in Sturts league side.Heres my picks then.1 take Skully,2 take Trengove & with our 3rd pick i believe that Matt Panos might still be around,over here theyre saying he will go in 2nd round.That would be perfect,2 elite mids then the leading goal kicker in u18 carnival for our 1st 3 picks

[Carn dees 108]

To me that would be about the perfect outcome getting scully trengove and panos.

The only thing toping that would be butcher over panos.

[cooko 124]

i think everyone is forgetting the fact that Trengove can also play forward! i know he isnt as tall as butcher.. but he could be similar to most of the cats players where you can put him in the mid or forward line depending on what the team needs during each game!!

Trengove for pick 2!!

[cooko 124]

also.. what would you guys think of Ah Chee with our 3rd pick (18th)? would he be worth it? if he was still there i think he would be pretty exciting!

[dimmy 1,308]

There are no words to describe how disappointed I would be if we were to trade any of our early picks this year.

Agree, sick of hearing about trading draft picks for players, when the same people have been rejoicing about the long term benefits of gaining draft picks. Cannot work some people out. : :angry:

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

I think quality mids can make average forwards look better, look at geelong, mooney and hawkins are nothing special and they kick like miller and newton! but becasue of the quality delivery to them they look half ok and get the opportunitys!

I think a big reason why Geelong lost the flag last year was due to a lack of quality Key Position forwards to influence the game. They got it inside 50 a heap of times and kicked a huge amount of points, they struggled to take contested marks inside 50 in decent field position. They couldn't convert their opportunities up front...

If you consider that we'll have Scully, Strauss and Blease to throw into the mix next season (all of which i believe will become very good/elite AFL mids) in addition to what we already have, I think we're looking pretty solid in that department.

A lot will depend on how well they perform at draft camp. I think its a bit unfair to say that Butcher dominated U-18s last year cause he was a man against boys. He looks a much better athlete than T. Hawkins, which will make it easier for him to make the transition to AFL.

If Butcher tests impressively for pace/agility/vertical jump its going to be hard to overlook him at no. 2.

We need a power forward to compliment Watts, Jurrah and Bate who are more versatile types that can push up through the midfield. Butcher could really make our forwardline setup very formidable - he would give us greater flexibility imo.

Considering there are very few KPP prospects available, if we took Butcher at 2, we're still likely to get a talented midfield type with pick 18. Whereas if we wait till pick 18, its unlikely there'll be a tall around that's worthy of such a high pick.

I don't buy into the idea that stocking up on gun midfielders will necessarily deliver you a flag. While its nice to have a number of high quality mids in the mix, you need to get the job done up-forward as well. I'm not convinced that any of the mids. available after Scully are 'standout' prospects in the same way he is. There are a number of quality midfield players, but they seem to be a pretty even bunch.

I see Watts more as a versatile type that can play as a lead-up forward, but will be even more effective for us rotating through the middle where he can use his pace, agility, height, decision making skills and kicking to give us another dimension in the midfield. He's already shown a natural ability to find the ball. He'll spend a lot of time there in the future I believe - but we need another gun KPF who's job is to lead deep inside 50, take a contested grab, and kick goals. Butcher looks like he fits the bill...

Having said that, if we don't go down the Butcher path at pick 2, I wonder if Gary Rohan could be a smoky for that pick?? Trengove looks similar to a Grimes or Sylvia to me. We could really do with a midfielder thats got some explosive pace and a bit of flair about them. From what i've heard, Gary Rohan's got them both, and plenty of upside as well.

Mick Turner's said he's the most exciting player he's seen in 15 years at the Geelong Falcons. I know he's not one to shy away from pumping up the tyres of his charges, but that's a pretty big wrap considering the likes of Hodge, Jonathon Brown, Bartel, Gary Ablett, Boak, Dangerfield, have come through that system...

We'll see i guess...Draft camp will have a big influence I think on who we pick.

[Adam The God 30,427]

also.. what would you guys think of Ah Chee with our 3rd pick (18th)? would he be worth it? if he was still there i think he would be pretty exciting!

Could he fall to our fourth pick?

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

I love how some players reputation procede them at times.

John Butcher - while a talented prospect has a LONG way to go.

I think some people are overrating him on his performances at the Championships last year.

His TAC season has been up and down and he was by no means a standout in the Championships this year.

He will be drafted in the Top #10 this year on potential - but those talking him up as the next big thing at FF/CHF need to relax a little.

[H_T 3,049]

I love how some players reputation procede them at times.

John Butcher - while a talented prospect has a LONG way to go.

I think some people are overrating him on his performances at the Championships last year.

His TAC season has been up and down and he was by no means a standout in the Championships this year.

He will be drafted in the Top #10 this year on potential - but those talking him up as the next big thing at FF/CHF need to relax a little.

Thanks for the heads up. Do you think he's injury during the Champ's hampered his form at all this year?

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Thanks for the heads up. Do you think he's injury during the Champ's hampered his form at all this year?

No worries.

Look his injury may well have hampered him and his form this year.

While I seem to be harsh on him - he has his good aspects too which will appeal to clubs:

He's not scared of the collision and he jumps honesty at the footy in the air, he has a great pair of hands.

However, like all kids in the draft he has his downsides also:

His kicking is extremely hot and cold (im also referring to field kicking here) - and his efforts over a 4 quarter period leave a lot to be desired.

Sadly has looked out of sorts with his peers as well this year (at Maffra and Gippy). He's got some talent but has struggled to impact this year, and I personally would love to see him at CHB for a few games to demonstrate his versatillity.

But thats only my opion - hope it helps <_<

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

I love how some players reputation procede them at times.

John Butcher - while a talented prospect has a LONG way to go.

I think some people are overrating him on his performances at the Championships last year.

His TAC season has been up and down and he was by no means a standout in the Championships this year.

He will be drafted in the Top #10 this year on potential - but those talking him up as the next big thing at FF/CHF need to relax a little.

Franklin didn't standout at the 04' championships either. A lot of KPP don't... He's been better at TAC cup than what people are giving credit for. He's been hampered by a lack of a pre-season and injury issues.

I'd say he's top 5 not top 10. I think you're under-rating him fwiw...

[Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde 0]

Franklin didn't standout at the 04' championships either. A lot of KPP don't... He's been better at TAC cup than what people are giving credit for. He's been hampered by a lack of a pre-season and injury issues.

I'd say he's top 5 not top 10. I think you're under-rating him fwiw...

While I take your point,

If you go back to the pre draft hype of 2004 - Franklin while not standing out, had more going for him by way of X Factor, aerobic capacity and mobillity.

He was also exposed to senior football in the WAFL (with Perth) and was touted to be a ruckman initially.

In an eggshell: if Franklin didn't make it as a forward - his attributes, would allow him to have the potential to play in a variety of roles elsewhere.

It's apples and oranges in a sense.

This is why I've previously stated (Post #71) that I'd like to see him play somewhere other than FF for a bit.

Edited August 11, 2009 by Dr Jekyl & Mr Hyde

[Scully The Tank Engine 0]

While I take your point,

If you go back to the pre draft hype of 2004 - Franklin while not standing out, had more going for him by way of X Factor, aerobic capacity and mobillity.

He was also exposed to senior football in the WAFL (with Perth) and was touted to be a ruckman initially.

In an eggshell: if Franklin didn't make it as a forward - his attributes, would allow him to have the potential to play in a variety of roles elsewhere.

It's apples and oranges in a sense.

This is why I've previously stated (Post #71) that I'd like to see him play somewhere other than FF for a bit.

Fair enough. But I wasn't really comparing Butcher to Franklin, i just meant to say that neither really performed particularly well at the u-18's champs, so we should be taking into account whatever upside he might have, not necessarily what he's delivering now.

I'd say he'd probably be more comparable to a Jarryd Roughead. It'd be interesting to see how he would go down back. The fact he is pretty athletic, can take a contested mark, and reads the play well would indicate he'd go alright in defence...

[e25 5]

Fair enough. But I wasn't really comparing Butcher to Franklin, i just meant to say that neither really performed particularly well at the u-18's champs, so we should be taking into account whatever upside he might have, not necessarily what he's delivering now.

I'd say he'd probably be more comparable to a Jarryd Roughead. It'd be interesting to see how he would go down back. The fact he is pretty athletic, can take a contested mark, and reads the play well would indicate he'd go alright in defence...

You want to take Butcher on a wing and a prayer!

What qualities does he have that make you think he's a sure thing?

Beyond good hands and height, what has he got?