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We will never be any good while the listed players above are our seinor players. When these players below are the main core that is when we progress: Grimes Trengove Tappy Gysberts Blease McKenzie Frawley Garland Howe Gawn & Co Forget the older guys they have had their chance.

I was so traumatised watching Bambi as a child, I'm pretty certain I cried for a whole week about it. I guess it was good preparation for watching Melbourne.

I would never wish what was imposed on the MFC last season on any other club especially one which is struggling in the bottom eight.

now we just need a poster to take the "I believe in Ryan" role takers?

I love this line: "The last thing Ryan would want is for this to turn into a saga," he said. Well if you don't want it to turn into a saga sign with the Kangaroos or tell them you're leaving.... He is tarred with the same shitty brush that Scully is!

Disagree vehemently. He is not starting to lose it. Long gone already - kooka la munya - away with the pixies - relevant nutjob (I say relevant because unfortunately the nutjob is on the rules committee)

To suggest that we delist our captain on the basis of a contact injury is nonsense. To suggest that the fitness bloke is responsible for injuries that occured before he arrived or that occured as a result of contact in a contact sport is nonsense. To forget hawthorn's injury list from last year or just overlook geelong's ruck problems (and say that these things don'tr occur for them) is nonsense. I do not want to read ignorant guff on this site. BASIC inquiry would have got rid of the need to post pessimistic MFCSS dross that polluted my mind. To ask you to not bother in the future is a pretty mild response. Sloonie, it is sweet that you suggested I am silly...given your name. And no hint of irony. You should take that show professional. Don't get me wrong, i like that name. It is sooo much more creative than just using your real name (like i did). And it is better than calling yourself hannibal, or ben-hur, or spartacus or ego-projection or anything else truely pissy.

Let me preface this by saying that I am leader of the Jack Grimes fan club. I simply love the man. But to all those here on Demonland- Stop Bloody Whinging. Every team has injuries. EVERY TEAM. Brisbane just lost their Captain again. Collingwood has two knee reco's and a few other medium termers. Hawthorn could barely field a fit side last year. Fremantle started recruiting blokes from the mines to fill in.... It is a contact sport and injuries will happen. I don't want any Melbourne player to ever get injured and i will curse the world whenever it happens, but stop acting as if it only ever happens to us. Whether he is back in two or ten weeks, the true test of whether we are an improving side, and even a good side is whether we have depth to cover. Whether there are blokes who can and will step into the void. If you think i am talking crap, think of a premiership team who lost their all australian CHB just before the finals and he never played again. Yet they have won 3 now in 5 years. If that's what we are aiming to become then we must develop a robust enough list that can cater for these situations. I love Grimey and think he is an absolute Jet. I am very thankful that on the face of it he will be fit for round 1. But if he is not then we need to be good enough to cover his loss.... So quit the woe is me crap and the it always happens to Melbourne attitude as if no other club in the AFL has experienced it.....

Yeh, lets roll over like North did with the jumper. Make us all feel proud to be supporters. Maybe, just maybe, taking a stand and not behaving like the whipping boys will bring us more success than letting people kick sand in our faces. Maguire can stick the QB up his fat arse for all I care. If we lift our game we'll play Collingwood twice each year anyway.

Paul Roos commented that this rule would see a fundamental shift in drafting players favouring those who could run. Neeld and Buckley have essentially backed up what Roos has said. I am not sure you can dispute (as Bartlett and Mark Robinson have done) the premise of the argument. The more you restrict the interchange, the longer players will stay out on the ground. A fundamental necessity is to be able to run out 4 quarters of football. Players who have the big tank and can run all day are therefore surely favoured by this as opposed to your burst player. Therefore if you have your turn at the draft and you cant decide between a big motor and burst player at the same pick would you not lean to the big engine ?

His worst career move was to leave Melbourne.

I would happily hazard a guess that CS wouldn't have spent too much time worrying about the blazers, and as RPFC alluded to, I'm sure he can multitask a little. I absolutely love it, whilst agreeing that it needs to be something which is really kept for special occasions. I can see this being something which two Jacks and a few other boys will cherish at the end of their long and successful careers Not only that, it's a one off. All for celebrating our tradition, and couldn't give a brass rahzoo what any other supporter has to say about it.

