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When the club embraced Yuendumu when Liam first came to our club the outpouring of support from us was wonderful. The spirit of generosity was obvious to all. I did not read one negative opinion. So my question is - did we embrace just the fluffy story of the aboriginal boy from outback Australia making good ? Now the going is tough we need to ask ourselves - did we embrace just the good bits of Liam story or do we support Yuendumu community, its problems and its most famous son warts and all. I have no idea what has gone down and will wait for facts. What I do know is that the lifestyle I lead sitting comfortably in Caulfield is light years away from what is happening in the Northern Territory. What I do know is that what is going on in the Northern Territory is tragic and transcends sport and my beloved MFC.

Why would any lawyer be looking at a football club forum? "And now your honour I'd like to introduce exhibit A, a print out of the pure speculation and inane ramblings of a bunch of nutcases on demonland, an AFL forum" I'd reckon they will just stick with the actual witnesses to the case not people 5,000kms away who have NFI what they're talking about.

I don't understand why people continue to post things like "I don't know the full details, but..." You either wait for the full details to emerge or you don't, there's no real in between and no good comes from prematurely hypothesizing. I also get that this is an MFC site, but how the MFC is people's first thought on hearing a young man is in custody is sad IMO. The MFC's concerns are a distant second (or wherever) here.

Aboriginal life at Yuendumu is for us apparently as unimaginable as life on another planet. The allegations of an alcohol-fueled machete-wielding Liam seem to us so incongruous as to be inconceivable, nothing to do with the Liam we have known for three years. They are images from that other world, and the personal pressures/obligations under which people there live, about which we know nothing. Whatever his actual involvement there was, it certainly doesn't compute for us. The Court - with some degree of local understanding - has sent Liam back to Victoria and, for the present, tells him to stay away from that other world. Who can find fault with that? With what paternalistic ignorance would we add our judgement? So I say, we should accept him back with gratitude. On the footy field here, he will still be the extraordinarily talented and imaginative player we have marvelled at for the past three years - which may not be who he is in the Northern Territory, but it certainly is someone he wants to be. Perhaps Liam will in time process these two lives he lives, and discover some way of harmonising these two worlds he is connected to. Maybe he won't. Maybe it can't be done. What a really wonderful thing it would be if it could happen. But we should at least embrace him living here, welcoming him back to the MFC and maybe trusting that the "alternative story" of the Liam who lives in our world - one of the most extraordinary and talented and courageous people in the AFL - will in time be strengthened, and will be good for him. He is some pioneer, whatever the eventual outcome! A privilege to call him ours.

Sadly, there are times when I feel ashamed to be a Demonlander Time for a few posters to either shut-up or grow-up

I've seen many players come and go, but with the exception of Troy Broadbridge, I have never felt so heartbroken and shattered. This just cannot be the end for Jurrah and I hope we stick by him and help him, because football has the power to save his life and help his family and he deserves that opportunity so much.

Ok I think rpfc's post above sums it up well until any new updates come to light this thread is closed. Quite a few posts have been deleted accordingly and everyone seems to have had their say. Thanks. H_T.

Agreed. Anyone up in arms about Joseph Kony should have a look at what's going on in Central Australian communities like Yuendumu. People there are stabbing each other with knives, hacking members of their family up with machetes and becoming trapped in a cycle of poverty, drug addiction and violence. Indigenous people often feel an obligation to their own tribal law, even though carrying out the retribution and "payback" expected of them is likely to get them thrown in jail and lead to the their people being labeled "savages." We should clean up the mess in our own back-yard before even worrying about how to solve problems half a world away, because if we're not smart enough to help our own people, then we're definitely not smart enough to help people we only feel compassion for because we saw a thirty minute video on the Internet.

FOJ sponsor?! We have a Demon in jail and you want to talk PR?! Just stand by him until the time we have to let him go. What does our club stand for? I guess we are about to find out.

Gerard Whateley is brilliant. Love his commentary, writing and work on AFL 360.

