How would you feel if it were us instead of North?

[Guest MFC4Life]

Its simple. Financially they have shown they cannot sustain an operation in Melbourne. They could not in the glory days of Pagan/Carey. They cant now.

The Kangas Board should be seeking to work with the AFL to build a viable financial opportunity up in the Gold Coast. So far they have sought ever measure not to move and they are heading for a tragic death wish.

Please name the posters who are sitting on their laurels. Every man and his dog knows MFC is on a financial drip feed. If anything North going north actually gives us some further breathing space to turn our house around

1. Can we sustain an operation in Melbourne?

2. Would you whole-heartedly support the AFL to build a viable fianncial opportunity up in the Gold Coast (or West Sydney) for the Melbourne Football Club?

3. I believe that there are people who take for granted the fact that our name, our age, our history and the presence of the MCC will ensure our survival regardless. North Melbourne will not be North Melbourne, they will be nothing...there will be no 'they' any more rather 'it'. those who think that the links to Arden Street would continue are delusional.

At least people are standing up and fighting!!! I guess at the end of the day you couldn't really care whether or not teams go or stay but rather if they are viable or not.

Maybe Hassa Mann was right after all...

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

1. Can we sustain an operation in Melbourne?

2. Would you whole-heartedly support the AFL to build a viable fianncial opportunity up in the Gold Coast (or West Sydney) for the Melbourne Football Club?

3. I believe that there are people who take for granted the fact that our name, our age, our history and the presence of the MCC will ensure our survival regardless. North Melbourne will not be North Melbourne, they will be nothing...there will be no 'they' any more rather 'it'. those who think that the links to Arden Street would continue are delusional.

At least people are standing up and fighting!!! I guess at the end of the day you couldn't really care whether or not teams go or stay but rather if they are viable or not.

Maybe Hassa Mann was right after all...

1. We have a significant battle on our hands. I would suggest that the future of MFC may be through the amalgam of a number of Melbourne based interests who are financial and not necessarily directly involved in AFL. I think the Club's current disposition makes it a hard go.

2. I would prefer MFC be successful in its own right. If that did not eventuate, it would depend on the outcome of new structure/environment. I dont think we will be on the Gold Coast.

3. North Melbourne aren't North Melbourne anymore. They are nothing now. Arden Street is a museum and is a legacy to another era. It offers them little for the future. They have no facilities, no financial stability, no strong heritage with any currency and a small and dwindling supporter base. MFC have similar challenges. North supporters should have been doing this fighting and standing up 20 years ago. The same should have been done by MFC supporters. Whether you survive will be primarily driven on an active supporter base.

Hassa Mann was right in that MFC would struggle financially in the future. The solution put forward was wrong.

[Guest MFC4Life]

1. We have a significant battle on our hands. I would suggest that the future of MFC may be through the amalgam of a number of Melbourne based interests who are financial and not necessarily directly involved in AFL. I think the Club's current disposition makes it a hard go.

2. I would prefer MFC be successful in its own right. If that did not eventuate, it would depend on the outcome of new structure/environment. I dont think we will be on the Gold Coast.

3. North Melbourne aren't North Melbourne anymore. They are nothing now. Arden Street is a museum and is a legacy to another era. It offers them little for the future. They have no facilities, no financial stability, no strong heritage with any currency and a small and dwindling supporter base. MFC have similar challenges. North supporters should have been doing this fighting and standing up 20 years ago. The same should have been done by MFC supporters. Whether you survive will be primarily driven on an active supporter base.

Hassa Mann was right in that MFC would struggle financially in the future. The solution put forward was wrong.

I understand you're a realist but I just cannot support this club moving anywhere. In fact the very notion of it is abhorred. I would rather this club cease to exist than to watch a vegetable like Fitzroy supporters do.

What are we? We are Melbourne? What is our spiritual home? Jolimont Terrace? Our home was pillaged years ago. What spiritual home have we? Junction Oval?, Monash University Campus?, Trinity Grounds? Sandringham? Arden Street is their spiritual home and unlike other teams I know they have always trained at the one place.