I like to think that our senior players have been a victim of a bad Football Dept for too long. Bad and out dated coaching. Daniher was kept too long. He was a great coach in his day but was kept too long and his coaching methods became out dated. Bailey was just a disaster. He came from a club who won a Premiership from the tail end of a style of play that won premiership's (similar to Daniher, greyhound types playing outside attacking football). Development. We have had skeleton staff concentrating on trying to develop players with very good draft picks. Development had not been good for ten years. Poor recruitment and trading. Great midfields have a team of players supporting each other to play to each others strengths whilst developing. As do the forwards and backs. Not since the 90's and early 2000's has the MFC had a good balance of each of the 3 different parts of the game. The club chasing tails. In the early 2000's we have a poor backline, now we have a decent backline. Problem fixed. At the same time we had a strong forward line and very good midfield. The forward line fell over and we recruited to fix this problem and tried to fix our lack of inside mids at the same time. The forward looks much better but now our mid stocks are bare. We are now chasing mids to fix the problem or have been for a while. Back to recruiting. One year we recruit all mids, the next all talls. Were is the balance? All trying to fix holes. This year was the same. All big players with grunt and mostly players within an age group. Still trying to fix holes wihjn the list. In regards to the senior players. We have some very good talented players but they suffer the consequences of the FD deficiencies. Moloney is a very good mid. Yes he is inconsistent, but you coach against us. Who do you stop? Only Moloney. No one else can be damaging. Green is a mid sized forward. We try and make him a midfielder. He has less impact, goes back to a forward, becomes AA, so we continue to stack on the pressure playing him in a KP. WTF, no wonder his form goes down. Davey is a small forward who can be damaging offensively and defensively. Coaches fear him and we make him a roaming mid due to damaging foot skills and his motor is poor and is easily stopped. Rivers is an excellent damaging 3rd tall, and he continues to play A KPB. Good teams play gorillas on him and push him deep. I'm don't like blaming the individuals as they are very good individually. They just continue to block holes due to a poor FD and coaching. I could go on about facilities of the past etc. Too Many reasons of why with our club. Blame the club not the individuals.

This is a really good thread and has got me thinking. Most of us would remember that period of weeks when we found out that David Neitz would have to retire due to a potentially serious neck injury. When he stepped down we had Junior McDonald, Green, Davey and Rivers. But when it came down the crunch the only person of experience, with on-field ticker and the ability to represent the club in public was Junior McDonald. What I am getting to is this: it is in the last 2 - 3 years of Neale Daniher's reign that the leadership development stalled. Once Neitz stepped away there was Junior, then a huge gap to anyone else. With all due respect to Rivers, Davey and Green none of them inspire people to follow them - at least not from the point of view od supporters. Further to this, Bailey demonstrated a mindset that he was coaching boys rather than men and so the leadership development in his years was also basically zero. And this is one of the main reasons MFC went after Neil Craig and why Todd Viney was retained - they can develop leaders. From what we see and hear about the club we now have a decent leadership development program in place and the right people to lead it through. I can't tell you my relief when Grimes was appointed Captain. I reckon he is a beauty. With him, Trengove and Jones involved we are at last on the right track after 5 years or so of leadership development stagnation. At least I hope so!

Isn't it funny how we perceive things differently? I thought I was being positive... I said we should improve... Look, I get that overt and consistent negativity isn't great, but that isn't the problem at the MFC (it's a problem, but not the problem). The real problem is that our expectations on players are outside what they can achieve. I am just attempting to point out that our senior players are not comparable with the best sides, nor middling sides, and until they become more consistent, more committed, or usurped by others - we will struggle.

hate how essendon, collingwood and carlton dont lose players; feel for north honestly

I think his dad shovels elephant [censored], so he'll be working under Phil.

