deespicable me

Garland is pretty good one on one albeit he has got pinged a few times for wrapping arms around qpponents. On any one day he is generally never the worst of our back six and has had very good games when he only has to play his role. He suffers as many do, not just Melbourne defenders, when we are under the pump and losing because he generally just goes back to old habits of just stopping his player when perhaps the team needs someone to step up and attack off half back. I reckon Garland is a smart bloke and he has lived through such club horrors that the self preservation instinct kicks in and he sort of thinks that if he just takes care of his man he can't get overly criticized. I think Grimes sometimes plays that way when we are getting pumped. I would like to see him play with a bit more freedom if he gets the chance and we actually start winning more games than we lose, (a couple of big ifs). He deserves that. I hope he wants it for us and himself rather than the answer to the question in the change rooms when someone asks how do you go about playing better footy and it seems like they all say "go to another club". I think Suckling would be rubbish at Melbourne, under searing pressure his passing would go to crap. I would like to keep Garland and hope he would like to stay and the club and he can agree to terms. But I think that of most players. I hate free agency.

I don't think it's entirely the fault of individuals. As with Hawthorn when they lose a couple of players and a player comes in to the team as depth, they are told in no uncertain terms what to do, where to run, who to cover etc. They have a winning culture. When they are tested they dig in and fight back. There have been at least two examples of their resolve this year. The biggest disapointment on the weekend was the last quarter. This was when our losing culture shone brightly for all to see. We are showing signs of improvement in 3 of the last 8 quarters we have played, but our mistakes and lack of desire to hold on in the last quarter was shocking. This goes to the responsibility of the leaders and not the lesser players. Old habits aren't necessarily the fault of the individuals that people seem willing to highlight week in week out. In fact I would think that swap a Matt Jones into the Hawks line-up for a day and there would be no difference to their result. I saw two instances of this. One when Dunn was kicking out and the other when Watts turned it over in the last. Jones and McDonald in both instances were walking with their back to the play and crowding space. I've never seen the Hawks or any good team do that. If you're in range of the kicker you either make a lead or shepherd or get the $$$3## out of the way so someone can lead into the space you're clogging up. Jones was actually by himself but was tired and didn't even want the pill. Thats our leaders. Thats our culture. I'm not saying trade out Jones or Mc

I would have thought Ed himself would have pulled it. Surely he is embarrassed by that performance. Daicos was O.k and at least tried to be rational. left Melbourne alone and just talked about Collingwood. Tony Shaw should never see the inside of a commentary box again. He was boring, ranting, objectionable and by my count (I didn't really) thought the free kick count should have been 68 to 0. He was terrible Peter Hellier hadn't done any homework for the job and thought he might get by with his casual wit, and clearly didn't. Had one joke repeated 7 times about the "Straunie" pocket.

I actually think Brisbane probably should get a priority pick as I thought Melbourne should have in previous years. But let me indulge. There is Capitalism, or no restrictions for the rich, even concessions for the rich to prosper as they then filter the money down to the workers. There is socialism which is everyone should have access to a fair go. Even playing field. Then there is Equalism which is where a governing body actively interferes in order to raise up the less fortunate and restrict the powerful to somewhere in the middle. Again please bear with I am not trying to be condescending I just think for my argument it is important to establish three different styles of governing. It is worth noting that the equalisation fund is very close to what it intends to be. The AFL have identified using a formula the poorer clubs and those clubs receive more each year than the richer clubs. For example I think we get 9 million per year where Hawthorn or West Coast get ???, I'm not sure but not as much. That is equalism. But I have a feeling the rich clubs may have signed of on this equalisation funding model under the proviso of keeping the draft "pure". This is where I think the AFL need to recognise that if you actively engage as a governing body to equalise the competition on field you will get a much more interesting and robust competition. The consequence being all 18 sides can and will survive. So I'm actually all in favor of Brisbane getting a priority pick. But I'd go further. I don't think Hawthorn should get their first pick till around 30 or so. Their second may not come in till 60 or so. For me the way it should work is by key factors as in the equalisation fund. ie when was the last time the team played finals. When was the last time the team finished top four. How many years has the team been in the bottom four. etc Then break up the ladder into performance indicators ie bottom 4 (18 to 15), Bottom half (10 to 14) (5 to 9) and top 4, and from there give out a sliding scale of picks. So if Brisbane finsh bottom with 2 wins they might recieve picks 1 then pick 5 and maybe depending on other triggers a further pick before the top four teams get their first pick, say pick 17 or so. Melbourne by fact of their fantastic bottom 4 representation (go Dees) and lack of finals appearances over the last 10 years if they finish 15th with 6 wins might get as worked out by the formula picks 4 then a pick between the bottom half and the 5 to 9 group so a pick that might come in around the 13 mark. Carlton might get pick 2 then a further pick at the end of the first round before the top 4 and if they show little improvement in 2016 and finish bottom 2 they might get picks 2 and 5 etc. I know it sounds a bit complicated but thats because every extra pick you give out pushes everyone down the list but to give an example Brisbane 18th 2 wins, second year bottom 4, last played finals 2002 receive picks 1,5* 17* 31, 61 etc Melbourne 15th 6 wins, fifth year bottom 4, last played finals 2000 recieve picks 4, 13*, 18*, 35,65 etc St Kilda finish 11th 8 wins, haven't played finals since whenever recieve normal picks with an extra pick end of first round or maybe a second round pick straight after their pick in the second round. Geelong say they finish 10th, because of their recent successes obviously don't get any assistance and just take their place in the queue for draft picks Hawthorn blah,blah end up with picks after priorities have been given out approx pick 30, 60, 78 etc This I think distributes talent from the draft reasonably fairly for an equalised system. Hawthorn who have a superb culture and can turn stones into diamonds are challenged to work with their picks to get them up to their high standards. Also due to the extra picks given to the lower clubs and their desire to look for a mix of kids and experience, all of a sudden a player like Shoenmakers (25 man bun) who was a fair player would be more chance to be traded out to a lesser club rather than winning a premiership with Box Hill Hawks. Well I hope that makes sense. it's what I believe. Just like the "equalisation funding model" does fairly well for clubs off field fortunes, I think a similar system for the draft would work to equalise clubs fortunes on-field.

Bring back the priority pick. I believe the "Melbourne tanked" debacle and consequent angst towards us by all and sundry with the overall sentiment being "they don't deserve a priority pick" made it easy for the AFL and those with vested interests (the powerful clubs) to take it away. I was surprised and disappointed at the lack of support for one of the enjoyable idiosyncrasies of the draft that added a bit of spice for those supporters who had had to endure a poor year of performance on the field. One question that was rarely asked in the debate that conspired against Melbourne was did we actually deserve a priority pick. Clearly the answer was yes. I know people also said that teaching a footy club to lose games goes against the grain and creates a poor culture and I think Melbourne were definitely guilty of those sins. In fact Melbourne were pretty bad at everything they did. Maybe they still are. But even so the priority pick was never intended for such lowly purposes or to give incentive to poorly performing teams to perform even poorer. It was intended to even up the fortunes of the teams on the field in the coming seasons. To create a cycle that allows teams the opportunity to rise back up the ladder irrespective of whether they were a crap club that would blow the chance anyway. Eventually if they keep getting draft assistance they will rise. GWS are proof of that. Remember this is based on the correct presumption that if your team rises up the ladder you can achieve a much better off field result as well. Obviously it was abused and the criteria for receiving the priority pick needed reviewing but I think it was a mistake to scrap it, or indeed put it at the discretion of the AFL. What with umpiring and the MRP you can guarantee they'll get that wrong. Melbourne have been down the bottom for far too long. Its no good for anyone. The AFL isn't robust enough to sustain a club that performs as badly as we have over the past decade. If we remain in the bottom four next year we would have to consider folding. People suggested we got paid overs for Frawley leaving last year. I certainly don't. If the power clubs can take a KPS leading player from a bottom 4 club in his prime at about 25 and lose nothing themselves, the only restriction being to fit him in the salary cap then the bottom 4 club has been given a massive disadvantage. Massive. If Brisbane or Carlton go through a decade similar to our last decade the drain on the competition will be enormous. I think this way because I can't see us ever getting back on an even footing with the more powerful clubs. I don't believe we can get there without help. I know some people hate the idea of a welfare system but they better get used to the bottom 4.

