8 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

It’s a bit of a reach but if you count Kelly’s last two playing years as coaching - which was a big part of what he was at Essendon to do - he’s been in a somewhat coaching role since 2016.

Played under Bomber and Scott, coached under Worsfold, Rutten (for a preseason before going F this, I’m going to be a dad for a season) and Scott.

To me it’s enough experience, the only thing you’d love would be if he coaches his own side but with the nature of the afl system plenty of good coaches never do.

Sounds too good, doesn’t he? Maybe a little over zealous.

The "Maitre de" type.

3 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

did this require its own thread?

Did this require its own post

1 hour ago, Tim said:

We’ve been there, done that. Mark Neeld.

Luckily we survived that misadventure.

Neeld failed because of personality, but the club and list was screwed regardless. Needed a full clean out to rebuild the rebuild. Neeld did us a favour

3 hours ago, Oxdee said:

Scott never finished top 4… poor decision by Essendon

When you balance the Marvel Club handicap of basically not having a genuine home ground vs Collingwood benefits of 17 games at the G they’re roughly equal

4 hours ago, Engorged Onion said:

did this require its own thread?

Answer.... No

17 hours ago, rufus said:

I also have a good feeling about Kelly. I am hoping it is him. Outside of Buckley the other candidates just worry me. Not 100% sure why.

Because ruckmen never make good coaches and Gia is too much of a Mr Nice Guy

Edited 3 hours ago3 hr by Dr. Gonzo

14 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

The entire cats culture has been built around respecting opposition, being yourself and being selfless on and off the field. I think a Kelly/bartel double has the potential to transform the club. It would be a risk, especially if Buckley is keen. But if we make that call I won’t be unhappy

This is my preference now, Kelly/Bartel. I think back to 2021 and Collingwood going Macrae while the Blues went Voss. Neither went Lyon which was the right call.

I won't be upset if it's Buckley but will feel we missed a trick passing on Kelly.

14 hours ago, Adam The God said:

Lol, what's funny is that Kelly doesn't meet the 8+ years of experience the CEO and panel have said they allegedly want.

He was an assistant at Essendon for the 2018-2020 seasons and at Geelong for the 2022-2025 seasons.

Why 8, it's just an arbitrary number. If it was a hard and fast cutoff then they wouldn't have wasted time interviewing him but I agree, it makes the call look silly.

13 hours ago, kurtneverdied said:

Yeah I'm a bit wary of picking someone because they interviewed well. I think we should of been already 95% sure on who we'd pick before interviews. It's not like we have no idea who they are and what they have done unlike the common workplace interviews.

We picked Goodwin because he interviewed well, turned out ok.

If you're not basing it on interviews then what are you basing it on/why bother having them??

You get the feeling Buckley is already signed up and the rest is just a pretend [censored] show that is obvious to most. That is why the candidates keep pulling out.

14 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why 8, it's just an arbitrary number. If it was a hard and fast cutoff then they wouldn't have wasted time interviewing him but I agree, it makes the call look silly.

No different to any other job ad. They're a wish list, not a requirement.

15 hours ago, Ted Lasso said:

The entire cats culture has been built around respecting opposition, being yourself and being selfless on and off the field. I think a Kelly/bartel double has the potential to transform the club. It would be a risk, especially if Buckley is keen. But if we make that call I won’t be unhappy

Selfless the opposite to FIGJAM

I think it’s a valid thread. I’ve often thought how few examples of success there are from head coaches in their 2nd or 3rd tenures.

Wallace, Eade at GC, Malthouse, Pagan, Voss, Lyon and Scott were all seen as a safe pair of hands but were largely unsuccessful. Jury is still out on Clarkson.

On the other hand, you have Hardwick, who appears to have bucked the trend, and of course Roos, who laid some very solid cultural foundations at Melbourne. I struggle to think of many other examples of success recently.

I don’t know why that is. Does the game change too quickly and coaches become set in their ways? Or are they expected to come in and cover a multitude of shortcomings within the entire organisation.

5 minutes ago, wisedog said:

I think it’s a valid thread. I’ve often thought how few examples of success there are from head coaches in their 2nd or 3rd tenures.