Olisik and Benny you've had your say. Others have had a chance to respond. Please leave the personal stuff out of it. There is enough stuff on this issue that it needs no further comment. Use the "Like This" button if you want to add your support for a view. As Whispering Jack has said this is a very sensitive issue and the mods will take a very hard line both to keep the discussion civil and avoid any legal implications. Anyone stepping too far off course will be banned with a no tolerance policy. Please respect the situation guys. Fan

I like most of you am devastated, and like most of you struggle to understand the complexities of this situation. However I for one have had my middle class middle age eyes opened wide to the plight that confronts many of our indigenous brothers. Their journey is so much harder and angst ridden than most of us will ever know. That such a situation as the one in Yuendumu exists in this country is a blight on our great country. I wish Liam and his family well and most of all that the people of Yuendumu find peace amongst themselves. Perhaps that now that such a high profile person is involved the responsible Governments may step in and finally tackle an intolerable situation. I'm also sad and disappointed for our football club who have demonstrated great understanding and support for indigenous players and should be commended for doing so.

So if it is found that he has no part in the viscious assault and was just caught up in the brawl (with his only family members) you would tell him that he is not welcome back at the club. I tell ya what, if my family was involved in a brawl, i wouldnt give a [censored] who I played for/worked for or anything, I would be there protecting the ones I loved. They are the most important thing in my life. Period. Get off your high horse

Yes, well said. The MFC should stand by him through this mess until adjudication. We gain nothing as a community by abandoning him now. This is character showing time. Resolute to the controversy and respectful of the law.

Ok, we have got as much information as we will get before his case his heard. From Liam's perspective: He is a 23 kid in an awful situation that he hasn't improved, but that is drawn back to by his own selflessness and the selfishness of others. From MFC's perspective: The club should stand behind a player they have embraced and help him with his issues and his court case. The club needs to punish him for his drinking and leave the details of the case for NT justice. They can then make a decision after the court case has been decided. From MFC supporters perspective: Feel helpless and heart-wrenched for a little while and deal with the conflicting desires and emotions the best way you can. Admire/admonish the club for its stand - it's up to you. From a 'community as a whole' perspective: Use this situation to further your own agenda all you like. The MFC does not bow to pressure from any direction and will do what is right for a young man and a club that wants what is best for him.

Liam said he wasn't involved and I believe him. I don't think he would have made a comment if he was involved but the fact he said he wasn't makes me confident he is telling the truth.

Agreed. If he wasn't a footballer, what would have become of him after Wednesday night? Football is his salvation, and the only reason he has to stay in Melbourne and help himself and his family to a better life. I have no doubt that he is well aware of that, and realises that without footy his life will be very different. That's why his people are very keen and supportive of his career, because they understand the wonderful implications of having stability, a career, money, and most importantly something real to focus on. He has done an extraordinary thing for his people and his community already, he has given them a name, and a voice and a place on the map, and his power and influence will continue to grow if he remains a successful footballer. We should be doing everything we can to help him achieve that goal, not for our own selfish needs (because lets face it, he is a gun footballer and we need him in the team), but because it is the right thing to do for someone who has very little to fall back on.

Well, I'm certainly NOT going to label them and be prejudiced towards them. What I AM going to do is make sure that people I know are aware of the issues going on in Central Australia, in the hope that they put some of their goodwill into the third world country sitting smack bang in the centre of the luckiest country there is. I've had a lot of interaction with Indigenous people during my life, and I know enough to know that I don't know what they're all like. But if they're anything like me, they don't want people interfering unnecessarily in their lives. They want support, freedom, protection, happiness and all the other things which you want. Liam Jurrah needs our support, just as everyone does through difficult times in their lives. Also, the Kony charity is not about raising money, it's about raising awareness for a bad man and the bad things he's getting people to do for him. Likewise, more good can be done in Australia for the Indigenous community by raising public awareness and political pressure than simply donating money to existing and ultimately flawed State and Federal government schemes.

This is very important. Everyone on demonland is calling out anyone who is giving a voice of reason to the victim here also. There are alot of families in suffering today in Alice Springs and a community like Schwab said is split. I hope for Liams sake this decision doesn't split him too much from the one's he loves. It's fantastic for us to say yay bring him back to the safety of the MCG but removing him entirely from Alice Springs would be no doubt devestating for his partner/wife, family and extended friends also. It's not as easy as saying get him out of there.

There is one thing that matters above all else, and that is, that we help ensure that this incident does not ruin Jurrah's life. So many talented young people in those communities have had their life destroyed due to similar circumstances, and it would be a tragedy if Jurrah's life goes the same way. I firmly believe that football has the ability to save Jurrah from a life of violence and struggle, and I also believe that the financial, emotional and legal support afforded to him as an AFL footballer would greatly benefit his family and community in the future. Already the amount of awareness that he's managed to raise is enormous. Our main focus needs to be on getting his life back on the right path, and to not let one (ableit serious) incident dictate the rest of his very young life. I have no doubt that we will provide the best legal support for him, and I just hope that this helps him recover and return to a life of success. Regardless of what he has done, I think that deep down we all know that he is a good person, caught in a terrible situation. He has had to overcome a lot to make his way in life, and I am hoping that this inner strength allows him to do the same in this case. The best thing we can do is to support him, because it's too easy to wipe your hands clean of people when they have done something wrong, but like it or not, Jurrah is one of our own now and it is our duty to protect and help him.

I've got it recorded give me 10 minutes and I'll type it up.

I don't have the will to tear this post apart at the moment but I urge people to reject this view and await further news before communal damnation.

I think as a club the MFC and all supporters should get right behind LJ and take a moment to think about how hard it must be for someone so young to have so much responsibility and pressure put on them and how hard that must be. I do not condone what is being alleged to have happened. I just think we need to show Liam that he has a family here in Melbourne that supports him no matter what, not just when it suits us.

A friend of mine will be getting back to me today. He's a detective in the Alice Springs police. He also assured me there are quite a few Demon supporters in the force there. Hopefully he only gets the reckless charge and not the other two.

I have no idea what has happened and will not embrace the conjecture. Let's just calm down and stay by the wireless. I will stand by Liam until the facts tell me not to.

I'm confused. Surely it is in our best interest as well as Liam's, that this works out for the best. Why then are you so determined to convict him and banish him? I highly doubt that the police would let a man convicted of violent assault with a dangerous weapon, to leave the state. There was more support and belief in that scumbag Tom Scully than some people are showing towards Jurrah right now. Mind boggling.

What can't go on? Liam has never asked for time off before during the season, he has never given us any reason or any indication to believe that he wasn't dedicated to his career, and he has certainly never done anything unlawful or not within the rightful conduct for a Melbourne player. It's very very sad, but it seems that some posters here are jumping to conclusions, and making ill informed comments because of Liam's heritage and cultural background. We've had a string of some serious headcases at Melbourne, and many other players who have gone out and done the wrong thing (Sylvia, Moloney etc), and all have been afforded multiple chances. Liam has never done a thing wrong by our club, and yet some people are happy to get on their high horse and pass judgement and punishment without knowing even half the story. What a wonderful supporting community we all are.

There's a couple of important things to remember here... NT Police quite often hold Aboriginals for a time while they sort out the intricacies of the situation. Dealings involving tribal disputes and law are massively complicated which is generally not helped by the lack of trust between tribes and police. Liam, being a fully initiated warrior and elder is bound by tribal law to get involved or at least try and resolve any family disputes so while instinct says he was not an instigator, he may be classed as an offender by involvement. It will be interesting to see how the NT court system deals with this as it will give us an insight into how they deal with Australian Law v Tribal Law.

Apparently there's nothing about machetes in the players charter so he's probably ok

If there is an Admin available, I think rpfc's post is the perfect point at which to lock this topic up. He has summed it up beautifully.

To lighten the mood here a bit... Perhaps this is the ultimate act of team mate sacfrifice by LJ to deflect attention away from one Mr. Watts?! If so..well played, but a nudey run would have surficed! Too soon?

I had no idea how dire the situation was where Liam comes from, and now this awareness will spread to sports fans and others in the community. That is a good thing. The NT government need more support from the Federal government and the Australian public. Is there anything we demon supporters can do to help? This is much bigger than a football issue

Liam may also avoid conviction and gaol time by being innocent of the charges

I am just glad to know that, unlike some of our so called supporters, this club has a heart!

