Emma Quayle's article on tanking

[donny williams no 25 0]

Both in an extreme way.

What the supporters would think has no bearing on team selection or coaching strategies for that week.

If any football department official or Board member were to think that way, they should be sacked or resigned. I want the Board to deliver a flag. Its naive small mindedness that delivers one week of joy for some and 10 years of lost opportunity.

We would be a laughing stock of the AFL. We have beaten Carlton again and lost access to a better player through the PP. We have learned nothing from two years ago. We clearly have no blue print being put in place to get the side to be a power in the AFL again. We would have no interest to sponsors who will rightly see us as a Club with no serious intent to be truly successful.

By the way, ours is not a year to year existence. The AFL needs MFC to make up the compliment of team to deliver TV rights of 8 games per round for 22 rounds per year. The reason GC and WS are coming into the competition is to increase penetration of AFL in non AFL states and increase weekly content of AFL to 9 games for FTA and cable TV thereby pushing up the value of TV rights

For the record unless we pull a big sponsorship out of the bag next year and reduce the debt to zero we will struggle again to break even. So its almost a given next year will be tough financially. And putting Carlton out of the finals will be as memorable as R 22 2007.

And in years to come we can also watch Scully dominate in the AFL..... in Freo colours and say wasn't it good all those years ago when we beat Carlton to put them out of the finals?

Its no wonder we have had no real success in 45 years.

Well, I'm sick of this bloody debate! I'm giving notice that I'm not trying until next year.[incidentally I think Holland DID play the last match as a farewell]

If you believe that Board Members who feel as I do should be sacked, then prepare for some sacking, and start with the president.Try and tell me, if you saw him on TV last Friday night, that in the circumstances I've outlined, he wouldn't want MFC to knock out the Blues. Of course he bloody well would!The position would be so different to 2007 as to be incomparable.

Let's assume [horror of horrors] that we beat the Swans. How do we avoid beating Freo? What if we win, say, 4 of the last 6, including against the Blues.This is not a short-term, useless gain. It's meaningful if Watts Jurrah Bennell Jetta Grimes, Cheney, Morton have had a few wins under their belt and believe that they can take on good sides in 2010. Yes, we only get 1 decent draft pick--yes we miss Scully--but there would still be a considerable upside.

As to the financial situation, I can only say that you have no idea how bad it has been and how difficult it may be to get directors of a club which is arguably trading whilst insolvent. It remains a HUGE issue. And a move to Launceston would not change the number of teams--the Tassie Demons would simply take the place of our Demons and with a government guarantee. I acknowledge that the figures would be different if we went to G.C or West Sydney

[Einstein 1]

Thanks, what's your source?

I check the match stats off http://stats.rleague.com/afl/seas/2007.html

And they would seem to be wrong.

Same source Rhino. But I'm looking at 2008 not 2007 bro.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/2008.html

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Same source Rhino. But I'm looking at 2008 not 2007 bro.

http://stats.rleague.com/afl/stats/2008.html

All these bad years become a blur!

[Einstein 1]

All these bad years become a blur!

Sure do. It's a little like a long term concussion isn't it.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

If you believe that Board Members who feel as I do should be sacked, then prepare for some sacking, and start with the president.Try and tell me, if you saw him on TV last Friday night, that in the circumstances I've outlined, he wouldn't want MFC to knock out the Blues. Of course he bloody well would!The position would be so different to 2007 as to be incomparable.

You haven't got a clue what Stynes is actually thinking. He, Schwab and Connolly are far shrewder people than you would realise. From the MFC perspective, its the same position and the same outcome if we win 5 games...in fact its worse. That is all that counts

Let's assume [horror of horrors] that we beat the Swans. How do we avoid beating Freo? What if we win, say, 4 of the last 6, including against the Blues.This is not a short-term, useless gain. It's meaningful if Watts Jurrah Bennell Jetta Grimes, Cheney, Morton have had a few wins under their belt and believe that they can take on good sides in 2010. Yes, we only get 1 decent draft pick--yes we miss Scully--but there would still be a considerable upside.

Its more meaningful that all those players have an elite teammate like Scully to assist them. The upside is considerably reduced and the opportunity wasted.

