Our Ruckmen

[Doggo 32]

Whilst Jeff may well still be our best prospect in the ruck this does not mean we should be playing him - after all the season is shot anyway.

The notion that by keeping Jeff on he is somehow going to impart his rucking wisdom by taking all the bounces seems a little off to me. If we want Jeff to pass on his knowledge then we should employ him in a coaching role (not that I'm actually advocating this because I have no idea if he'd be any good anyway). In the meantime I would prefer it if the other rucks enjoyed the instruction of another teacher, experience.

All credit to Jeff for his great contribution to the club over the years but he will not play in a Grand Final and keeping him on the list is not doing the team any favours in the long run.

Jamar may not be great but he's what we've got. More time in the center can only improve, if not his skills, at least his trade value.

Good post. Agree completely.

[Damo 2,988]

We must indeed be watching different games then.

.....

Great post.

Jeff comes alive when we have the ball on a flank or wing, screaming for an easy possession behind the ball.

He doesnt man up or cover ground enough when we dont have it.

He doesnt win on the boundary throw ins any more which he had been good/excellent at.

If you compare Warnock, Warnock is prepared to go for a pack mark. Jeff doesnt do this any more at all, at all.

He has lost his endevour and as Hazy says we should thank him and hand him his hat.

Getting games into PJ and the Russian is more important than paying homage to an old champ.

I recall watching Peter Moore running laps when we had Big Red and an irrepressible Irishman putting it on the line to get games in 1987.

Although those big men were better than the above, one was a pure ruckman and one was a big RuckRover.

John Northey had no qualms about putting games into the new and letting the old dual brownlow winner go out without a game.

Admittedly Moore was playing out his contract by then and said he was injured but I dont believe he still had the fire.

Same as Jeff White.

[mo64 5,209]

Jeff White's stats in the past 2 seasons have flattered to deceive. His impact in the ruck and around the ground has been limited. Having said that, his 2 lieutenants aren't going to be our saviours.

Unlike some, I can't see Paul Johnson being a key position forward. Sure he's agile and can take a mark on the lead, but a player of 185cm (Sylvia) can fill the same role. He can't take a pack mark, and hasn't shown the capability to bust open packs for our crumbing forwards. As a ruckman, Johnson has shown little to get excited about.

Jamar on the other hand, does show potential as a ruckman, but does little around the ground. If Meesen doesn't come up to scratch, Jamar may well be worth a place on our list.

The time has come for Jamar and PJ to be used in the ruck, as this will determine whether we take Naita with the no. 1 pick.

[Melbourne_777 0]

Could this big man be our new #1 ruckman? He played really well on the weekend.

[Vipercrunch 2,804]

He did play quite well and got plenty of kudos from the commentators. He stood out playing across half forward with his mobility and willingness to work really hard. He is definetely showing a lot of promise away from the ruck and hopefully stays uninjured for the rest of the season so we get to see if he can do it consistently.

[H_T 2,941]

He did play quite well and got plenty of kudos from the commentators. He stood out playing across half forward with his mobility and willingness to work really hard. He is definetely showing a lot of promise away from the ruck and hopefully stays uninjured for the rest of the season so we get to see if he can do it consistently.

I am happy with PJ aka High Tower! My name sake.... Time to trade Jamar or White (if he still has value) I think (I could be wrong - no doubt some people will shoot me down). Tell you what PJ has got a lot of pace for his size too. Is mobile.

[H_T 2,941]

White may go up for trade with another Melbourne player to extract other early picks for the draft. PJ up forward, Jamar and Meesen to play next year , with perhaps the exciting addition of Natanui.

2010 will be an exciting year.

[Melbourne_777 0]

Yes he is a tall unit (Tower) and I think he just keeps getting better and better. As much as White is a great veteran of the Melbourne Football Club it's time to retire. Jamar is too inconsistent.

[H_T 2,941]

Yes he is a tall unit (Tower) and I think he just keeps getting better and better. As much as White is a great veteran of the Melbourne Football Club it's time to retire. Jamar is too inconsistent.

Yes, but maybe White might have something to offer Sydney if Everitt retires? We could get something for him. We must get rid of White or Jamar but not both at the same time. Getting rid of White will enable the Demons to have more coin anyway. He is not going to be there for the next premiership put it that way.

[Doggo 32]

Could this big man be our new #1 ruckman? He played really well on the weekend.

He did play really well on the weekend, but not in the ruck at all. Seems a strange question.

FWIW, yes, i think he could play as an equal #1 ruckman. Not in the true #1-ruckman role that Jeff White has played, but in a 50/50 tandem partnership (like Taylor/Campbell at Hawthorn) with another ruckman, be it Jamar, Warnock, Naitanui or Meesen. It all depends on whether one of Jamar and White leaves at the end of the year, or DB's possible intentions to use PJ as a permanent forward target. I don't believe having a #1 ruckman is really the way to go these days. More and more clubs are using two capable ruckman in tandem, rather than one specialist and one relief ruckman, and the over-reliance on having your gun #1 ruckman is, or at least should be, a thing of the past. It's an unhealthy dependance that often hurts clubs, as it's hurt us in the past, should the #1 ruckman go down.

[H_T 2,941]

He did play really well on the weekend, but not in the ruck at all. Seems a strange question.

FWIW, yes, i think he could play as an equal #1 ruckman. Not in the true #1-ruckman role that Jeff White has played, but in a 50/50 tandem partnership (like Taylor/Campbell at Hawthorn) with another ruckman, be it Jamar, Warnock, Naitanui or Meesen. It all depends on whether one of Jamar and White leaves at the end of the year, or DB's possible intentions to use PJ as a permanent forward target. I don't believe having a #1 ruckman is really the way to go these days. More and more clubs are using two capable ruckman in tandem, rather than one specialist and one relief ruckman, and the over-reliance on having your gun #1 ruckman is, or at least should be, a thing of the past. It's an unhealthy dependance that often hurts clubs, as its hurt us in the past, should the #1 ruckman go down.

Agree. When Jeff had trouble with his shins.....we were in limbo! You need 2 capable ruckman...and a backup as well as a young developing ruckman to take the reins in 2-3 years time.

Next year: Johnson - Jamar, Warnock, Meesen.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Edited for the sake of brevity...

Excellent post. A couple of points - yeah you're right, I have only been to two matches this season in the flesh, obviously it's a bit difficult being 800ks away but you're correct, a true analysis of a player is difficuly if not impossible from the TV. Also, I didn't say he'd been 'quite good' in most games, only a few (two or three), but anyway that's probably beside the point.

On your points on Paul Johnson, well his skill level is obviously not as awful as I thought it was after seeing him impart some confidence into himself and his ability to use his skills recently. Prior to the last few weeks he seemed so unsure whether he'd be able to hit his target, he rarely kicked, and when he did it often missed the target - presumably from a lack of confidence and belief. It's good to see him back himself. Still, his right foot is abysmal. I like the idea of leaving him in the forward 50 for the rest of the season, or the next 4-5 at least, to see how he goes. He showed more in one match against Sydney than he has for the past two years.

Back to White, your points about his strength are valid, and I certainly agree that he is brushed aside far too easily in physical, one-on-one wrestling, which most often occurs at boundary throw-ins. Jolly man-handled him several times on Sunday, and I was thinking 'Whitey, what's going on, he's no bigger than you'.

I guess I would like to see White and Johnson play the rest of the season, and probably Jamar as well. Jamar as second ruck, and Johnson as a forward, who only rucks from throw-ins in the attacking 50. Then we re-assess after round 22. That comment that White would like to go to Qld with his family; I guess it's a pity for him (and us potentially) that the Gold Coast side weren't coming in next year, otherwise he'd go and we could've got a pick for him.

[The Emblem 1]

It's an unhealthy dependance that often hurts clubs, as its hurt us in the past, should the #1 ruckman go down.

Good point Doggo, in better years of past I've heard that opposition clubs were basically just waiting for Jeff White to run out of steam as the season drew to a close...it seemed to work for them!

PJ in tandem with say a Warnock [should we be able to pick him up] would mean two ruckman who can at least make a contest. Spencer looks promising but is very young and needs time to develop and can do so next year whilst Jamar runs out his contract [unless he is traded away in the interim]. This also buys time to see of Meesen can build up his game, plus there is Martin who is more a KP but can pinch hit in the ruck quite respectably if needed.

[Adelaide Demon 0]

Johnson looks like he could have value as a non-key-position forward. As a ruck, not so much. Give him a run up forward and see how he goes.

[H_T 2,941]

JEFF WHITE has to be traded, Sydney will take him. Paul Johnson is starting to come into his own now.

[Doggo 32]

Prior to the last few weeks he seemed so unsure whether he'd be able to hit his target, he rarely kicked, and when he did it often missed the target - presumably from a lack of confidence and belief. It's good to see him back himself. Still, his right foot is abysmal.

And its still probably better than Jamar's left (prefered) foot!

[beelzebub 22,225]

White isnt going anywhere other than into retirement. He's odds on to re-evaulate at seasons end and depending on our drafting. White is no answer going forward and he'll know that as much as anyone. He's not stupid and he's of the same type of thinking as Neeta.. he'llbe talked to.

If we were to be lucky enough to say get Naita..and Warnock.. then along with kids like Spencer we have a stock of tallish timber.

PJ and Warnock sounds an inviting scenario

[H_T 2,941]

Steven King got picked up, White can offer something at 32.

[H_T 2,941]

I wonder how many kicks Jamar has had in his 50-odd game career?

[Melbourne_777 0]

Why is it a strange question Doggo? Seems to have gauged some interest, so can't be that strange.

[Doggo 32]

Why is it a strange question Doggo? Seems to have gauged some interest, so can't be that strange.

Just a strange question given that your suggestion that he could possibly be our new #1 ruckman was made based on his career-best game on the weekend, incidentally, where he played the majority of time in the forwardline.

Not a strange question, actually quite a good one. Just strange in the context of the sentence...

[beelzebub 22,225]

Some good points made here. yes to teh interested observer of thigs off the ball one does get teh feeling that Ol' Jeff has lost quite a bit of his nouse around the ground. I simply think his body isnt up to gettinghim into the positions he once did with regularity to be that one kick off the run etc. Sometimes I struggle to see where the hel he is. You only need to be half a sec behind the event to be ineffectual..and he's become that.

As others observe his stats flatter. Stats often flatter, so nothing new there, but we're talking of Jeff presently and hes sort of a 50/50 effect player..ne neither really detracts but he doesnt really add to the game. Purpose of being on the field in that light ??

If he's on the list next year he's just insurance

[H_T 2,941]

White has got to go to better pastures.

[H_T 2,941]

PJ reminds me alot of David Hille of Essendon.

[Melbourne_777 0]

Sorry Doggo just got a bit carried away in my thinking of what could become of PJ!!