If we haven't won a game by round 8

[sylvinator 96]

At the end of last year it infuriated me that guyz like Pickett, Ward, Godfrey, Bizzel and Brown were in the starting 22 even when our season was dead and buried. In the end, these guyz got an extra few games, we were no more competitive, and they were delisted anyways at the end of the year. Instead, we should'v been playing every youngster we have.

Sure, i understand that Bailey has to give the experienced guyz a real go at it before he makes big changes, but if we don't start winning by round 8-9, he should cut his losses, and simply play the youngsters.

Almost all knowledgable football people agree that a player ussually only starts to play dominant roles in a team after around 50 games experience. Sure there are exceptions (like Judd), but even Ablett only really started to stamp himself on games until he hit the 40 games mark.

We should therefore play our young players for the rest of the season to fast track their development so they're ready to play as in 1-2 years time. Even if that means playing Frawley on Brown, or Morton of Cornes. If we aren't competitive with experienced guyz playing, atleast have youngsters who can improve through the experience of playing at senior level.

My preffered team if we haven't won a game by round 8:

Bell - Frawley - Martin

Bartram - Rivers - Pettard

Bruce - Mclean - Morton

Green - Bate - Dunn

Davey - Newton - Robertson

PJ - Jones - Sylvia

Int: Moloney, Maric, Buckley, Garland, Wonemirri White,

Players i'm still willing to persist with but youngsters should take preference: Miller, Carrol, Wheatley

Players who should be forced to retired gracefully)- Neitz, McDonald, Whelan, Yze, Holland

Players who might have to be given up on- Weetra, Bode, Meesan, C.Johnson, Jamar, Warnock

too early for senior footy- Grimes, Cheney, McNamara

Do people agree that if our season continues as it is, that we should push out the old, and shove in the new- even if it means playing youngsters in tough positions and out of their depth.

Imo, that's the only way we will improve.

[Gorgoroth 12,963]

I'd keep mcdonald simply because he has earnt the right to wear the jumper and can show the younger guys how to play the ball and play it hard.

[Choko 493]

At the end of last year it infuriated me that guyz like Pickett, Ward, Godfrey, Bizzel and Brown were in the starting 22 even when our season was dead and buried. In the end, these guyz got an extra few games, we were no more competitive, and they were delisted anyways at the end of the year. Instead, we should'v been playing every youngster we have.

Sure, i understand that Bailey has to give the experienced guyz a real go at it before he makes big changes, but if we don't start winning by round 8-9, he should cut his losses, and simply play the youngsters.

Almost all knowledgable football people agree that a player ussually only starts to play dominant roles in a team after around 50 games experience. Sure there are exceptions (like Judd), but even Ablett only really started to stamp himself on games until he hit the 40 games mark.

We should therefore play our young players for the rest of the season to fast track their development so they're ready to play as in 1-2 years time. Even if that means playing Frawley on Brown, or Morton of Cornes. If we aren't competitive with experienced guyz playing, atleast have youngsters who can improve through the experience of playing at senior level.

My preffered team if we haven't won a game by round 8:

Bell - Frawley - Martin

Bartram - Rivers - Pettard

Bruce - Mclean - Morton

Green - Bate - Dunn

Davey - Newton - Robertson

PJ - Jones - Sylvia

Int: Moloney, Maric, Buckley, Garland, Wonemirri White,

Players i'm still willing to persist with but youngsters should take preference: Miller, Carrol, Wheatley

Players who should be forced to retired gracefully)- Neitz, McDonald, Whelan, Yze, Holland

Players who might have to be given up on- Weetra, Bode, Meesan, C.Johnson, Jamar, Warnock

too early for senior footy- Grimes, Cheney, McNamara

Do people agree that if our season continues as it is, that we should push out the old, and shove in the new- even if it means playing youngsters in tough positions and out of their depth.

Imo, that's the only way we will improve.

I think your analysis is quite right in that supporters and the club are a lot better off to be losing games with guys that represent the future. That also teaches the young guys.

But what you have to be mindful of is losing total confidence and for the learning to go the other way by totally uncompetitive performances week in week out. So you do need a balance of players.

I would not be writing off Meeson before he has been given a go. I would also not give up on C. Johnson or Miller until season's end. And I agree with Condemned that McD has to play, as does White IMO.

[demons007 1]

At the end of last year it infuriated me that guyz like Pickett, Ward, Godfrey, Bizzel and Brown were in the starting 22 even when our season was dead and buried. In the end, these guyz got an extra few games, we were no more competitive, and they were delisted anyways at the end of the year. Instead, we should'v been playing every youngster we have.

Sure, i understand that Bailey has to give the experienced guyz a real go at it before he makes big changes, but if we don't start winning by round 8-9, he should cut his losses, and simply play the youngsters.

Almost all knowledgable football people agree that a player ussually only starts to play dominant roles in a team after around 50 games experience. Sure there are exceptions (like Judd), but even Ablett only really started to stamp himself on games until he hit the 40 games mark.