This site is a bit addictive for an enthusiastic Demon supporter retired to the country. Yes there can be plenty of skiing and much involvement in the local community including our own Beechworth Bushies who carry the red and Blue and Milawa who carry the demon colours. We dont have the benefit of 5 year rebuilding up here and I think that MFC has often confused a 10 year business plan with a game plan. The window for player performance is very short and we should be aiming as Neeld apparently is for success quickly. I am pleased with the list development and hope that all players are used with maximum exploitation of their skill. I agree that Saints and Dogs should be sliding and hope we are ahead of Richmond Essendon etc We dont have a proven Judd star but Trengove and a team around to create space and movement will be interesting. With Clark adding muscle Watts getting stronger we could have a Brereton/ Brown figure in the forward line. Although I like Watts speed on the wing. We have plenty of options with Davey returning to the forward line for the small crumber and with Bate and even Dunn of the flanks we have plenty of options also for attack. I can even remember when Green was a Striker, every touch though not many seemed to result in a goal, I hope he can find that form again. The Defence as many of you guys have pointed out is solid with options for every forward line in the comp and if we can get the mix right on the day we are competitive in every match. Despite our miserable years we have been more competitive against the pies and have shown we can play great patches. A new coach to inspire the performance we need from every player can see us get a great start with some surprising (to others) wins. I just hope we can see every match that we are competitive and that players have given their all. With heads up we can win more than we lose.

agreed, the stigma is not going away anytime soon so lets embrace it.

If Collingwood lost Cloke do you really think they would jeopardize their flag chances by trading Pendlebury for Watts, a fringe player, and random crap? That trade wouldn't happen if Cloke stayed or left. Watts is more value to us than he is on the market. He is still all potential. We may want a 'star' but we cannot get one, we have to go and lure a young talent who 1) has the chance to become a star, 2) agrees to come to the MFC, and 3) can be affordable in trade week.

I'm also amazed that we have one of the best back 6 in the league, and people are wanting to get all fancy by tinkering with it ie. Frawley to midfield, Garland to the wing, Watts to play half back. FFS, we have seen what happens to a group of players that are left alone and develop in to a unit, why change it? Imagine what our forward line would be like if they got to play 20-40 games with each other as a unit rather than individuals. I don't recall seeing Scarlett, Taylor and Harley played forward or in the midfield. Someone, can't remember who, said that Bailey's biggest problem was that he was so focused on developing individuals that he forgot to develop a team. I don't think I've seen a truer word spoken on Demonland. If Neeld is fair dinkum about him developing players for roles, I thin kyou will find a very setteled forward line, midfield and backline, as those players will need to understand their role in their selected department. Playing Watts anywhere other than forward is developing the individual and not his role in the forward line. I understand that individual development is vital, put he will develop as quick up forward, and it will also mean the forward unit will develop quicker over the next 20-40 games as opposed to Jack playing in the backline for that period.

The very best players, generally, play at the very best clubs. How can we possibly lure a player from a club that's gunning for a flag, to Melbourne? The AFL isn't like manager mode on FIFA, we cannot orchestrate these ridiculous trades to our advantage. It sucks, but it is what it is.

If you want to aide his development, I'd rather see him play on a HFF or wing. Actually, I don't want to see him moved from CHF, only to go to FF for a rest. Last year he often had the number 1 defender or the biggest defender. This year, there will be games where he has the number 3 or 4 defender, due to Clark taking the best one, and possibly Martin taking the next biggest (but that doesn't mean the next best). Watts' development as a KPF will increase dramatically with Clark playing along side him in the forward line, not with Watts playing down the other end of the ground. We have to foundations of a great forward line (Clark, Watts, Martin), there aren't too many teams that would host 3 defenders that could match up better than those 3. Martin is obviously the weakest link at this stage, so to take Watts out of that equation, and replace him with Sellar or McDonald (for the reasons I said earlier), then all of a sudden we have a very predictable forward line again (as Clark will be by far our best option).

Indeed they will. Watts will be a buzzword in the AFL , even if he has a few shockers . There is an electricity about him ever since he came on the circuit . Whether hes on or off , Watts is a power-player.

Are you guys serious? How on earth are you prepared to play Watts on the half back line, just becuase Clark is our "go to forward' now? We got Clark in to support the likes of Watts, so that our forward line isn't one dimensional. The only way you have suggested to ensure this doesn't happen is to play Martin forward (who will rotate with Jamar), then add in Sellar and McDonald. Sellar was delisted last year and we picked him up at 50 something. Tom McDonald has played 2 senior games, was picked up at number 53, yet people are expecting both these guys to take over from Watts - a number 1 draft pick, full forward for the AAT in 2008, a boy that is fast becomming a man, and has probably one of the best football brains on our list (which isn't far from being on display on a more regular basis). HT - I'll match your North game where Watts played well on the half back line, with the game against Richmond at the MCG when some believed was his best game so far when he kicked 3, inculding that goal just before half time (from memoru) when he beat off 3 or 4 defenders and snapped. Sorry guys, I'm just of the opinion that if we start playing Jack Watts in our backline, we would actually be taking a backward step. As for the midfield, he would be a liability for the next couple of seasons, due to the fact that he is still growing/developing, and opposition sides, especially the top sides, would be licking thier lips if JW lined up against them in the centre. Clark is good, he can be very good, and he may end up great, but we will not win a premiership if he's our only go to man. Watts has class, and I have no doubt in my mind that he will be a far better player, actually, forward, than Clark.

Former Geelong ruckman Darren Flanigan was from Katamatite. IMO WC would have won three flags without the drug culture in the mid 2000's. Judd probably wouldn't have left and it's scary to contemplate but I think the gear put the clamps on both Kerr's and Cousin's careers. Ice/speed/cocaine scatters your brain with prolonged use and forget about ketamine ... you'd hardly remember how to tie up your bootlaces with a line of that stuff up your nostril. Lingering questions will forever remain, however, about the Eagles circa 1992 - 94 and the two flags they bagged then. Guys like Dwayne Lamb, Peter Wilson, Adrian Barich, Chris Waterman, David Hart, Mainwaring, Jakovich, Brennan et al .... all ran around looking like condoms full of walnuts with blue and yellow guernseys painted on them. Whoever ran that gym must've been serving some mighty fine protein drinks

Having said that, we are a monty to lose to them all and finish last

Your motto should be STFU

Who the f*** is Bambi

"They Took Our Jobs...."

Sh!t i thought i was going to read a serious Press Article & there up comes a picture of Bambi....Fcuk!!

You really do need to get out more.

Why is David Schwarz being patient??? What has this got to do with him?

I thought that Clark was being rested. Yeah, this isn't a great start to the praccy games.

I would like to see some proof of that. I don't recall that at all. What I recall is Mission Foods pulling out of a $1.2m a year deal with us to go to the WB for $1m a year. Your agenda is getting tiresome.

Couldnt agree more.

I think you make some very good observations in the OP, Thomo. Personally, I have been in the WIMP (Watts In Midfield Proponents) camp during the summer. We don't have many players in the midfield who can really end up being that elite 'untaggable' style of midfielder. He has speed, he has class, he can actually win contested style midfield ball. Plus he can float forward to mark and be really damaging. What we lack in our midfielders is real power. Not just strength, but strength with speed. Sylvia has it, but he hasn't been able to put anything together in a midfield sense. The only midfield type player we have that has a real blend of speed, power and endurance is Grimes. He has an ability to break lines and packs with his raw power, and do it for extended periods. People talking about Moloney don't quite understand the level we are looking for. Moloney is a good player, but nowhere near the top class. McKenzie is the same, as he will be a really good player and really important to our side, but he'll only ever be able to achieve a level below that. We need to look at players that are untaggable. Gysberts could well be if he gets bigger and improves his endurance, because he has the unbelievable Simon Black knack of being able of ghost through stoppages untouched and getting the handball out despite the bodies around him. I see Trengove as being taggable, despite being really, really good. From what I've seen of Viney, he has a knack of finding clean footy in contests - it just depends on whether it's an elite Sam Mitchell knack or a solid Brent Moloney knack. The dark horse is Jeremy Howe. His running is sensational and he has the ability burst run. That is, long efforts at top speed. He has the skills, he has the size and he has the X-factor. This is especially so if he adds strength to his speed and endurance. I think it's imperative to find a midfield star. We don't have many options that scream out that they could be it, which is why Scully is a loss. I think that Grimes, Watts and Howe are our best options.

Yet you think the other clubs are mugs willing to trade for someone who may be great. Why don't we keep Watts and offer them magic beans, seeing as we are talking fairy tale here. Lol cheers for the laughs