There are four more games that are at risk because of the present poor form of the opposition...Swans, Richmond, North and Freo. If Sandilands and Pac play there are some clues how we beat Freo?

Richmond would the last 7 out of 9 in 2008 and did that give them anymore belief? It didn't and the 2010 season can be planned and implemented regardless of the outcomes of 2009. Given how young the side will be next year its likely to be challenging again to competitive throughout the season

As to the financial situation, I can only say that you have no idea how bad it has been and how difficult it may be to get directors of a club which is arguably trading whilst insolvent. It remains a HUGE issue. And a move to Launceston would not change the number of teams--the Tassie Demons would simply take the place of our Demons and with a government guarantee. I acknowledge that the figures would be different if we went to G.C or West Sydney

If the issue is insolvency then the MFC would have folded in the 1980's. The AFL own the licence that is the MFC and is the ultimate guarantor of the debts. MFC is not trading insolvently. I dont deny the issue. But once again you have the core facts wrong and droawing inccorrrect conclusions. The AFL have already said that Tassie is the 19th team (whatever that means). They are at least 5 years away from consideration for the AFL in any form. By that time MFC should be heading up the ladder even more so with Scully.

[donny williams no 25 0]

You haven't got a clue what Stynes is actually thinking. He, Schwab and Connolly are far shrewder person than you would realise. From the MFC perspective, its the same position and the same outcome if we win 5 games...in fact its worse. That is all that counts

Its more meaningful that all those players have an elite teammate like Scully to assist them. The upside is considerably reduced and the opportunity wasted.

There are four more games that are at risk because of the present poor form of the opposition...Swans, Richmond, North and Freo. If Sandilands and Pac play there are some clues how we beat Freo?

Richmond would the last 7 out of 9 in 2008 and did that give them anymore belief? It didn't and the 2010 season can be planned and implemented regardless of the outcomes of 2009. Given how young the side will be next year its likely to be challenging again to competitive throughout the season

If the issue is insolvency then the MFC would have folded in the 1980's. The AFL own the licence that is the MFC and is the ultimate guarantor of the debts. MFC is not trading insolvently. I dont deny the issue. But once again you have the core facts wrong and droawing inccorrrect conclusions. The AFL have already said that Tassie is the 19th team (whatever that means). They are at least 5 years away from consideration for the AFL in any form. By that time MFC should be heading up the ladder even more so with Scully.

Well, I'm not talking about tanking anymore but I will respond to the Richmond thing.

In my view Wallace and the Richmond board should be shot for the arrogance with which they approached 2009. If we win a number of games but our leaders can't imbue a different attitude into our players then I'm Rhino Richards. Incidentally we did beat Freo with Sandilands and Pavlich playing last year tho Jamar was a key to that win and he might be missing I gather.

Anyway, good luck to you and all tankers-- see you in 2010 when our young team will approach the season with more optimism than you miserable lot because of their success at the end of 2009!

[beelzebub 23,313]

Anyway, good luck to you and all tankers-- see you in 2010 when our young team will approach the season with more optimism than you miserable lot because of their success at the end of 2009!

Mate, hate to say it but you must be patently missing the point. Its the very result of having gained the pick de la picks of the 2009 draft that will ALLOW reinvigoured optimisms regarding season 2010. With such inclusions as maybe Scully, Trengove etc together with the likes of a fully preseasoned Jurrah along with focussed Watts teh Dees will have the material with with to build a real team. Players like Meesen rejuvenated, Grimes rested and strengthened, Garland all fixed up etc give real credibility.

Hardly reason to be miserable

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Well, I'm not talking about tanking anymore but I will respond to the Richmond thing.

Yes you are.

In my view Wallace and the Richmond board should be shot for the arrogance with which they approached 2009. If we win a number of games but our leaders can't imbue a different attitude into our players then I'm Rhino Richards. Incidentally we did beat Freo with Sandilands and Pavlich playing last year tho Jamar was a key to that win and he might be missing I gather.