We should therefore play our young players for the rest of the season to fast track their development so they're ready to play as in 1-2 years time. Even if that means playing Frawley on Brown, or Morton of Cornes. If we aren't competitive with experienced guyz playing, atleast have youngsters who can improve through the experience of playing at senior level.

My preffered team if we haven't won a game by round 8:

Bell - Frawley - Martin

Bartram - Rivers - Pettard

Bruce - Mclean - Morton

Green - Bate - Dunn

Davey - Newton - Robertson

PJ - Jones - Sylvia

Int: Moloney, Maric, Buckley, Garland, Wonemirri White,

Players i'm still willing to persist with but youngsters should take preference: Miller, Carrol, Wheatley

Players who should be forced to retired gracefully)- Neitz, McDonald, Whelan, Yze, Holland

Players who might have to be given up on- Weetra, Bode, Meesan, C.Johnson, Jamar, Warnock

too early for senior footy- Grimes, Cheney, McNamara

Do people agree that if our season continues as it is, that we should push out the old, and shove in the new- even if it means playing youngsters in tough positions and out of their depth.

Imo, that's the only way we will improve.

We are yet to see Meesen to......some valid points though......

[Rogue 585]

I agree with the sentiment, but you're going too far to the extreme. I'm not sure why you're writing off Meesen. I also don't agree with discarding Wheatley based on age, either - he's still got plenty left in the tank if he's good enough.

I think that the culture at the Club would be pretty poisonous if, regardless of form, many good/good+ senior players had no chance to play senior footy. I think White, McDonald, and Whelan deserve an opportunity to play, providing they are playing decent football. Bailey's already sidelined Holland and Yze.

While I want to see us develop our younger players, it's important not to give young players a free ride if they don't deserve games.

[Yencks 8]

sylvinator...does your analysis include the promotion of rookies?

i am with you on most of that though

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I also think that the culture at the Club would be pretty poisonous if, regardless of form, many good/good+ senior players had no chance to play senior footy.

I reckon it would not be going anywhere if you played them and they did not justify selection. Barring significant injury to the list I would doubt their would be justification for playing a has been like Yze and Holland again.

In the second half of the season, those players who are likely to retire should be slowly eased out if they are not competitive.

But I agree with your general view its not a simple push out and a shove in process.

[sylvinator 96]

I think that the culture at the Club would be pretty poisonous if, regardless of form, many good/good+ senior players had no chance to play senior footy. I think White, McDonald, and Whelan deserve an opportunity to play, providing they are playing decent football. Bailey's already sidelined Holland and Yze.

While I want to see us develop our younger players, it's important not to give young players a free ride if they don't deserve games.

I would argue that there are certain circumstances where youngsters should be picked in the team EVEN IF there are old senior players who deserve a game more. Everyone knows that older guyz who have played over 100 games are going to be more competitive that a 10 game player.

HOWEVER, when your season is shot, it is pointless to play these senior players, especially those who aren't even going to be at the club the following year.

That's why i got annoying at seeing Brown,Ward,Bizzel,Pickett Etc playing, when we could'v been blooding the kidz. Yes, Ward performed better than Garland would have...however when you're season is gone, what's the point in seeing the same garbage from your old players.

my point is, that if our season is gone by round 8-9, we shouldn't make the same mistakes we did last year. play the youngsters and push out the old players who are no longer the future.

(btw, i agree the McDonald deserves a proper send off. he's been a champ. But i have personally writtten off Meesan as a player. We were conned by Adelaide into thinking he was good bc he could run, but unfortunately you need to be able to play footy, as well as be an athlete. if you guyz want to hold onto hopes of Meesan then thats cool)

[Scoop Junior 3,472]

Agree with your post, sylvinator. The only change IMO is to replace Round 8 with Round 5. I'd be happy to do it now. We've shown where we are at.

And for those that argue the lost confidence from less competitive performances, let me point you to one thing. Our confidence couldn't be any lower than it already is and we couldn't be less competitive if we tried. 4 goals against the worst defence in the league by 3/4 time on a great day for footy is bloody disgraceful. Forget all the rubbish about hitting the lead and improving later in the game. 4 goals in 3 quarters says it all...pathetic.

[Rogue 585]

I would argue that there are certain circumstances where youngsters should be picked in the team EVEN IF there are old senior players who deserve a game more.

HOWEVER, when your season is shot, it is pointless to play these senior players, especially those who aren't even going to be at the club the following year.

That's why i got annoying at seeing Brown,Ward,Bizzel,Pickett Etc playing, when we could'v been blooding the kidz.

I didn't say otherwise. As I pointed out, it seems Holland and Yze have already been sidelined by DB.

However, I think it's silly to put a line through good and better than good (do we have those?) senior players - not the Ward's of the world, but players I mentioned above.

[Cards13 9,117]

I'd keep mcdonald simply because he has earnt the right to wear the jumper and can show the younger guys how to play the ball and play it hard.

Only thing I don't agree with here. We've done this with Yze this year and look where it has gotten us. 1 game and probably only one for the year because he "deserved" it. If you're good enough ala Brad Johnson then you play, if you're not good enough no matter how much of a club legend you are then you don't play.