[biggestred 4,357]

i spent a significant amount of time at the southport sharks this year - talking to people who are involved in teh club.

yes its a big club. a huge club. but to be honest - its not really a footy club, its more like a country club. 3 bars, a huge [censored] bistro, and a very classy balcony overlooking their main ground (great to drink beer from).

but in terms of actual fans - footy fans not just bar fans who go there because its the only pub around - and it is (its also next to a uni, do the math) - im not sure how big they are. actually i dont think they are that big at all.

[Yencks 8]

I understand you're a realist but I just cannot support this club moving anywhere. In fact the very notion of it is abhorred. I would rather this club cease to exist than to watch a vegetable like Fitzroy supporters do.

What are we? We are Melbourne? What is our spiritual home? Jolimont Terrace? Our home was pillaged years ago. What spiritual home have we? Junction Oval?, Monash University Campus?, Trinity Grounds? Sandringham? Arden Street is their spiritual home and unlike other teams I know they have always trained at the one place.

our spiritual grounds in the next 50 years are hopefully at the Melbourne Rectangular Stadium with close links to the G

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

What would you have them do?

I would be mortified if we even contemplated relocation instead of trying to survive. I would rather this club fold than being run by the AFL and playing out of West Sydney.

I think the AFL is a disgrace. i am so sick and tired of this 'I'm an economic realist' crap.

All of you might be resting on your laurels now but for all of you who realize what 'a free market economy' is all about, NEWSFLASH!!! We're next in the firing line.

they have been playing games on the gold coast for two years now, writing has been on wall for some time now. no one involved has been seen to be doing anything publicly for this time. all these action groups started with the AFL ultimatium. Roos went to first meeting with AFL with nothing prepared and nothing to show except to ask for a time extension. unexcusable!! how long will all the hype last, how long will people who support other clubs yet bought a m/ship to help out continue to do so.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

I understand you're a realist but I just cannot support this club moving anywhere. In fact the very notion of it is abhorred. I would rather this club cease to exist than to watch a vegetable like Fitzroy supporters do.

What are we? We are Melbourne? What is our spiritual home? Jolimont Terrace? Our home was pillaged years ago. What spiritual home have we? Junction Oval?, Monash University Campus?, Trinity Grounds? Sandringham? Arden Street is their spiritual home and unlike other teams I know they have always trained at the one place.

Based on your spiritual home definition, we have never had one. Historically we were an offshoot of the MCC. The MCG is the domain of the MCC. Arden Street is a dump. North's football offices were burned down 12 months ago and they were portable classrooms.

The move for North has been on for at least 5 years. They have sat on their collective asses and dithered. This Brayshaw rally has all the common sense of the Charge of the Light Brigade.

They tried in Sydney and Canberra and it did not work and was never going to work. Firstly they were given no assistance or support with the Sydney games and the Canberra market is too small to sustain an AFL team. The Gold Coast is a different proposition. This has been coming for along time.

[beelzebub 22,257]

There's a lot to think about amongst all the hullabaloo. Much of the current dillemmas experienced by not only the Roos ( call them what yo might) , but by any of the impoverished are rooted in the "big plan' of the AFL.. its seems the tail does indeed wag the dog !!

From an AFL's perspective they really couldnt care less who is actually in the competition they are only concerned that the competitiion is healthy and burgeoning and situated well and firmly at No 1 in the country as far as footy codes go.

They are using corporate models of survival and solvency as opposed to the viewpoint of the average fan. The AFL looks upon itself as a brand. its looking at territory. Its looking at revenue streams as well as expansion opportunities. In other words its looking at its next meal. What is left behind from the last is immaterial to them. That is a casualty of the war called "business".. Demetriou could probably care less who ius actually in the league come 2025 as long as it propsers, somewhat ironic considering his football background but that in itself ought to have told the present crop of combatants what they were up agaisnt. This man is an idealist pragmatist.

Melbourne (fc) ought to use the time available , that created by the diversion of all things Kanga , to do some more work behind the scenes to further bolt this team to the foundations of this city. This may be heresy to some but if t hat involved greasing the paths that allow/casue the kangas to go north then so shal it be. All less than do well Melbourne base teams are in survival mode.