Arrogance was not the major problem at Richmond. Incompetence from the coaching through to the recruiting and list management. See where poor list management gets you Donny!! Pavlich played a blinder against us but there were 20 other squibs playing for them that day. Many of those have gone but there list is young. BTW, you could do well being Rhino Richards but its a big leap for you.

Anyway, good luck to you and all tankers-- see you in 2010 when our young team will approach the season with more optimism than you miserable lot because of their success at the end of 2009!

The way you have gone recently Donny I would give you 2 PPs in the first round and a PP in the 2nd round just to make your arguments near competitive in the future. Merry Christmas anyway.

[Hyphen 8]

The irony (and the futility) of this debate is that it presumes that should we tank - which is to say, we play the kids, wrap the old hands in cotton wool and experiment with our match-day structures - we will be less likely to win games, and more likely to secure the hallowed PP.

I suspect it's a false premise.

Is playing Bennell instead of Whelan tanking? Arguably the reverse is true. Newton for Robbo (God forbid)? Johnson for Jamar? McLean is playing like he needs a rest, and McKenzie that he deserves promotion. You could even argue that a fit Wheatley contributes as much as a developing Grimes.

We are poor side, improving slowly, boasting a handful of players with considerable potential. The point is, I'm not sure we can reasonably expect to control our fate.

(Which is not say I'm not praying for half a dozen more narrow losses...)

[Roost It 1,434]

Anyway, good luck to you and all tankers-- see you in 2010 when our young team will approach the season with more optimism than you miserable lot because of their success at the end of 2009!

I'm pretty sure that only winning 4 games by whatever means available will have several very beneficial effects on this club way over and above what winning 5,6 or 7 games would.

1. The obvious one. Tom Scully becomes a Demon.

2. We also get picks 2 or 3.

3. Pick 1 or 2 in the preseason draft.

4. Remember the excitement of recruiting Jack Watts? Well 2 top 3 picks will double that excitement.

5. We have suffered for 3 years, the position of our club is exactly why PP were added to the draft, Why miss out what is due to us?

6. The short, medium and long term financial gains players such as Scully could bring to this club would make it negligent not to take up the "offer"

7. The excitement of football fans in general when watching the competitions elite play the game. We need more marquee players. Just look at what Jack Watts has already done for this club without even playing a standout game. He added 5 - 10,000 people and may well have saved the QB fixture for the club.

Donny, give me one positive outcome of this club winning more than 4 games.

[stueyspencer no12 73]

Yes you are.

Arrogance was not the major problem at Richmond. Incompetence from the coaching through to the recruiting and list management. See where poor list management gets you Donny!! Pavlich played a blinder against us but there were 20 other squibs playing for them that day. Many of those have gone but there list is young. BTW, you could do well being Rhino Richards but its a big leap for you.

The way you have gone recently Donny I would give you 2 PPs in the first round and a PP in the 2nd round just to make your arguments near competitive in the future. Merry Christmas anyway.

goodonya Rhino! You're a bit like the bloke you're named after--could run well but lacked sublety and didn't appear to have a brain in his head! Looked as thick as a brick though appearances can be[not in all cases] misleading.

You couldn't be more wrong about the financial situation which is about to rear its ugly head again I'm afraid

I'm with Donny--I don't see how we can tank effectively.

I hear tonight that Wallace says that he did it in 2007? to get Cotchin. Did the Tiges a power of good didn't it? They haven't looked back since and Wallace has been elevated to another pedestal altogether

[rpfc 28,257]

donny williams no 25

I know you have stopped posting about this so just read:

We have been 'tanking' since halfway through 2007, and went into overdrive in Rd 1 2008 - when we played two then-to-fore written off duds.

Garland and Weetra. Weetra is playing suburban footy (I believe). And Garland gives YM wet dreams.

And Garland was brought to you by the good people at List Management Inc.

Their corporate motto - "Been playing kids ahead of more seasoned professionals since 2007"

I called their HQ to get the skinny on what they've been doing at the Junction:

"The Melbourne job? Yeah, that one has been long commit. Started around July 2007 and they told us to really strip the place in 08. And I mean strip - we were throwing out fixtures that could still do a better job than the newer stuff but they just said - 'we're looking ahead a few years when the newer stuff will look bloody good.' And that's understandable. The job will be finished around November this year when we get the last deliveries in. Some effing good stuff too. No worries, mate.

Next? Uh, we're off to Sydney next year but the range next year doesn't look that great. They're in some strife those cockroaches! See ya, mate."

Really nice fella that one.

His pick of the new fixtures, and he's biased we know, is the new Frawley installation in the place of the old Carroll model. But likes the look of the Wonaeamirri for Yze upgrade out the front, and the recent Grimes for Whelan upgrade out the back.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

You couldn't be more wrong about the financial situation which is about to rear its ugly head again I'm afraid

I dont think so and you have just argued my point. Well done.

I'm with Donny--I don't see how we can tank effectively.

That's not a good profile at all.

I hear tonight that Wallace says that he did it in 2007? to get Cotchin. Did the Tiges a power of good didn't it? They haven't looked back since and Wallace has been elevated to another pedestal altogether

Cotchin has been a success and is probably in the top two at Richmond. He's a gun and he is only 19/20. Wallace failed for other reasons besides Cotchin. Not that you would realise. Back under your stone now

[Sir Why You Little 36,963]

You couldn't be more wrong about the financial situation which is about to rear its ugly head again I'm afraid

r

So what new news do you know about the financial situation? Ime all ears.

Persoally i would love to sit down with scwabb & find out the Real details of this club. I can only beleive what i see & that is we are a hell of a lot better off than 12 months ago, with still a long way to go.

If we can score the Top Draft Picks this year, with a full pre season I am Hoping for a push toward the Top 8 next year.

That will only happen with new injection of young talent in the midfield.

Short Term Pain for long Term Gain. I don't like the idea of losing games, but i will endure that sick feeling if it means we start Pumping next year.

I bet the Saint Supporters are not bothered by there 2000-01 form right now.

No Pain No Gain.

[Adam The God 30,123]

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

Mind-boggling. Absolutely, mind-boggling.

[Whispering_Jack 29,770]

Mind-boggling. Absolutely, mind-boggling.

Interesting article in today's paper about Dean Bailey's views on tanking.

The last paragraph says Jack Grimes is in doubt because of concerns with his back.

Oh dear!

[H_T 3,043]

Let me assure you of this; if the scenario developed and Melbourne had the opportunity to put the Blues out of the finals 90% of supporters and ALL players officials, coaches and presidents would want us to do everything in our power--pick the best available team and give it our absolute best shot--to do so.

Not if we were on 4 wins at that time. Maybe 90% of supporters of the AFL. Certainly not many at Melbournefc.

And if we succeeded, the improved profile of the club would help immensely next year.

There would be more reason for the club imploding than an improved profile of the club I can assure you.

[Norm Smith 0]

My first post ever - why? Because I think the PP issue is vitally important.

I believe, as many of you have intelligently stated, that any club serious about competing for a flag in the current system of PP's has to use the remaining dead rubbers as smartly as they can - ie. play the kids, give players experience playing new positions etc.

Wallace, Matthews go public recently ... everyone's known it for years St Kilda, Hawthorn, Richmond, Carlton etc. have all taken serious decisions to ensure PP's.

Of course the whole PP system is not ideal, but if you let other teams outsmart you, you are just being ignorant, misguidedly 'honourable' or shying away from the real competition.

Most smart football people call draft day the 2nd most important day of the year.

This competition has never been pretty. It's a tough game, that's one reason we love it. And often the toughest and shrewdest are the most revered.

Half the time a player gives away a free kick he is bending/ breaking the rules.

It's an imperfect world. Footy reflects that. It's a game, like poker, like chess, like life.

Sometimes the best tactic is to lose a battle to win a war.

What brings us together online and at games is the common interest in winning a flag.

I applaud all the honorable Demons fans who want to win every game, a fine attitude in itself; but would suggest that if the club don't make smart decisions about the Swans game and the next few weeks, then MFC will keep on losing the war.

Until they become the GC Demons!

LET'S TRY TO GET SOME GENUINE CHAMPIONS AT DEMONLAND!

[rpfc 28,257]

LET'S TRY TO GET SOME GENUINE CHAMPIONS AT DEMONLAND!