You are being very naive if you think that a white fella from the MFC had any place interfering (or could interfere) with his obligations to his family. Is Liam meant to have a minder with him 24/7 any time he returns to NT? That's ridiculous. We are all upset at the prospect he may never play for the MFC again, but this story is much bigger than that. CS acted very professionally in his responses from what I read.

Well worth a listen for those unfamiliar with indigenous culture.

Usual Pleasentries upon arrival.. Cam Schwab- Liam has been charged we are trying to get him back to Melbourne asap. - ultimately the court will decide what the result will be here but we will try and assist and support him as much as we can during this period understanding that we are dealing with incredibly complex, emotional and delicate situations. - Liam has always in our estimations a person with great honour, against the odds been one of the great football stories who has dealt with everything he had to deal with, also with great maturity which we are hoping he can do so while dealing with this particular issue. - How much and what can happen from onwards can only be speculation, how it unfolds with the courts will be dictated in the main, what happens from this point onwards is all in the future. I will answer the questions as I can understand the sensitivities in this matter. Q1. Will Liam be going to court today? Yeah hopefully that will be dealt in the courts this morning and he will be back on a plane this afternoon. Q2. Have you spoken to him? No we haven’t. Q3. What was the going-ons with him heading back to his community. Was it under the supervision of the club? He basically returned to the Alice Springs to be with his family. The sister of his partner passed away quite suddenly and he has been assisting her through that process. Obviously in between that a significant court process has been heard. We have come to realise that often Liam is torn between his responsibilities of being an elder and the responsibilities of his community and that of being an elite athlete and AFL footballer. Q4 What sort of support is the club offering? As much support as we possibly can. I think everyone understands how much the club has supported Liam in the past 3 years that he has been here and we continue to provide that same support and attitude. Q5 Cameron did you want him to come back a little sooner? He communicated with the club fully; he had a complete understanding of where he was at and what he was doing. Obviously what happened yesterday came as complete shock and as a surprise like you guys we have tried to piece together what has happened in the past 24 hours. Q6 What are the charges and how much can you elaborate on them? Really can’t elaborate anything. Q7 And the charges are? As per released. Q8 Did you have some fears for his safety and that’s why you wanted him to come back? I think there is always those fears. Anyone who understand the area and anyone who read Martin’s article in The Age this morning would understand the conflict Liam deals with. When he goes home obviously we do become a little fearful but he also goes back with our respect with us knowing everything he has to deal with and how he still is a leader within his family and his community. Q9 Have you got guys flying up there? Yes, as you can tell its not easy to get in and out of Alice Springs but we do have people going up there today to get him and bring him home. Q10 When he comes back will he be in a different living situation? Will you have someone living with him? He is already in a fantastic living situation and we have never had any issues with that whatsoever. Q11 Will you be keen once he’s back to get him back into the flow of footy? (Presuming to get his mind off it) Once he comes back we’ll be keen to sit him down and firstly see where he is at with everything. He’s obviously gone through a very traumatic situation and we’ll need to see how he is coping with all of that. Q12. When will you do that and will you be of assistance? He will be back today and yes the club will be of assistance. Q13 Are the players aware of the situation? I think everyone has been aware of the situation its been well documentated. Liam has constantly been back and forth to home but this is literally a situation that has split his family and his community. Q14 What verbs would you use to describe the situation? Complex, emotional and having some empathy to understand the situation. We’re learning as we go as well. Q15 Has this raised issues with Indigenous footballers and whether we need to do more? The AFL is doing some great things in allowing everyone an opportunity. The most important thing is we don’t deal in stereotypes, I think that’s important. We provide support for any peson whos involved in our game. Liam is the centre this time and we will provide him the support the same as any other player. Q16 As an elder does ti make it more difficult? Not really we still feel empathy and we will work through it. Q17 How are the club working through it? Josh Mahoney and Neil Craig are both talking to the players as we speak and running them through it. Q18 What support are you providing and is it sufficient? That’s a great question we are providing great support and we’re learning as we go. We’ve been too his community on a number of occasions and it is something very different to what we are used to so we must have great empathy for it. But at the same time we would never be presumptuous to think we ever really understand it fully. I think the way the media has dealt with it today and the articles I have read reflect that and I really appreciate and respect that. Q19. Is this the most complex issue you’ve had the dealt with? Absolutely it’s a complex one but lets not forget about the quality of individual here and what he has put up with throughout his career. Our expectation is he will continue to work through this with the maturity he has shown thus far. Q20 After this latest episode is there a chance he may just say this is too hard? Look we’d have to sit down and talk with him about that I think it’s important we just take it one step at a time. The first matter to deal with is obviously the matter at hand. And the rest.

