Jeff White - Jim Stynes

[H_T 3,032]

How do you rate these two ruckmen for Melbourne? They have rucked for the Dees in the past two decades. One followed the other, hell they even rucked together back in '98! Have we been lucky? And is it time for the club to select another 10 year ruckman to take the reins through the 2008 National Draft?

[H_T 3,032]

How do you rate these two ruckmen for Melbourne? They have rucked for the Dees in the past two decades. One followed the other, hell they even rucked together back in '98! Have we been lucky? And is it time for the club to select another 10 year ruckman to take the reins through the 2008 National Draft?

Who is the better ruckman in their time?

[Pates 9,625]

That would surely have to be one of the best consecutive ruckmen at one club, one won a Brownlow, the other has been one of the most dominant ruckman in the last 8-10 years. We've truly been spoiled in his area!

[Pates 9,625]

Who is the better ruckman in their time?

Up against each other in their prime i would have Stynes a whisker ahead, but a very tough choice!

[tooly 0]

That would surely have to be one of the best consecutive ruckmen at one club, one won a Brownlow, the other has been one of the most dominant ruckman in the last 8-10 years. We've truly been spoiled in his area!

Stynes!

[deanox 9,670]

pre centre circle, or post centre circle?

[45HG 1,539]

White pre-circle restrictions versus an in-form Stynes would have been fascinating

[deanox 9,670]

White pre-circle restrictions versus an in-form Stynes would have been fascinating

yep. post circle, stynes would be my pick. right now, stynes would smash him around the ground.

i dont think white would work hard enough defensively around the ground on stynes (maybe im being harsh, and not remembering his best work), but white has tended to drift into space, block a hole in the backline, rather than check his opposite number, which could make white pay in this case...

but pre circle, whites leap would mean he would be dominating the center...

[Chook 14,998]

White pre-circle restrictions versus an in-form Stynes would have been fascinating

Sorry, but could somebody explain what the rules of the circle thing were, what it was for and why it totally neutered Whitey? Thanks in advance.

[Doggo 32]

I'll take Stynes any day over White.

I loved watching both players over the years, and don't want to sell White short, but Jimmy at his best IMO was clearly better than White's best, and he came from a hell of a long way further back to do it.

One thing many people forget was that Jeff White was a #1 draft pick way back (95 draft i think?) for Fremantle. He was always very highly rated as a junior and was seen as a perfect combination of athletic freak and footballer. White was ear-marked to become a champion very early in his career, and given the expectations of what we all thought he could/would become, he has probably fallen short of the par mark. Just 1 B&F in '04 & Runner-Up in '02, 1 All-Australian selection in '04 and only, IMO, 4 elite years from a 10-season career ('00, '02, '04 and maybe '06). I don't want to sell Whitey short though, because he's been an amazing servant for the club since he came over in 98 from Freo, and was once one of my favorite players. He has carried our ruck division for a whole decade, and i'd be willing to bet he's the only guy in the AFL since Stynes to have done that.

On the other hand, Stynes was some Irish smokey John Northey took a punt on. He had never played a game of aussie rules footy before he came to Australia and he developed into one of the premier players in the league in his prime. He revolutionised what we know as the modern ruckman- there was more to rucking than being big and winning the taps.

He won a Brownlow Medal and a few B&F's (4 maybe?), a few AA's, and holds the record for most consecutive games in the league! And all this after coming back from the infamous running-thru-the-mark incident that could potentially have killed his confidence as a youngster in a foreign country that was new to the game. That's a remarkable story in itself.

And he's now the president of our great club!

Loved them both, and agree we have been very lucky in that we were able to have a quality replacement for Stynes pretty much from day one.

Would love to see R.Warnock inherit White's #34 should White call it a day come seasons end and Warnock is recruited. I think it would be a great honour for Robbie to get White's jumper, given the career White has been able to have since crossing over from Freo in very similar circumstances. And it's a nice touch little touch too that PJ in the #11 is the same kind of 'tall-follower/ruck rover' that Stynes was in his day.

It would be like a full-circle and another cycle complete.

[45HG 1,539]

Now you have to start you runup from inside the bigger circle.

You know how there's the center circle and that bigger circle around it?

From memory it came in to counteract ruckman taking massive runups and bashing their knees into each other, as quite a few ruckmen went down with ACL's due to ruck collisions.

It hurt White because his spring was no longer as important in winning a center bounce as he was unable to generate enough speed to leap over another ruckman.

He's been good since, but not as good

[Doggo 32]

Sorry, but could somebody explain what the rules of the circle thing were, what it was for and why it totally neutered Whitey? Thanks in advance.

The centre circle rule introduced at the end of 2005(?), meant that ruckman could no longer take the long run-up, leap, then cannon into each other the way they did when White was in his prime. Basically, White being shorter and relying on his leap to win centre taps, was neutralised by the rule.

[Pates 9,625]

I see where you're coming from, and as a no. 1 draft pick he hasn't quite fully lived up to his reputation his position suggested. But as a servent of our club and as the no. 1 ruckman for just under 10 years i'd say he's given everything he's got, and IMO that center circle rule cut off about 2 years of potential dominance for him right in his prime. I agree with you that i'd have Jimmy ahead of him but there are few ruckman in the AFL who for 10 years would've been considered consistently in the top 5 in the league.

[Dee man 302]

I looked at the title as a maths equation.

(Jeff White) - (Jim Stynes) = (Mark Jamar)

Stynes for mine, although both have been extremely valuable and are great servants of the club. We truly are privledged to have this duo.

[45HG 1,539]

I looked at the title as a maths equation.

(Jeff White) - (Jim Stynes) = (Mark Jamar)

Wow, so you have Jamar as a negative?

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Both great, great players. Unfortunately I'm a little too young (22) to remember Stynes' entire career, but from what I did see, he was brilliant. I have to say that in my opinion, he is under-rated among the modern-day legends. His name isn't mentioned nearly as often as it should be. He was a leader and trail-blazer, and not only with the Irish connection. As has been mentioned, he approached being a ruckman in a different light, and modern-day players like Cox and dare I say it even White play in a way that Jimmy helped revolutionise in contemporary Aussie Rules.

With Jeffrey, I am fortunate enough to have been able to see most of his senior career, and fondly remember his past half-a-dozen season when he became my equal favourite player (and this season, probably my favourite. I can hear you all already. I think I'm a sucker for the veterans, just love 'em.) with Brucey. Objectively he probably hasn't had the impact that Stynes had, but obviously there are other factors involved there, but all in all White is a champion for my money, don't care what the concensus is!

[H_T 3,032]

Sorry, but could somebody explain what the rules of the circle thing were, what it was for and why it totally neutered Whitey? Thanks in advance.

It came in to prevent or reduce the risk of collisions resulting in knee reconstructions.. This effected White's leap, and he had to adjust accordingly, and became more strategic with the help of Sam Newman. It was Adrian Anderson's little assignment, and has now become folklore, changed the game forever....

[H_T 3,032]

I consider Jimmy Stynes the better ruckman. 1 Grand Final, 4 Best & Fairests, 1 Brownlow. Jeff White 1 Grand Final.

[H_T 3,032]

Quick quiz. What number did Stynes wear before he made the No.11 famous?

[Demon4Life 601]

They only played together for one year? That surprises me, because I have such fond memories of those two working together. Best ruck combo I have seen. Unbeatable.

[H_T 3,032]

They only played together for one year? That surprises me, because I have such fond memories of those two working together. Best ruck combo I have seen. Unbeatable.

White debuted in 1995, playing 32 games for Fremantle. So that may have been 95-96. Actually they may have played 2 years together, 1997-98. You could be right? Someone will tell us anyway?

Can someone tell us if they played 2 years together or one?

[Pates 9,625]

I consider Jimmy Stynes the better ruckman. 1 Grand Final, 4 Best & Fairests, 1 Brownlow. Jeff White 1 Grand Final.

Not to nitpick or anything, but Big Jimmy didn't play a grand final. He would've played one had he not crossed the mark in that Hawthorn prelim (a heartbreaking thing to even think about). He's still ahead though!

[warren dean 193]

Not to nitpick or anything, but Big Jimmy didn't play a grand final. He would've played one had he not crossed the mark in that Hawthorn prelim (a heartbreaking thing to even think about). He's still ahead though!

Yeah he did. He was our best player in the 88 debacle. They only played the one year together (98) and Whitey finished fourth in the B&F. For what it's worth, i reckon the best genuine ruck we have had in the last 20 years was Strawbs O'Dwyer. He was sensational in 87 and 88. Won the B&F the year we made the Granny, played for the Big V and unfortunately got rubbed out in the Prelim in 88. Bad knees got him within a couple of years. Out of Stynes and White, I'd take Jimmy.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Stynes, but only just, and only on stats...

Do love White and think he's very under-rated by the media and the greater-football public.

[Hannabal 4]

Stynes by a fair margin.