The games against the Bombers and now the Saints were critical to this year. Its all very well to win a game you weren't meant to, or get a team on an off day but if we had any ticker as a club, any heart, any care, then these games against teams in similar positions to ourselves are the ones that show the supporters the club cares. These are the "line in the sand games". And we once again were rolled over like a weak gutted animal. A good club would wouldn't accept it. I want to see Bartlett, Jackson and Roos in front of us putting things straight. Telling us it won't happen again. Putting jobs, reputations and the club on notice. This isn't about game plans, succession plans or individual performance. This is about a club deciding wether its just a bunch of mercenaries checking their bank balance each week to make sure the moneys gone in or wether we are ever going to stand up and be something worthwhile.

I agree with these posts. I am extremely depressed with the state of the game not for the beauty of the spectacle but because there is no change. I used to enjoy seeing teams other than Melbourne rise and fall and the cyclical nature of success. I believed and still do believe in the restorative power of the priority pick. I used to believe that your chance of success in the AFL was indeed cyclical, you couldn't stay down too long before you'd bubble back up with a team filled with early draft talent. The biggest shift in the game in my opinion is political. The game used to have socialist roots. After the years of St Kilda and Fitzroy being lost down the bottom of the ladder the AFL introduced the draft and the priority pick system to help those that couldn't help themselves. Now I believe we are viewing a Capitalist system where the strong get stronger and the weak....... well its their own fault. Bad luck. I know everyone says Melbourne had its chance and blew it. I know people say its our own fault. It was and is. So how long do we stay down. How much longer? I have NO faith that we are on a level playing field, that if we work hard and get the right people in place we can become as powerful as any one of Collingwood, Hawthorn or Geelong. I think the power clubs have too much say and are actively making it impossible for teams like ourselves to ever rise up the ladder. Hawthorn have homes at Glenferrie, Waverley, Tasmania and now some multi million dollar facility at Dingley. Collingwood has a great set up and a huge power base and Geelong like the interstate clubs has its own stadium. Equalisation is a myth. People who think we should fight our way out of this are in my opinion mistaken because we can't compete given our circumstances. We are starting from a fair way back and we are only going backwards. I don't really care about the beauty of the game, I just want us to win something occassionally. Given the political shift the game has taken and a weak AFL administration I see this as virtually impossible.

In the first half for Casey Grimes played back and didn't go so well. He turned the ball over and although he is a good one on one backman he had no effect in running the ball out of defence. In the second half though he played on a wing and rotated a bit through the middle and was much more effective. His goal in the third quarter when Toumpas handballed to him as he ran to the 50 was one of the goals of the day, also Toumpas's best play and gave hope to those of us who would like to see those two stay at Melbourne and become good players in a good side. Most players are judged by their ability to attack and be involved in goal scoring and we forgive their lack of accountability to put on pressure when we don't have the ball. Jurrah a classic example (wow he was worth it though). A lot of posters would like to see Hunt given a go but in reality if he was playing at the Box Hill Hawks he wouldn't even be considered for this year and would be told to work on a variety of roles and certain skills would need to be ticked off before consideration for the seniors. This way when those players do get a go they can fit into the Hawks style of playing. Hunt is showing good signs but I would prefer he is developed properly for the rest of the year. I'm not sure if that includes a senior game, it may. Grimes though is the opposite of a Hunt. He is dour and defensive minded. He needs to work on his attacking play. On Saturday in the Casey side he showed progress. He should be considered for a wing/ HF/HB/mid rotation role. I certainly believe players can develop and to get rid of Grimes at the end of the year when he is great depth and still a chance to be a permanent part of our best 22 is short sighted by one or two posters. The importance of Casey being a good side should not be underestimated. You only had to see how poor the Blues were to appreciate we are definitely ahead of them in our development and there were 5 or 6 players playing for Casey who could walk straight into Melbournes senior side and perform well. The Blues looked very thin. Toumpas is playing in the midfield at Casey and is still uncomfortable in contested situations. He is working really hard and shows vision ala when he handpassed to Grimes in space for that goal. At some point he should get another stint at senior level as part of that development. The idea is that eventually he will stay there as part of our best 22

Oh poor Jobbey. Boo Hoo Only 4 and 8 half way through the season. You better hurry up and retire before they decide you can't play for 2 years.

For me next year and 2017 are the transition years. A more pertinent question might be if you had to choose would you prefer us to play finals in 2016 or 2017? The obvious answer for the long term health of the Melbourne Football Club is 2017 under Simon Goodwin. If it goes the other way ie we rise up the ladder next year under Roos, then fall back under Goodwin, it won't be pretty. So will Roos want to go out on a high or will he try to leave a lasting legacy. I think and hope its the latter, therefore my answer to the question is I hope we play finals in 2017.

Oh please Lance, I know we are not worthy of your pearls of such infinite wisdom, but of course when you are clear to divulge please do. We will wait here patiently for your scraps. Until then, yours in devotion , one of your disciples. Phht! Do you understand why people think your a bit of a dufus mate?

Well Watts and Toumpas are "starting to show something" aren't they? You are clearly a fan of instant pudding and two minute noodles.

Wow a lot of negativity before a game. I will wait till we lose. I must admit I'm not confident but this is a very important game for both clubs. It would be good to get bragging rights over the Saints. I'd love to see us win this game and finish above the Saints. I really want to see us beat up Essendon and then see Hird get the sack! If we finish above the Saints, Essendon and obviously Carlton that isn't a bad result. We've been the worst team out of Victoria for far too long. I think Stretch is ready to have a go again, I watched the second qtr of last weeks Casaey game and he was excellent, very classy. Go Dees

For me its not working. Beveridge looks to have an all-in attitude to his coaching already. Clarkson has that as well. They are both small men and they get buried deep within the huddles when it matters most. They care and connect with their players. Roos came to this club with an exit strategy. It wobbled early doors when no-one wanted to become his assistant then I think he sighed with relief when we locked in Goodwin and he could go back to planning 2017 onwards when he eventually gets his life back with a stash of cash to boot! Anyone suggesting he will hang round 1 second longer than he is contracted to has got rocks in their heads. I know I'm having a cheap shot and Roos is a man of integrity but all I'm hoping is when he eventually goes back to his media jobs he will push our barrow a bit because politically ( I've never seen the game more politically driven than it is now) we have very little relevance and no voice in the media to help us. As for Jack Watts and coaching and game tactics, I thought Roos handled Watts very poorly. I didn't even watch the Hawks game but against the Swans we were so short on tall running players, I don't know why he was in the green vest. Just give the guy a role. He could have played on any number of players, Rowan or Goodes. If he wants to contribute put him on a player and tell him to beat him. Keep it simple. Check the tape on Monday and teach him to beat an opponent. Really missed a coaching opportunity with Jack in the last couple of weeks in my stupid opinion. Anyway I agree with Jnrmac, all I can think is that everyone at Melbourne has an "exit strategy" except us supporters. Boo Hoo us!

With respect to cancer sufferers I can only imagine it must feel like they were given the O.k from the Doctors, have spent a few weeks in remission and were just starting to feel good about themselves when wham its come back. They must be gutted. Throughout the whole saga the players and even Hird (as much as I dislike him and want him away from the game forever) have shown such strength and solidarity. When the ASADA case was dismissed and they beat Hawthorn I felt as if the whole game was in an awful place, the bad guys had won and there was no justice. I think Bomber fans wanted the Hird/ Little combo mainly because they thought it would bring success. But now they are already losing and with this back over their heads its going to be a terrible place to be, and the Bomber fans will desert Hird and Little in droves. Its easier to ditch a losing combination, this is a disaster for Hird. He is GAWN!

Sure, I'll try Moonshadow. First I think its great that all bar long term injured were out there today. Roos had a fit team at the Swans when they were good and this is the 'most available' list I've ever seen at training (touch wood) Secondly I think the players not in the first 22 were the best trainers and seemed to me as if they had fairly clear directions on areas of their game they needed to work on. Pedo worked one on one with Brendan McCartney for a while below his knees then on a signal had to pick up and kick at goals off two steps. I like watching Goodwin take a small group. All his drills are to do with around the stoppages an area we need developement in and if we do hopefully improve in that area I'd put that down to Goodwin. All his work is about creating and then protecting space around stoppages and then quick movement out to runners. I've watched him with most of the mids at some stage. Some of the one on one battles are great. Nat Jones hates getting beaten. Goodwin had Neal-Bullen, Stretch, Tyson and Bail today just doing drills to grab the ball and present your bum to the contest and hold the ball so as to keep your hands free. Pretty simple stuff but still good to practice and re-inforce. Michie trained well but like Bail lacks "presence". I noticed him having shots at goal with Vince and Tyson from the boundary line and he was good. Max Gawn is struggling a bit with not being the main man and was shouting random instructions at anyone who would listen. Melbourne's ruck trio are interesting, they had a bit of training together with Frost, King and Fitzy joining in. As I said earlier Jamar was terrific, as good as I've seen him train, he's up against a great ruck this week in Mumford so hopefully he goes well, Spencer was good and strong he ragdolled Jamar once but Gawny wasn't switched on today, and he let it show. As I said earlier Grimes and Matt Jones trained really well, both had a great attitude and Grimes and Jordie stayed late doing kicking practice with each other. I'm a little confused with the half pace training of some of them. I have no experience how a good side trains during the week. I'm sure there is a good balance between saving it for the game and making sure there is no complacency. I expect Melbourne to win on the weekend and hope they come out firing.

I went today. I have been to a lot of pre-season sessions but none during the season as we get to see the team weekly during games when it matters and I must say there was a completely different feel to todays session as compared to pre-season. It was very low body contact which makes sense. They were happy to go half pace with a lot of drills. There was a sense of saving it for the main stage. Some good things to note: Alex Neal-Bullen joined in full training and without seeing him in a game where he will be judged by all and sundry he looked good, moved well has a good strong body and competed well in stoppage drills. All players were out there (I think) Obviously we are hoping for extra confidence in what they are doing and it seemed to be there today Hogan was playing around like a big kid in the forward 50 arc and there is no doubt a positive change in his body language since the games have started and he has played well. It must be a huge relief. He looks awesome. Kent looked good. No problem with concussion, he was one of the better trainers, at trainig I reckon his skill level is in the top group at the club and he may be just as good as Garlett in the mid to forward role. He kicked a beautiful goal with ease from outside fifty that just sailed through. They did specific group work backs, mids, forwards. All drills involved movement of the ball quickly. I watched the stoppages on the far side Jamar and Spencer looked good, Jamar especially, Bernie Vince looked ready to go. Tom McDonald looked good. He trained well. He ran and used the ball with confidence. Kicked and handballed well. All the backline group were running the ball out of defence well. Very few mistakes and lots of confidence. In the main full length drill which was about movement from one end to the other match simulation with an emphasis on hand ball, the guys that stood out were Grimes, Matt Jones and Bail. It is good to see them putting pressure on for spots. Grimes was very good. I know a few posters were happy for him to be out but I really hope he improves his game and grabs his second chance when it comes along. His training suggests he thinks he can get back and hold his spot. Bad things of note. They were half pace and a bit sloppy at times. Howe looked a bit sore. Jack Watts was very lethargic. And finally a little rant. Just down the road there were probably 500 plus supporters watching Collingwood. Must have been an organised event. Signage everywhere, coffee cart, face painting etc. The new pavillion they are building will be awesome with a deck overlooking the ground and right next door is their merchandise shop. Well done to them but our little ground has a truck come across the 300 odd metres from our offices with all the gear, there is a kid who has to roll out a 100 metre extension cord and set up (in the weather) a small camera to get footage of training, there is no toilets, no signage, nothing to suggest we are anything but using the ground temporarily, football nomads. Thank goodness for equalisation otherwise we might have to train on Punt Rd when the lights go red. The worst part about this token equalisation is that if any of Melbourne, Dogs or Saints happen to get up to the rarified air of the top reaches of the ladder you just watch Eddie carry on how we are only there out of his generosity!