Im not passing any personal, social or moral judgment on what has occurred with Liam - which you would see if you could progress past the opaque and obvious inclination of many here to attempt to imply some sort of barbaric or ignorant theme into what I have written, and then conveniently get 'up in arms' with a whole host of sanctimonious expressions. To summarise my views: - MFC is a business, and very recently a struggling one at that (some would say its by no means out of the woods) - We are struggling for sponsorship and membership - a player (not an aboriginal - that is incidental) has requested personal leave whilst injured and before the start of a very important season for the club - this player has been arrested, and charged, with possession, intent, and causing serious injury with a machete - being charged with a criminal offence, NOT PROVEN, is cause for summary dismissal in nearly all employment relationships - accordingly, MFC should and I have no doubt will, one way or another, bring an end to its employment relationship with this player at the appropriate time. I support this. - the financial ramifications for the MFC as a result of this could be catastrophic. - I wish this player the best and hope he comes through it as best as can be hoped. It will be interesting to see how the club handles this given its recent spouting of 'no-nonsense' and 'elite preparation and expectations of players' which is purported to be some sort of panacea to our listlessness and inconsequential existence in the league which has been the hallmark of recent eras.

What a ridiculous argument "Regardless of any explanation" and you admit you know nothing of his situation but you're happy to cut him loose! Like most others I'm far from happy about what's happened at that someone was seriously hurt, but at what point do we stop the cycle of embracing the Aboriginal community and then opportunely cut it off when we don't like confronting complex, ingrained problems. Simply, we should be trying to be part of the solution, not trying to wash our hands of it.

Two very sensible posts amongst the dross. Well said.

Unbelievable - we have a professional sportsman here representing one of the oldest clubs in the world, who requests personal leave from the club on the outset of what is one of our most important seasons in memory, is then arrested and charged with possession, intent, and causing serious injury (all with a machete mind you) and you're crying for support? Im sick of this cliche and fashionable attitude - "A very open article that everyone should read before jumping to conclusions on situation and character". Give me a break.. Regardless of any explanation, he has no place at the Melbourne Football Club following this incident. End of story. I say and comment nothing on his personal situation as I know nothing of it nor of the trials and tribulations his position in the Yuendemu community puts him through, save to say that I wish him all the best with what must be a tough time for him.

What if the charges are unfounded??? Will you welcome LJ with open arms? Gee, you seem to have thrown him under the bus without waiting to see what happens in the future. LJ needs ALL of our support - not this!

Magner looks nothing like class - he looks all grunt.

I hope it turns out better than your last defence of a Melbourne player

Ridiculous. So every time one of our footballers goes home, or goes away we need to send minders on the off chance they'll get into trouble? I would not have guessed in a million years that Liam Jurrah would be involved in a violent incident. He has no history to cause suspicion. Besides, he was given time off to deal with personal matters, club officials had no right being there with him. Can we just calm down and wait for more reliable information?

There's a statement on the club site re why he was given leave. Don't know what's worse, what Liam's going through, or some of the posts here.

I think any attempt at joking on this thread is totally inappropriate . Liam is an honourable and dignified man , and we need to respect his presumed innocence until further is known . I don't think any of us can truly appreciate his cultural and tribal and family responsibilities .

quoted for being the most sane poster so far......here here

I don't think they have demonland in jail...

Calm down everyone, Captain Optimism is here to save the day.