I feel for North. It cant be pleasant. I admire Brayshaw for not only feeling his passion but doing somethig abou t it. il it be succesful? I dont think so. The AFL it seems have labeled arden st folk for the alter of sacrifice. The focus is now on the Summer of the Seventeenth team !! The AFL is looking to sow seeds into the fastest growing region and really why wouldnt it. If it didnt we would accuse it of lack of foresight.

Some might proffer that the Sharks arent a club in our mode. So ?? They are profitable. They are secure. They understand their memebrs and their needs/wants etc. They....are solvent !! The real era of the impassioned baracker turning up week in week out providing the basis of all things footy has long gone. The sport is financed by media which caters , by very definition , to the couch potato crowds, to the transient interest , to the advertising dollar. Fall prey to the romantic ideal of football following at your clubs peril. The smart club will embrace revenue streams at all possibilities even those that irk and seemingly disadvantage the fan in the outer.

A 17th team is posturing at worst by the AFL , is forward thinking at its best. North have been fools and their folly may have more than one casualty. Footscray ( call them what you like ) are now on notice. You dont hink that was an accidental throw away line by AD about a Western Sydney side ?? They would do well to heed that advance warning.

I can only hope that messrs Gardner and co are just a little more than uncomfortable at present.. ( [censored] scared would actually be better) I hope they see this as classic warning...this IS the writing on the wall !!

I really hope our club has a plan B..( and C through Z ) as the machine called AFL is only concerned that its working.. not who comprises it !!.

North will roo its decision !!

[Oxxx 0]

There is no way that 12 clubs will grant a liscence for a 17th team, particularly when 10 out of 16 clubs are Victorian. As much as there are rivalries etc in the game, no Victorian club wants to see another one leave and they will all vote against it.

The most realistic solution that I reckon will happen is that 2 Victorian clubs will be forced to merge, or the Kangaroos will go broke and be forced to move up to the Gold Coast.

[demonfanjezza 1]

There is no way that 12 clubs will grant a liscence for a 17th team, particularly when 10 out of 16 clubs are Victorian. As much as there are rivalries etc in the game, no Victorian club wants to see another one leave and they will all vote against it.

The most realistic solution that I reckon will happen is that 2 Victorian clubs will be forced to merge, or the Kangaroos will go broke and be forced to move up to the Gold Coast.

Hard to agree against those points.

[furious d 447]

I would much rather relocate than fold.

My mothers family has a large committed South Melbourne background and they celebrated the swans flag as long ang hard as I intend to celebrate ours this year

This is not a Fitzroy situation, it's more like South. Relocation is different to being swallowed whole.

Make no mistake, if North fold in the future the same fans hailing Brayshaw now will be baying for his blood. AND RIGHTLY SO!

The difference between us and North is they've had success and still remain a basketcase, our finances are not as parlous, sans success. Personally I think we could be a premiership or two from reeinvigorating a latent supporter base. I could be wrong but I still remember the drought breaking finals of 87. 90,000+ at the "g", 80,000 dees fans, plenty of them young.

The AFL's offer was very tempting and they needed it to happen quick. If they ceded to the request for another year it would have been a festering sore till next post season, and completely unacceptable (would have taken attention away from OUR 150th).

I've always admired North's spirit and wish them well, but can't help feeling they've risked death here. Surely they've shot themselves in the foot as far as their few games up there each year. Will we have to see out their contract for them, like in Canberra last year. If we do it will be the last straw for me and all sympathy for their plight will be lost.

As for the future, within 15, probably 10 years only 10 clubs will survive in melbourne. Within 30, probably 20 years it's unlikely more than 8 clubs will survive here. We certainly can't afford another 40 years like the last. If you know any dees fans who aren't members, get up 'em. If you have any young relatives, let the brainwashing begin, bribery is completely acceptable (already started on my 1 year old neice).

I've lived overseas for extended periods, in places where results were hard to come by (pre internet for you young folk). My interest, desire, love, passion and emotion for this club never waned in the slightest. Those saying they would rather cease to exist than relocate are not truly considering the consequences. Who would you support? What would you do with your winter? I'd love the Broome Demons, or the Upper Congupna West Demons for that matter, till the day I die before I'd ever consider another club.

We still have time, but not a lot. North and Western have positioned themselves for relocation by adopting those non specific titles, but Brayshaw and co stepped in to thwart it (last season). We have positioned ourselves to remain in Melbourne (thankfully), which shows our board is up for the fight. Hawthorn, St. Kilda, Us and to a lesser extent Richmond (if they continue as the basketcase they've been for 20 years they'll be in trouble soon) will be fighting to be the other 2 surviving clubs. Despite Kennet's arrogance I believe we are better placed than the Hobart hawks. That leaves a race between us, the saints and the tiges for success.

[george_on_the_outer 7,016]

North have shot themselves in the foot.

Brayshaws plan is nothing more than P...and Wind, and the fans have fallen for it.

New sponsors...have added $300K to bottom line.

5 white knights....as if?

What about the $5M debt.......

And only 2500 turn up at Dallas Brooks. Even our club had a lock out on the night and filled both top and bottom auditoriums.

Danger for us is a re-run of the Fitzroy saga. When North finally go broke and they are seeking to do anything other than relocate, up will pop the merger proposal......guess who with?

[Yencks 8]

My mothers family has a large committed South Melbourne background and they celebrated the swans flag as long ang hard as I intend to celebrate ours this year

we finished 14th this year

[been44years! 0]

we finished 14th this year

To be brutally honest I'd feel disgraceful but unfortunately the reality of the situation is melbourne cannot sustain the amount of clubs it has.. Its pretty obvious we have been struggling financially for a long time and regrettably footy is a business these days rather than based on emotion.. Seriously, how can we compete off-field with clubs like Essendon and Collingwood whose turnover is $50M a year plus, the only real solution is to merge clubs in Melbourne and keep strugglers like the kangas, dogs, saints, hawks and us alive.. I'd much rather see us survive than go to the wall which will happen if we continue to ignore the warning signs being displayed by the kangas right now!

I live on the gold coast and can't believe the panic stations adopted by the afl to establish another team up here, I'd be surprised if the rugby league team here draws big crowds after next season (new stadium) as the gold coast market has proved very fickle in attendances for both major codes until now.. However, if the afl is hellbent on a team up here surely they would look towards a local product like the southport sharks and let the melbourne sides decide their own futures down there.. Southport already makes more money than the kangas and only needs a stadium upgrade and some draft concessions to be competitive within a couple of years to be successful..

Long live the mighty dees!! Use your wallets more than your hearts and we will survive! GO US '08.....

[mo64 5,218]

.. Southport already makes more money than the kangas and only needs a stadium upgrade and some draft concessions to be competitive within a couple of years to be successful..

Yes, the Southport club 'turns over' more money than North Melbourne, but it does this regardless of the Southport Sharks football club. You may as well say that the BHP Billiton staff darts team makes more money than the Kangaroos!!!

A more relevant comparison is the financial position of the Brisbane Lions. During their premiership years, they were still making a loss, when membership and crowd attendances were at their highest. They're are now making a small profit, but their crowd and membership numbers are relatively poor. Their Melbourne based (Old Fitzroy) membership has dropped from 7k to 3k. Do you really expect old North supporters to continue being members if they move to the Gold Coast?

When you compare the population and demographics of Brisbane and the Gold Coast, why are people so certain that the Gold Coast can be a viable entity, without long term AFL support. And with long term AFL support, the weak clubs become weaker!

[been44years! 0]

Yes, the Southport club 'turns over' more money than North Melbourne, but it does this regardless of the Southport Sharks football club. You may as well say that the BHP Billiton staff darts team makes more money than the Kangaroos!!!

A more relevant comparison is the financial position of the Brisbane Lions. During their premiership years, they were still making a loss, when membership and crowd attendances were at their highest. They're are now making a small profit, but their crowd and membership numbers are relatively poor. Their Melbourne based (Old Fitzroy) membership has dropped from 7k to 3k. Do you really expect old North supporters to continue being members if they move to the Gold Coast?

When you compare the population and demographics of Brisbane and the Gold Coast, why are people so certain that the Gold Coast can be a viable entity, without long term AFL support. And with long term AFL support, the weak clubs become weaker!

I'm not quite sure what you mean mo64, the southport club 'turns over' more money that North BECAUSE of the southport sharks football club doesn't it?? If the sharks club wasn't there surely these people would go to another AFL club on the coast to spend their money!! And I'd love to be part of the BHP Billiton staff darts team if it makes more money than the Kangas!! I agree with your point about the Brisbane Lions, they have the lowest membership of all clubs in the AFL and I further emphasise my point that I DO NOT expect North supporters to continue being members if they move to the Gold Coast..

Also, I am not so certain that the Gold Coast can be a viable entity as I said before but surely a local team will be better prepared with AFL support than an unwanted move by a Melbourne club??

Not so sure again by the weak clubs becoming weaker, aren't they becoming weaker anyways right now trying to compete with the major clubs in Melbourne?? The Kangas are stuggling so are we, the dogs are next, followed by the hanging on tiges, hawks and saints...

[mo64 5,218]

I'm not quite sure what you mean mo64, the southport club 'turns over' more money that North BECAUSE of the southport sharks football club doesn't it?? If the sharks club wasn't there surely these people would go to another AFL club on the coast to spend their money!! And I'd love to be part of the BHP Billiton staff darts team if it makes more money than the Kangas!! I agree with your point about the Brisbane Lions, they have the lowest membership of all clubs in the AFL and I further emphasise my point that I DO NOT expect North supporters to continue being members if they move to the Gold Coast..

Also, I am not so certain that the Gold Coast can be a viable entity as I said before but surely a local team will be better prepared with AFL support than an unwanted move by a Melbourne club??

Not so sure again by the weak clubs becoming weaker, aren't they becoming weaker anyways right now trying to compete with the major clubs in Melbourne?? The Kangas are stuggling so are we, the dogs are next, followed by the hanging on tiges, hawks and saints...

'been44years', people aren't attracted to the Southport club by the football club. If there was a golf or bowling club attached to the complex, they'd still maintain their turnover.

It's just like the NRL Leagues clubs, which were the lifeline of the Sydney rugby league clubs in the past. The popularity of the Leagues Clubs didn't translate into support for the rugby league teams. South Sydney and St. George are prime examples.

Hence it's folly to compare the turnover of the Southport club with that of North Melbourne.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Hence it's folly to compare the turnover of the Southport club with that of North Melbourne.

No It isnt. It merely shows up the financial basket case that is North Melbourne.

There are a number of Melbourne based AFL Clubs that derive some of their revenue from poker machines. Cartelton and Melbourne being 2 such clubs. The history and licensing of gameing machines in Sydney and Queensland is different to Victoria and the ability to generate strong cash flows and a viable and supported enterprise should not be seen as a detriment to another interstate club.

What it shows is that Southport has financially robust means besides an AFL drip feed to operate.

Clearly Southport will need some AFL support in the areas of promotion and infrastructure over a number of years.

The only folly has been the perpetual sitting on of hands by various Kangaroos directors as their Club has withered away.

[Gouga 512]

I would hope we would not screw ourselves like the Kangas are doing at the moment.

All the emotional spirit of the Fitzroy rearguard without the necessary reality!

From that we can gather if it was us, the MELBOURNE Football Club, we'd be on our way to the Gold Coast? Is all well and good to say The Kangaroos should have taken the offer (I believe they should have also), but the point of the thread is what if it was us?

Rhino, are you saying you'd go and not stay and fight?

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

From that we can gather if it was us, the MELBOURNE Football Club, we'd be on our way to the Gold Coast? Is all well and good to say The Kangaroos should have taken the offer (I believe they should have also), but the point of the thread is what if it was us?

Rhino, are you saying you'd go and not stay and fight?

I'd prefer MFC was able to sustain itself financially here.

If not it would depend upon the financial predicament we were in and the terms and conditions of the offer made to relocate.

If it is the North Melbourne situation, to stay and fight is a death sentence.

From what I have seen from history, I would rather be a Sydney Swans supporter than a Fitzroy supporter.

[mo64 5,218]

No It isnt. It merely shows up the financial basket case that is North Melbourne.

There are a number of Melbourne based AFL Clubs that derive some of their revenue from poker machines. Cartelton and Melbourne being 2 such clubs. The history and licensing of gameing machines in Sydney and Queensland is different to Victoria and the ability to generate strong cash flows and a viable and supported enterprise should not be seen as a detriment to another interstate club.

What it shows is that Southport has financially robust means besides an AFL drip feed to operate.

Clearly Southport will need some AFL support in the areas of promotion and infrastructure over a number of years.

The only folly has been the perpetual sitting on of hands by various Kangaroos directors as their Club has withered away.

Rhino, do you fail to grasp the difference between turnover and bottom line profit? Because it's the bottom line profit derived from the sporting club that would be required to prop up the football club. They would be trading as separate entities. Gaming revenue is little more than a 2nd tier sponsor for the AFL clubs.

History shows that gaming revenue was not enough to sustain Sydney rugby league clubs. Many folded or merged.

I see North Melbourne being in the same position as the Hawks were in 1996. It took the threat of a merger to wake it from it's slumber. North should be given this opportunity, because if it moves to the Gold Coast, it's identity will be lost.

I would hope that we would also have the opportunity to explore every avenue to survive in Melbourne, if or when we are in the same situation as North.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Rhino, do you fail to grasp the difference between turnover and bottom line profit? Because it's the bottom line profit derived from the sporting club that would be required to prop up the football club. They would be trading as separate entities. Gaming revenue is little more than a 2nd tier sponsor for the AFL clubs.

History shows that gaming revenue was not enough to sustain Sydney rugby league clubs. Many folded or merged.

I see North Melbourne being in the same position as the Hawks were in 1996. It took the threat of a merger to wake it from it's slumber. North should be given this opportunity, because if it moves to the Gold Coast, it's identity will be lost.

I would hope that we would also have the opportunity to explore every avenue to survive in Melbourne, if or when we are in the same situation as North.

I fully understand the difference.

The trnasition of the Kangas to GC will need to involve an amalgam between the Sharks and the brand of the Kangas. The Sharks are a highly profitable operation with strong local support. There is a viable basis to build an AFL side there. Gaming revenue will be an important in the future of a GC Club.

There are many well run Sydney league clubs that earn substantial profits form their operations. Those that have failed did so through incompetence or the hatchet decisions by New Corp.

North are nowhere near the Hawks situation. The Kangas have been poking around interstate for 8 years and done nothing. Surely they could not be that dumb. They have had every opportunity and have explored a number of avenues and cant cut it on there own going forward.

The Hawks were in a situation they were in due to incompetent and conflicted commitments to capital works on a leasehold property. Its negligently handled and they were temporarily cash strapped. They still had a good membership list with strong brand profile. North have neither. Nevertheless dont believe the smokescreens, the Hawks are not travelling as smoothly as Kennett proclaims. They are like any other Vic Club.

BTW, it not a matter of if but when with MFC the way it is heading!

[Little Goffy 12,722]

BTW, it not a matter of if but when with MFC the way it is heading!

Uhhh... why is that?

Interestingly, each of the last three years has been below expectations in progress, but at the same time progress has been made every year. Some years better than others

I'll underline it -

Each year the Melbourne football club is finishing in a better financial position than when it started.

We can want more, we can be angry about waste, we can be frustrated by lack of action, but we can also be confident that we're not going to fall in on ourselves, either.

[Gouga 512]

If it is the North Melbourne situation, to stay and fight is a death sentence.

I'll take that as a yes.

Let's hope it is never us. I dare say put in the same position our members would vote the way you're thinking. As tragic as it would be.

[Rhino Richards 1,467]

Let's hope it is never us. I dare say put in the same position our members would vote the way you're thinking. As tragic as it would be.

Unless we have some sustained bumper years you will have to do more than hope.

I think it is doubtful that MFC will survive in its existing structure in 10 years.

To me Fitzroy was tragic.. And the Kangas is a tragedy waiting to happen.