Well said.

And to the rest of Demonland - How come it took 5 162 members for there to be a 'Norm Smith'?

I mean, we are a bunch of idiots!

He's our greatest ever coach and it took over 5000 members?!

[Guest JACKtheRIPPER]

My first post ever - why? Because I think the PP issue is vitally important.

I believe, as many of you have intelligently stated, that any club serious about competing for a flag in the current system of PP's has to use the remaining dead rubbers as smartly as they can - ie. play the kids, give players experience playing new positions etc.

Wallace, Matthews go public recently ... everyone's known it for years St Kilda, Hawthorn, Richmond, Carlton etc. have all taken serious decisions to ensure PP's.

Of course the whole PP system is not ideal, but if you let other teams outsmart you, you are just being ignorant, misguidedly 'honourable' or shying away from the real competition.

Most smart football people call draft day the 2nd most important day of the year.

This competition has never been pretty. It's a tough game, that's one reason we love it. And often the toughest and shrewdest are the most revered.

Half the time a player gives away a free kick he is bending/ breaking the rules.

It's an imperfect world. Footy reflects that. It's a game, like poker, like chess, like life.

Sometimes the best tactic is to lose a battle to win a war.

What brings us together online and at games is the common interest in winning a flag.

I applaud all the honorable Demons fans who want to win every game, a fine attitude in itself; but would suggest that if the club don't make smart decisions about the Swans game and the next few weeks, then MFC will keep on losing the war.

Until they become the GC Demons!

LET'S TRY TO GET SOME GENUINE CHAMPIONS AT DEMONLAND!

gc demons, as MR T would say show some nuts, hope your a member rookie.

[beelzebub 23,313]

My first post ever - why? Because I think the PP issue is vitally important.

.....................

LET'S TRY TO GET SOME GENUINE CHAMPIONS AT DEMONLAND!

welcome to Demonland there Smithy..

and not just because you a share kindred outlook

Youre quite right its a dirty business at times and as such mucky decisions are required to stay relevant and a competitive force.

[H_T 3,043]

Well said.

And to the rest of Demonland - How come it took 5 162 members for there to be a 'Norm Smith'?

I mean, we are a bunch of idiots!

He's our greatest ever coach and it took over 5000 members?!

Well Observed.

Do we have a Ron Barassi?

[Einstein 1]

Well said.

And to the rest of Demonland - How come it took 5 162 members for there to be a 'Norm Smith'?

I mean, we are a bunch of idiots!

He's our greatest ever coach and it took over 5000 members?!

I think it's a bit like logging onto a Christian web forum as 'Jesus Christ'. But hey, that's just me.

[donny williams no 25 0]

donny williams no 25

I know you have stopped posting about this so just read:

We have been 'tanking' since halfway through 2007, and went into overdrive in Rd 1 2008 - when we played two then-to-fore written off duds.

Garland and Weetra. Weetra is playing suburban footy (I believe). And Garland gives YM wet dreams.

And Garland was brought to you by the good people at List Management Inc.

Their corporate motto - "Been playing kids ahead of more seasoned professionals since 2007"

I called their HQ to get the skinny on what they've been doing at the Junction:

"The Melbourne job? Yeah, that one has been long commit. Started around July 2007 and they told us to really strip the place in 08. And I mean strip - we were throwing out fixtures that could still do a better job than the newer stuff but they just said - 'we're looking ahead a few years when the newer stuff will look bloody good.' And that's understandable. The job will be finished around November this year when we get the last deliveries in. Some effing good stuff too. No worries, mate.

Next? Uh, we're off to Sydney next year but the range next year doesn't look that great. They're in some strife those cockroaches! See ya, mate."

Really nice fella that one.

His pick of the new fixtures, and he's biased we know, is the new Frawley installation in the place of the old Carroll model. But likes the look of the Wonaeamirri for Yze upgrade out the front, and the recent Grimes for Whelan upgrade out the back.

Although I'm not reading this stuff any more let me say--I like it!

[e25 5]

I think it's a bit like logging onto a Christian web forum as 'Jesus Christ'. But hey, that's just me.