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The worst post i have ever seen full stop.

Playing soft, run and carry football that beats up some lowly opposition only on the wide spaces of the MCG, and loses by 100-186 points to the best teams, especially interstate or at Geelong, isn't playing to the players strengths, it's compromising for their weaknesses. Those weaknesses include the inability to defend strongly against good sides, inability to beat a good press and the inability to play hard, contested football. If you all want Melbourne to continue the weak, lily-livered football it's been adhering to for the last four years then by all means be happy with 8 wins a season. But it won't take us to a 'Grand New Flag' (nor will micro-waving your membership cards and calling for coach sacking). I'd much rather have a revolution that brings some period of tears and hurt but ultimately a better team and style of play in the long run. If that means disposing of some players that refuse to put-in and adapt, then that's what needs to be done. I don't see why the club should compromise in the face of public pressure, or from a few bleating supporters who are happy with continuing soft, mediocre football.

...blokes like Watts copping all the flack, despite clearly making progress. Then you've got a guy like Kruezer, who is consistently hailed by Carlton fans (at least the ones I know) and some press, as an A-grader. One of the most ineffective and overrated players in the competition. Though, as I tweeted Emma Quayle the other day, he escapes criticism. Then there's another guy - Bryce Gibbs - as soft as butter, but it's Watts who is under the microscope every time (apparently the commentators on TV were into him today). I'm not saying we can't question someone like Watts' development, but don't get sucked in by all the media hyperbole. All it demonstrates is a lack of intelligence and foresight. In Jack's case, the media attention is particularly severe. There's no doubt Jack needs to improve on his hardness at the contest, but his decision-making and disposal are usually right on the money. He is class and with the addition of toughness, his ability would be unquestioned. PS. Mods - I have no idea if this warrants a topic of its own, but I thought I'd share it, nevertheless. Edit. Spelling.

McDonald is a ripper and will be better then all our first round picks. Well done mate hold your head high.

You know what annoys me? Losing. The difference between Watts and Gibbs is that Gibbs is in a good side and Watts is in a shit one. If we were at the opposite end of the ladder, I doubt anyone would even care if Watts was soft.

Don't want to make an outrageous and unjustified call like the poster has here but I'm sorry this is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen. Has been one of the positives over the last year!

As frustrated as you might be, that is completely and utterly ridiculous.

I don't know if Neeld is the man to help us find that elusive 13th flag, or even to drag us up into finals contention, but I'll back him 100% for now. I'm 40, I've supported the dees since the mid 70's and while we might've looked good at times, we've always been fickle. Even during the Northey years, which are mythologised a bit around here, we'd manage to lose 3 or 4 on the trot with insipid performances at some stage during the year. Our players have always seemed to relax whenever they get a pat on the back, the hunger has never seemed to be there. We've all heard the rumours over the years, "hollywood boulevard", arrogant players that think being an AFL player is enough. Our culture is pathetic, and as much as it hurts us fans, we all know it's the truth. Finally we've got a coach that is willing to take that on. Willing to butt heads with our soft, pampered, arrogant, senior players before they pass that poisoned mindset on to yet another generation of Melbourne players. I'll back Neeld because the players have lost me. I can handle being crap, 08-10 wasn't that bad because you could see the effort, especially from our senior blokes, but it hasn't been there for a long time. The players have a choice, get on board or GTFO. The AFL is a tough competitive environment, we need tough, competitive players. If training is too hard, if adhering to structures is too hard, if going when it's your turn is too hard, if being disciplined on and off the field is too hard, then playing for Melbourne is too hard, GTFO.

Okay, here is my summarised defense of Jack Watts, and why I think he will be a great player. I believe that when he was scouted and drafted, our people knew what they were getting. This is evident in his carnival and underage videos.. He was never an aggressive CHF in junior and school football, unlike Hurley etc. He has elite skills and a great footy brain, and these are what allowed him to dominate in the under 18 competitions, etcetera. I admit that I have had moments of huge frustration with Jack over the past few years, but over the last couple of weeks I have made up my mind that he will be a star, and definitely one of the very best players from that draft. What I see is elite composure through traffic, beautiful skills and very good decision making, which will be improved with time. I think at times he can be a little lazy and lacking of an appetite but this will improve with time and the removal of so called 'leaders' like Colin Sylvia. His marking is getting much better, even though he might not be crashing packs just yet. To all the people who are ragging on Jack for not charging into every stoppage and winning the contested footy in close - we have players to do that, called inside midfielders. Jack is the ideal player to be hovering outside the contest, I believe. Who would you prefer to be on the recieving end of a handball from a stoppage... Brent Moloney who might bomb it 50 meters straight to an opposition player, or Jack, who could hit up a lead 30 to 40 meters away? In conclusion, I firmly believe in Jack, and I am liking what I am seeing of him in the back half. Will be a great player, whether it be as a half forward, half back or Goddard like utility (my pick, like many others here). Please have faith in him and get stuck into the players who are in decline, not improving every week.

Brawn or brains That time Watts stayed down 30 metres from goal was brains. 30 mtres out from goal with no crumbers around. He could see the other three would be unlikely to . mark and had the sense to stay down. How many times did we have everyone flying and no crumbers only to see them collect the ball. In a similar spot Tapscott foolishly ran back into the oncoming pack hoping for the heroic mark , cleaned up Howe (I think it was). He should have had the sense to stay down for the inevitable crumb. By the way this thread is one of the worst. All it does is continue to break down the morale of the club. We have too many dumb supporters

It's very rare when I say this, as I do like debate and other people's opinions, but shut this rubbish thread down!

Stupid thread and OP. Couple of efforts today were weak, otherwise he was pretty good. The guys is barely 21. How about having a crack at any one of Jamar, Moloney, Frawley, Garland, Sellar, Bennell, who are older and were far worse today. Get a grip, this Watts bashing should have passed by now and this thread is as weak as the 2 poor efforts by the man himself today.

He was our fifth highest disposals today and generally used the ball well by foot. He does more with it when he gets it in the midfield, rather than the backline; on the back line regularly has no options to kick to. Edit: 23 disposals at 87% Effective Disposal today... Wasn't our worst today, was among our best last week. Why the hate right now? And is this really anything that couldn't have been added in an existing thread?

Article was a good read until he mentions he would have made Moloney skipper. Then any substance in it was lost. NB: I was ecstatic that Neeld was more concerned about what Howe did with the ball after taking that mark than the mark itself.

Supposedly the players voted on the leadership group. Are you concerned that the players didn't rate Moloney's leadership traits, or that Moloney didn't lead by deed and example ? Considering that our group is still very young perhaps it's pleasing to note that we have a group of young players that can already recognise those that aren't deserving of such honours. Perhaps Moloney's omission is the first tangible example that this club is steering the right path.

I like Martin Flanagan but there are more than a few agendas flying around in this article. The passing over of Moloney. Bringing up Sheedy's relationship with indigenous players. And then there's the backhander to Neeld ... "There is footage of the Melbourne box when the Howe mark was taken. Mark Neeld's face is creased with anxiety. The mark brings him no joy. Howe's botched handball after he hits the ground causes an explosion of angst." He's entitled to his opinion but Flanagan can at times get too carried away with sentimentality and a nostalgia for yesteryear. I personally like the fact that Neeld was more concerned with Howe's sh1tty handball.

0-9 during his first season. Did Damien Hardwick flinch? Did he f ...k. This afternoon Richmond completely demolished flag fancy Hawthorn at the MCG. A massive win for that club, their supporters and their future. Here's what Hardwick had to say recently about his counterpart Mark Neeld. http://www.afl.com.a...39/default.aspx "Mark knows what he's trying to do. It's just going to take time. We were in exactly the same situation when we were 0-9. You could see the pieces of the puzzle come together slowly. It does take time for a playing group to get the game plan you're trying to implement. "Mark will be feeling flat at some stages, but he'll get there. He's very, very thorough. He'll continue on his pathway. He won't deviate from it and that's what will get the job done for him." I'd like to hear what Rudeboy, Grand New Flag and the other 'destabilizers' have to say about this these comments and what they mean for the MFC.

Was at game and I stll don't get the criticsm of watts. He gets singled out for two instances. 1 . Not going for a mark - ridiculous as howe was flying so he tried to crumb it. 2. Robinson intercept - it was another up and under bail floater that robinson read and anticipated better, bai's kick was shocking. Way over top all the slamming going on of watts. We got a lot more to worry about at the moment surely.

The wider football community uses the wrong word then. Lynden Dunn, especially circa-mo, making an art form of shitting his pants and flinching when in contests is what I'd call "soft". The infamous Bennell, Davey and Morton shirks were soft. Those boys were afraid. It might be a subtle difference, but that "not going" is different to Watts' style of "not going". FWIW I agree that he sometimes doesn't go when he should, so this discussion is probably purely semantic.

A few things. - Blease will make it, the kid is a star and it's great to finally see him strut his stuff. - We desperately desperately desperately need Strauss back. He provides a surety to our kickins that noone else does. - Beamer doesn't give a [censored]. Seriously, to jog across the square like that when you have space to lead into is a no go. See ya later. - Bennell, poor. - McKenzie one of the better taggers running around. - Bail's first half was superb, pity he blew up so badly. Also that kick over to Watts was AWFUL. - Tapscott cared more about trying to get reported than going for the pill. - JT, better. - JG getting touch back. - if you can purge the final term from your memory, we were pretty good. - I think about 15 of them blew up at once five minutes into the 4th

How about when Watts went back, filled the hole and took the fist in the back of the head from Betts, whilst holding the mark? As Wayne Carey pointed out on the radio, doing that took some courage, and that will develop over time in the backline and eventually he'll be able to take that to the forward line.

Of course Watts won't be traded, but there's a reason that 90% of opposition supporters think he's soft. He is. Just like Gibbs is soft, Watts is soft. It doesn't mean he can't play, and it doesn't mean he can't be a valuable player, but he's as soft as butter. It's just the way he is. He's wired that way. Hurley isn't, Watts is. Watts has far more talent than Hurley, but Hurley impacts games far more than Watts. And that's because footy relies on contests. Contests aren't Jack's forte, but clean open footy is. This won't please the multitude of Melbourne supporters that never want to hear a bad word about their darlings, but it's just the way it is. The good news ? He can develop a far better appetite for contested footy. And he will. But not enough to ever become a star. He just doesn't have it. I'll settle on a really clean 200 game player. And he will be.

Martin must come in for Jamar. His tapwork is completely ineffective at the moment and provides nothing around the ground.

watts out is ridiculous. Out: Sellar, Moloney, Green (inj), Bennell In: Martin, Couch, Petterd, Bartram I want to drop Jamar, but I think he's a better option than Sellar, so play Jamar as relief ruckman, with Martin playing as the number 1 ruck. At least he gives you something around the ground.

Will bet 10 grand that he will be .

I thought that the article was pretty poor. Big on 'feelings', low on critical thinking.

Again, we have this argument - should your player's strengths determine the coach's plan. Again, my view is that our players aren't good enough to determine anyone's plan. Let's play to their strengths and front run, and find easy footy and drive from the back with the 60 I50s we allow each week and let's take it to the worst third of the comp, while getting smashed by the rest because they play accountable footy and overwhelm our back 6. It isn't worth considering in my view. We have to instil a strong defensive, accountable, and tough mindset in our talented kids now or risk losing another generation of footy to our 'close enough is good enough' culture.

Players at Ocean Grove loved him and many still keep in close contact with him. Funny because when we had Bailey many were asking for a tough coach that could tell it like it is and bring a hard edge. Now people are complaining that he is too hard and as a result has lost the players....

To me it says: make sure you draft a couple of gun midfielders from the pointy end of the draft.

Very good lateral thinking freak but there's probably a reason why you are NOT the coach .Actually five right there .

In 2010 we had a great back line...one of the best in the comp. Wellman goes, Royal comes in and it goes downhill. Last year our midfield wasn't awful; we had some good games and some bad games. This year, Royal takes over the midfield coaching role. Now we have NO good games.

This club will never get anywhere if we made a decision like this. Whilst I agree he needs to develop an appetite for the harder contest, he's easily the best kick in our team and developing nicely. As long as Neeld doesn't do what Bailey did and baby him, he'll develop that thirst for body contact and then he'll be an A grader in two years.

I am such a Watts fan and really want him to make it, but some of his efforts today were... limp is the best word I can think of. He is playing limp footy. But it is getting frustrating. In the last quarter he went back into the play, took a mark and got 50 metres from Betts. This showed good courage and good reading of the play. In the same quarter he chose not to go for a mark about 30 metres out for goal when he had a perfect run at it and would have jumped over the other people pushing and shoving. And that lazy, limp kick out that led to a goal summed up the attitude he displays too often. He has got every skill, unique peripheral vision, can rack up possessions because of his reading of the play and can run as quick as any other bigger forward but lacks urgency and intensity. This was on full display today. Do we make him learn at AFL level or make him discover these traits in the VFL?

Ridiculous thread! I think you will be mincing your words.

It's all about season preseason, preseason training for next bloody season.....hope ya's no what i mean.....lol

The effort was fine, especially after last week's game. We held Carlton for 3 quarters and were in with a shot, despite not being able to win any clearances or contested possession. For me that says that our style of play is OK and that the players are starting to get a better idea of what they are supposed to do ...... it's just that they aren't good enough at the moment. We aren't yet fit enough, but we already knew that. Our players were out on their feet for the last quarter, which is why the game opened up. We also need a better midfield, because we were smashed in clearances. But I was happy with our defensive intent.

We had the chance to walk of the ground with our head held high at 3 quarter time win or lose but NO they said were the MFC we must give up and get flogged. Moloney must go now he was belted by Ellard who is a VFL player at best and bring in couch.

Yep to the well and trade table we go nothing left to see. Better effort for 3 quarters than capitulation. We are so very very unfit. I hope Brad Green is ok the rest of the players should watch the replay of his effort that's what's needed for 4 quarters.

A shame that 3 quarters of effort gets erased by one quarter of pure undiluted shite. One thing that stuck out, I can think of at least 4 times that we had clear cut simple chances completely squandered by Bennell and Dunn. Twice Bennell had the chance to run into an open goal and chose a glory shot. These undisaplined acts cost us BIG TIME!! There are more positives from the likes of Blease and Watts (although he did a couple of very poor kicks), Howe showed bits and Magner again was prominent. But when the going gets tough there are still too many passengers, a lot of players getting found out.

Neeld should have dropped him with the others. He's toast.

Someone please just smash Robinson, proper smash, none of these free kick type smashes, if Beamer isn't going to get his game going he should do us a favour and iron the guy out.

I like Martin Flanagan. But I'd prefer to read what he's good at, rather than football specifics. I have no doubt in my mind that Neeld was just as [censored] off with Cale Morton calling for the ball from Howe, rather than Howe handballing to a call. Morton should have had his wits about him as to the surrounding or closing in opposition players. It sh!ts me no end to see players calling for the ball on the overlap with no nous or knowledge to those close by or the "heat" they are about to encounter. Cale is a culprit of this time and again, McKenzie, Moloney, Trengove and Jones are others. The best thing Howe could have done is get up, compose himself and hit up someone efficiently. I understand the needs to move on quickly, but Howe was very unaware on who or what numbers were around after that mark, he trusted the call by Morton. It's no wonder our players have trust issues. They lack nous. And sometimes this comes from continuity of games with one another.

Agree 640MD. But I want to stress that he may not be able to do that effectively until such time as we get a competitive and polished midfield. I feel for him, I feel for the supporters, I feel for the posters on Demonland and their Demon families, and I feel for those supporters waiting an eternity and to those who thought our rebuild was just about there. Which it wasn't. I can see in the next few weeks much of the same thing against solid quality opposition and from those putting heat on the coach and club. Some may think the club deserves heat and that they brought it on themselves. All I ask is those have a modicum of thought as to where we are at and working towards as a club, the personnel we have in the midfield, the quality of the opposition and that it's a long term solution rather than a quick fix.

I will be there! Got $12 ON THE DEES .Also special friend and 60 year supporter of the Dees is ill maybe wont see that premiership he spoke about so often.Seen the best and the worst of the team over the journey Would love the dees to do it for my mate and best supporter Go dees

Hi guys - I just wanted to introduce myself, I am one of the writers of The Daily Maggot (formerly The White Maggot). I just wanted to thank you guys for your support - we get our articles posted on Demonland quite regularly. As a daily reader of Demonland, I really appreciate it. I am a Melbourne supporter (I am sure you can tell by the occasional Simon Godfrey or Issac Weetra reference). So if you guys have any ideas, please let me know. Otherwise - I hope you keep enjoying the site. Cheers The Maggots

Brock McLean?

Richmond had Terry Wallace who left their list decimated, they are struggling for money, they have their own version of Debt Demolition and were on a level footing if not behind us. Now they are streets ahead of us and one of the major reasons is their midfield, it's the driving force behind their game. They have done well we have done poorly.

I honestly believe that we would have been poor under any new coaching regime a the moment. Our list needs a serious refresh.

Just get on board Hardnut and back in your coach to succeed. It's as simple as that.

You're right. Hence the nod to Rpfc with my sig. But it's not blind faith. It's genuine belief. I expect Neeld to come under significantly more fire over the next three weeks as we will in all likelihood get well beaten by Carl/Ess/Coll. You can see that there's a movement on here agitating for his dismissal. The Old Guard who are resisting change and don't want to put in the hard yards to change the culture of the club.