I think the loss to Essendon has dampened a lot of peoples expectations and thats probably a good thing. We are now definitely flying under the radar. For me I wasn't so upset by the loss, Essendons seconds were going full tilt at us and we really should have won. We gave ourselves a lot of chances but really mucked up our F50 entries. JKH and Kent added to Garlett and a bit more practice and we can improve a lot on that effort. The new recruits add genuine depth to what admittedly was a weak list with Harry, Garlett, Vanders , Frost and Newton all bringing something better than what we had last year. The worst part of the Essendon loss was that I think we were beaten a lot in the stoppages again. Our midfield is still bottom four. Our ruck stocks aren't great either. We desperately need Bernie back in the team. If we can break even in the midfield we will win quite a few games and should get out of the bottom four but the midfield is the key and I think most Demonlanders will agree ours is still rated low.

I've thought for a while Vineys disposal isn't great so I'm glad its being highlighted so he can hopefully learn. Earlier in the night he was at the ball drop and Salem was in front of him and instead of giving a quick handball up to Salem he just took possession and it ended in a ball up. He needs to understand his role in the team as a bloke who gets it and feeds it to the classier uses of the ball. He needs to help us generate spread but at the moment he isn't quite doing it. I agree Jones who was good on Friday night has developed his disposal game well. Sam Mitchell who is not a great overhead mark or long kick is a similar build and hopefully role model for our Jack. By the by I thought Tysons game on Friday night was similarly not so team oriented but for different reasons. We are still gelling as a team. Hopefully we have a season where we improve these things and don't just lose our way and end up playing as a bunch of individuals.

Agreed cards 13, just thought the song appropriate

Have you heard Paul Kelly's song Little Kings, seems appropriate 'in the land of the little kings justice don't mean a thing, and everywhere the little kings are getting away with murder" Boy I hope they don't get away with it,....

I have a solution. Firstly relocate GWS to Tassie. Secondly with the money saved build a boutique stadium that only holds 15 to 20,000 and make sure you can run it at a profit. Then take all gate and TV money and equally distribute to clubs with caps on all spending. Maximise the gate returns and TV returns by putting on the biggest games at the best times and best venues. Scale the games ie Essendon v Collingwood tier 1 Richmond v Melbourne tier 2 Melbourne v GWS tier 3 This of course wouldn't be good for Melbourne Footy Club with maybe only 4 or 5 games at the G but bad luck, get better. get more competitive and get more members and you'll get better exposure. Meantime the lesser clubs like ourselves aren't a drain on the competition. By the way this plan has many flaws but I think it's worth noting in the overall debate.

deespicable me Dear chops 38 I just hope the big bugger is alright again, after having to deal with the trauma of playing for such a lowly club like us. Personally when we play the Cats I'll be out there cheering him on and hoping like hell he's comfortable out there and Tommy Mac isn't pushing him around or sledging him etc. God forbid it comes to the point where he hasn't kicked a goal by the fourth quarter and he starts to all of a sudden feel like the stadium is closing in on him...................Oh please not that!

I think both will play NAB games and they will assess them from there. I think Vandenberg may impress. From looking at him at pre-season training his attack on the ball and size is good. I think his skills are still probably not quite AFL standard but you can tell he really wants it which is always admirable. I think fans of Tappscott may like Vandenberg.

Yes because of the lack of "firm" evidence through blood tests or actual discovery of the drugs on the premises, regardless of what the players thought they did or didn't take can the court be 100 per cent sure it was the illegal Thymomodulin taken. Quite a few of the players are really upset with the way they've been treated. Hird will struggle to survive whichever way it goes. I think getting Hird out of footy is the number one priority.