Look at the G Train. Played a few games now dropped and will be luck to get back in.

They've already said rnd 6 is the change over period, even though we have been playing younger players who have not exactly earned a spot in the 1's. But the older players will be phased out from then on leaving us potentially even worse losses but hopefully with a lot more commitment

[youami 54]

I'd argue that it has already happened. Last year 96 games were played by players who retired/delisted at the end of the year. This year Yze has played 1 game, Holland has not played a game, and Neitz will not play for at least 8 weeks.

Bailey has already started and has a good look at players like Garland, Weetra, C.Johnson, Newton, Frawley etc. This is the beauty of Bailey.

I think he has two goals, none of which revolve around winning a game this year.

Firstly, he would love to have a relatively injury free squad at the end of 2008, so they can all get proper pre seasons, rather than have the likes of Whelan, Rivers, Bartram, Moloney being nursed through the early rounds.

NB: He has not rushed any player back from injury this year, in fact it can be quite frustrating for a supporter to see him hold them back, but he's planning for the future.

He will also be looking to get in as many games to those he sees has a future, and games given to those, for the purpose of confirming in his mind that they dont have a future.

As an aside, I am very impressed with Yze's attitude, I've got no idea what has been said, but he looks to have accepted the role of developing and helping the young blokes at Sandy. He may get one more game, and I hope he does so we can send him off in proper style. He was a very good player for us for about 5 or 6 years, and was unlucky not to be an All-Australian (I think).

[Cards13 9,117]

I'd argue that it has already happened. Last year 96 games were played by players who retired/delisted at the end of the year. This year Yze has played 1 game, Holland has not played a game, and Neitz will not play for at least 8 weeks.

Bailey has already started and has a good look at players like Garland, Weetra, C.Johnson, Newton, Frawley etc. This is the beauty of Bailey.

I think he has two goals, none of which revolve around winning a game this year.

Firstly, he would love to have a relatively injury free squad at the end of 2008, so they can all get proper pre seasons, rather than have the likes of Whelan, Rivers, Bartram, Moloney being nursed through the early rounds.

NB: He has not rushed any player back from injury this year, in fact it can be quite frustrating for a supporter to see him hold them back, but he's planning for the future.

He will also be looking to get in as many games to those he sees has a future, and games given to those, for the purpose of confirming in his mind that they dont have a future.

As an aside, I am very impressed with Yze's attitude, I've got no idea what has been said, but he looks to have accepted the role of developing and helping the young blokes at Sandy. He may get one more game, and I hope he does so we can send him off in proper style. He was a very good player for us for about 5 or 6 years, and was unlucky not to be an All-Australian (I think).

Nice one. agree agree agree.... whether or not he has a game plan or not Bails is sorting the future today. The year is over.... deal with it. The issue for supporters is we are not seeing much to excite during games or for next season as yet. Hopefully (here's hoping) by rnds 15 onwards the young guys, some who have played already, some who have not are at least looking competitive.

Off the field as well I hope to see something positive from Macca and the succesor are El Presidente. Gardner has signalled for awhile he wants out, just no one seems to be interested besides Jim Bob. I would love to see a guy like Ron Walker get it with Jim as Deputy. The top end of town with business acumen, profile and connections with an ex player who has worked with our youth to better them. Could see it working well

[Adzman 2,154]

ROUND 8 is a fair yardstick. If we are winless by then, finals are pretty much out of the question unless Chuck Norris dons the red and blue.

Sylvinator has some good points. I am not sure gutting the playing list at seasons end is such a good move, you want your young kids to learn from someone, guys like Macca and Wheels have something to teach.

Time has passed for Holland, verdict still out on Neita (looking grim) and Yze (where the hell are you mate??).

Weetra needs more time (was injured most of his rookie season, so this is his first crack as a season), and Meesssse has yet to be tried at this level.

We will need to cut 5-6 guys to help rebuild, but a suggested cleanout of 11 player could do more harm than good.

[dee-luded 2,959]

I would argue that there are certain circumstances where youngsters should be picked in the team (EVEN IF there are old senior players who deserve a game more.) Everyone knows that older guyz who have played over 100 games are going to be more competitive that a 10 game player.

HOWEVER, when your season is shot, it is pointless to play these senior players, especially those who aren't even going to be at the club the following year.

That's why i got annoying at seeing Brown,Ward,Bizzel,Pickett Etc playing, when we could'v been blooding the kidz. Yes, Ward performed better than Garland would have...however when you're season is gone, what's the point in seeing the same garbage from your old players.

my point is, that if our season is gone by round 8-9, we shouldn't make the same mistakes we did last year. play the youngsters and push out the old players who are no longer the future.

I think your right, & last year the club, er, footy dept, stuffed up, costing us developement time, BUT MORE IMPORTANTLY a priority pick when we deserved it more than Carltank...... &&&& TWO PICKS @ THE START OF RND1 @ this YEARS DRAFT!! :angry: