4 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Happy for May to go as long as we keep T Mac.

May's game on the weekend was one of the poorest MFC's performances I've seen from a senior player in recent years.

And his game before that he allowed a woefully out of form Charlie Curnow to kick 2 quick first quarter goals to set the tone for Carlton.

Played 15 games this year and winning the reverse Coleman for most goals kicked against him. He has dropped off pretty badly. If this is sign of what is to come, I would let him go also.

7 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Happy for May to go as long as we keep T Mac.

May's game on the weekend was one of the poorest MFC's performances I've seen from a senior player in recent years.

And his game before that he allowed a woefully out of form Charlie Curnow to kick 2 quick first quarter goals to set the tone for Carlton.

Agree, May was bordering on a liability. Looks cooked. Makes me wonder why they played him.

Just now, binman said:

Agree, May was bordering on a liability. Looks cooked. Makes me wonder why they played him.

My guess is they wanted to get him to his 250th, which is fair enough.

He is still a decent defender, but without Lever there to help cover the hole, he has no speed left off the mark to be able to compete with the fast breaking forwards. And he can't bend down either.

2026 will definitely be his last in the AFL.

7 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

My guess is they wanted to get him to his 250th, which is fair enough.

He is still a decent defender, but without Lever there to help cover the hole, he has no speed left off the mark to be able to compete with the fast breaking forwards. And he can't bend down either.

2026 will definitely be his last in the AFL.

Fair call on the 250th, hadn't considered that.

Doesn't explain why they kept him on Gunston so long. Bloody Goody, so stubborn- wait a minute.....

Edited August 18Aug 18 by binman

I’ve mulling over this game and I have to say we are in a world of pain. We were pathetic. Disposal putrid. No fluency whatsoever. Trac and clarry zero impact.

Apart from a few decent youngsters we basically have to start from scratch. How did we stuff things up so badly?

Good luck whoever the new coach is.

I agree on the skills and structures, but we need to be honest and say the main reason that wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots.

21 hours ago, binman said:

Before the Roos-Goody era that game was the perfect recipie for a 10 plus goal blow out -

Personally, watching the game i thought after quarter our effort and spirit was good (and our effort was reasonable in the first quarter- it was more that our skills were terrible and our defensivestructures were a mess) and kudos to the boys for playing the game right out and never dropping their head.

The stats - support my sesnse watching the game that our effort was good (and that the Hawks didn't drop their effort all game)

2 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

I agree on the skills and structures, but we need to be honest and say the main reason that wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots.

Total, absolute rot. Confirmation bias on steroids.

In fact the opposite is true - if not for OUR inaccuracy the margin would have been under 5 goals.

Expected scores

	xScore	Score	xWin %	xMargin	Margin	Swing
Melbourne	65.2	56	5%
Hawthorn	93.5	92	95%	+28.2

The margin probably could have been as low as 3 goals given Sharp missed a couple of goals in the last quarter that a half forward flankers is paid to do and Gawn missed his 35th elementary set shot for the year.

If Harry Sharp isn't nailing his goals, I'm not sure what else he's bringing to the table??

57 minutes ago, binman said:

Total, absolute rot. Confirmation bias on steroids.

In fact the opposite is true - if not for OUR inaccuracy the margin would have been under 5 goals.

Expected scores

	xScore	Score	xWin %	xMargin	Margin	Swing
Melbourne	65.2	56	5%
Hawthorn	93.5	92	95%	+28.2

A possible 5 goal loss hardly fills me with any confidence nor gives me any joy. Nor does the 3 goal loss given our score fest at the end.

49 minutes ago, binman said:

Total, absolute rot. Confirmation bias on steroids.

In fact the opposite is true - if not for OUR inaccuracy the margin would have been under 5 goals.

Expected scores

	xScore	Score	xWin %	xMargin	Margin	Swing
Melbourne	65.2	56	5%
Hawthorn	93.5	92	95%	+28.2

Discounting total misses or shots that fell short we both had almost exactly 50% goals to behinds.

In an ideal world where both teams had scored all theirs it would be 162 to 96 or a 10 goal loss.

These figures include nine fourth quarter scores after the contest was done which amounted to junk time goals and a semblance of respectability.

So at three quarter time they were already six goals ahead and they let us get four back to save our embarrassment.

The stats obsession is mad, but if you're going to make that argument at least be fair and consider it up until 3/4 time when the game was beyond doubt for Hawthorn. The stats that count are the scoreboard and the final tally so I've posted that here.

Most fans can honestly and reluctantly admit that was an awful spectacle. We were nowhere near them and after five minutes we were never going to win that game.

Edited August 18Aug 18 by Hellfire Dub

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

The margin probably could have been as low as 3 goals given Sharp missed a couple of goals in the last quarter that a half forward flankers is paid to do and Gawn missed his 35th elementary set shot for the year.

If Harry Sharp isn't nailing his goals, I'm not sure what else he's bringing to the table??

To be blunt... nothing

58 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

A possible 5 goal loss hardly fills me with any confidence nor gives me any joy. Nor does the 3 goal loss given our score fest at the end.

Sure, though i seriously don't know what people expected given where both teams are currently at (i mean the line was 22 points so the market assessed the gap between the teams as nearly 4 goals).

But, i wasn't arguing we should be filled with confidence or joy about the result - i was making the point the statement 'we need to be honest and say the main reason that wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots' is complete and utter rot.

I mean it's simply not true - and there is an actual measure to evidence that it's a load of cobblers.

The Hawks actual score was 92 against an expected score of 93.5 - which indicates the Hawks were almost bang on for average AFL accuracy.

Our actual score was 56 against an expected score of 65.2 - which indicates we were once again below average AFL accuracy, a problem that has plagued us since 2022.

(I'm not going to bother defending expected score as stat except to say it measures the AFL average for each shot on goal taken from that spot going back i think 20 years and has a hell of lot more rigour than the vibe test that leads someone to argue it wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots).

Edited August 19Aug 19 by binman

1 hour ago, Lucifers Hero said:

A possible 5 goal loss hardly fills me with any confidence nor gives me any joy. Nor does the 3 goal loss given our score fest at the end.

Yes there is a lot of work to do but I believe, as much as it makes me feel ill, we were taken apart by this years likely Premiers in top form!

2 hours ago, Hellfire Dub said:

Discounting total misses or shots that fell short we both had almost exactly 50% goals to behinds.

In an ideal world where both teams had scored all theirs it would be 162 to 96 or a 10 goal loss.

These figures include nine fourth quarter scores after the contest was done which amounted to junk time goals and a semblance of respectability.

So at three quarter time they were already six goals ahead and they let us get four back to save our embarrassment.

The stats obsession is mad, but if you're going to make that argument at least be fair and consider it up until 3/4 time when the game was beyond doubt for Hawthorn. The stats that count are the scoreboard and the final tally so I've posted that here.

Most fans can honestly and reluctantly admit that was an awful spectacle. We were nowhere near them and after five minutes we were never going to win that game.

Yeah I tend to agree that it's when the inaccuracy happens in a game. Hawthorn missed a lot of great chances in the first half and led 7.7 to 2.3. I did think that they could easily have been 7 or 8 goals up and then it's a different game yet again.

We did miss some chances ourselves but I do think the end margin should probably have been another goal or two the way of the Hawks.

I know Garry Lyon's most valuable player on AFL 360 (best 3 players across the entire round) isn't the be all/end all of awards and talking points but I feel like an opposition player always features in his weekly 3-2-1 votes without fail.

Greene, Dangerfield, Rankine, NAS, Gunston, Richards, Rowell....the list goes on.

The point being that most weeks we've had a player that absolutely dominates us whether it be in the midfield or a player kicking monster bags on us. This just didn't happen much before this year.

On 18/08/2025 at 14:04, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Happy for May to go as long as we keep T Mac.

May's game on the weekend was one of the poorest MFC's performances I've seen from a senior player in recent years.

And his game before that he allowed a woefully out of form Charlie Curnow to kick 2 quick first quarter goals to set the tone for Carlton.

Couldn't agree more.

He's had some shockers over last two seasons but this was taking the p15s. Sometimes giving Gunston 20 metres of space.

May is someone I would never accuse of this, but he legitimately looked like he didn't want to be there.

His best is behind him, whether he can still be of some value to the new coach remains to be seen but he's no longer box office.

8 hours ago, binman said:

Sure, though i seriously don't know what people expected given where both teams are currently at (i mean the line was 22 points so the market assessed the gap between the teams as nearly 4 goals).

But, i wasn't arguing we should be filled with confidence or joy about the result - i was making the point the statement 'we need to be honest and say the main reason that wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots' is complete and utter rot.

I mean it's simply not true - and there is an actual measure to evidence that it's a load of cobblers.

The Hawks actual score was 92 against an expected score of 93.5 - which indicates the Hawks were almost bang on for average AFL accuracy.

Our actual score was 56 against an expected score of 65.2 - which indicates we were once again below average AFL accuracy, a problem that has plagued us since 2022.

(I'm not going to bother defending expected score as stat except to say it measures the AFL average for each shot on goal taken from that spot going back i think 20 years and has a hell of lot more rigour than the vibe test that leads someone to argue it wasn't a 10 plus goal blowout was because the Hawks missed so many gettable shots).

It's not a vibe test and the proximity to the line and expected score is because of late goals when the Hawks backed off. We got 4 in the last quarter to match our 4 from the first three quarters.

23 minutes into the fourth quarter they were 13 goals to 5. Roughly 8 goals ahead.

That's what I'm referring to. If they'd kept their momentum they could have made the century or so and won by 10 goals.

We were nowhere near and it could have been a hammering. It's admirable that it wasn't but at that point late in the fourth Hawks had 27 scoring shots to our 11. It ended up being 27 scores to 16.

I know what game I was watching and it was one of the most boring ones I've endured. We rarely looked like scoring for the first three quarters.

On 18/08/2025 at 15:13, BDA said:

I’ve mulling over this game and I have to say we are in a world of pain. We were pathetic. Disposal putrid. No fluency whatsoever. Trac and clarry zero impact.

Apart from a few decent youngsters we basically have to start from scratch. How did we stuff things up so badly?

Good luck whoever the new coach is.

39 minutes ago, Hellfire Dub said:

It's not a vibe test and the proximity to the line and expected score is because of late goals when the Hawks backed off. We got 4 in the last quarter to match our 4 from the first three quarters.

23 minutes into the fourth quarter they were 13 goals to 5. Roughly 8 goals ahead.

That's what I'm referring to. If they'd kept their momentum they could have made the century or so and won by 10 goals.

We were nowhere near and it could have been a hammering. It's admirable that it wasn't but at that point late in the fourth Hawks had 27 scoring shots to our 11. It ended up being 27 scores to 16.

I know what game I was watching and it was one of the most boring ones I've endured. We rarely looked like scoring for the first three quarters.

Have you forgotten that a couple of weeks ago we gave the bullies a big fright and played an EXCELLENT standard of football as did the WB? We have what it takes. Just wait till we get our new coach and assistants.

You need to have more faith in our young, developing team.

Happy to trade May for a packet of BBQ riba flavoured chips.

I know Gunston is now slouch but my god that was a diabolical performance by May.. like would it actually hurt to just stand beside him and actually defend?

Anyhow, happy to get games into Adams next year alongside Petty and Turner.

16 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Happy to trade May for a packet of BBQ riba flavoured chips.

I know Gunston is now slouch but my god that was a diabolical performance by May.. like would it actually hurt to just stand beside him and actually defend?

Anyhow, happy to get games into Adams next year alongside Petty and Turner.

I wouldn’t trade him out for anything less than a packet of salt and vinegar chips.

3 minutes ago, ANG13 said:

I wouldn’t trade him out for anything less than a packet of salt and vinegar chips.

Now you're being silly...

2 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie 2 said:

Have you forgotten that a couple of weeks ago we gave the bullies a big fright and played an EXCELLENT standard of football as did the WB? We have what it takes. Just wait till we get our new coach and assistants.

You need to have more faith in our young, developing team.

I agree, I really enjoyed watching us against the Dogs and I think we're capable of way better than our game against the Hawks. Our level is much better than that

14 hours ago, Bobby McKenzie 2 said:

Have you forgotten that a couple of weeks ago we gave the bullies a big fright and played an EXCELLENT standard of football as did the WB? We have what it takes. Just wait till we get our new coach and assistants.

You need to have more faith in our young, developing team.

The Bulldogs game wasn't a high standard, yes it was more free flowing but the Bulldogs are poor at defending. Our disposal in that game was god awful as well (especially the first half).

Seems Bruest ran on the field at half time before petty kicked .no 50 m penalty for interchange stuff up

On 18/08/2025 at 09:39, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Fritta saves his best for Hawthorn:

Round 9 - 4 disposals/0 marks/0 goals

Round 23 - 8 disposals/1 mark/0 goals/0 score involvements.

How is it possible that a forward can literally have not one involvement in a score for the entire game?

Not helped by the awful structures that meant Hawthorn had an extra player in defence all quarter. This was rectified a little bit but for the rest of the game but our predictable attacks meant that our target was always outmanned/ It was a bit perplexing