Wallace, Eade at GC, Malthouse, Pagan, Voss, Lyon and Scott were all seen as a safe pair of hands but were largely unsuccessful. Jury is still out on Clarkson.

On the other hand, you have Hardwick, who appears to have bucked the trend, and of course Roos, who laid some very solid cultural foundations at Melbourne. I struggle to think of many other examples of success recently.

I don’t know why that is. Does the game change too quickly and coaches become set in their ways? Or are they expected to come in and cover a multitude of shortcomings within the entire organisation.

Parkin and Walls

14 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

Parkin and Walls

Yes, and Malthouse at West Coast (and later Collingwood). But post-2000, I can only really think of Eade at the Bulldogs whose tenure would be regarded as a success.

2 hours ago, Young Blood said:

None of us really have any idea about who would make the best coach. It’s just that I and a few others think its probably Buckley. 😂

15 minutes ago, wisedog said:

Yes, and Malthouse at West Coast (and later Collingwood). But post-2000, I can only really think of Eade at the Bulldogs whose tenure would be regarded as a success.

Leigh Matthew’s says hello!

Matthew’s has 3

Malthouse 1

---

Williams

Worsfold

Roos

Clarkson X 4

Hardwick X 3 (going ok at Suns)

Goodwin the best flag

Thompson 2

Longmire

Beveridge

Simpson

Scott 2

McRae

Fagan

How many experienced coaches have been appointed in that time vs newbies!

Can Bucks get us an extra 5 or 6 wins next year to be in wild card contention?

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by Bring-Back-Powell

2 hours ago, demon36 said:

My Pies tragic friend says absolutelty steer clear of Buckley.

I love your left field (maybe) thinking being a big fan of Bartel's thinking. Its the whole package . Kelly/Bartel plus others? Whats wrong with that. Guerra has already cleverly signalled he doesn't know what he doesn't know publicly, and what better way to strengthen the footy IQ than bring in Jimmy as well.

Buckley reeks of the old messiah fix - e.g Ronald dale in 1981, Carl before that. etc.

Amazing test for new president and team IMO.

BTW - I HATE the cats but can live with this.

PS Ron was the messiah at Carlton, Carl the naughty boy.

7 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Matthew’s has 3

Malthouse 1

---

Williams

Worsfold

Roos

Clarkson X 4

Hardwick X 3 (going ok at Suns)

Goodwin the best flag

Thompson 2

Longmire

Beveridge

Simpson

Scott 2

McRae

Fagan

How many experienced coaches have been appointed in that time vs newbies!

Alan Jeans X 3.

15 minutes ago, D4Life said:

Matthew’s has 3

Malthouse 1

---

Williams

Worsfold

Roos

Clarkson X 4

Hardwick X 3 (going ok at Suns)

Goodwin the best flag

Thompson 2

Longmire

Beveridge

Simpson

Scott 2

McRae

Fagan

How many experienced coaches have been appointed in that time vs newbies!

First time coaches are overwhelmingly the more popular appointment.

41 minutes ago, wisedog said:

Yes, and Malthouse at West Coast (and later Collingwood). But post-2000, I can only really think of Eade at the Bulldogs whose tenure would be regarded as a success.

Ross Lyon got Freo to their first GF. Hardwick has finally cracked the finals for the Suns. Voss got Carlton to their first prelim in 20 years.

1 minute ago, KozzyCan said:

Ross Lyon got Freo to their first GF. Hardwick has finally cracked the finals for the Suns. Voss got Carlton to their first prelim in 20 years.

I did mention Hardwick in my first post. Whether you view Lyon’s tenure at Freo as a success and Voss at Carlton is a matter of opinion. However, those records are certainly achievements.

And yes, I understand new coaches are overwhelming appointed. The point I’m making is that returning coaches are often seen as the leaders who will replicate the success they have previously enjoyed - but that rarely seems to be the case.

Edited 1 hour ago1 hr by wisedog

19 of the last 20 premierships have been won by first time coaches

2 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why 8, it's just an arbitrary number. If it was a hard and fast cutoff then they wouldn't have wasted time interviewing him but I agree, it makes the call look silly.

Yeah, that was always my point. Why set such an arbitrary number when the best coach could have 6 or 7 years experience?

As it turns out, Kelly has, at best, 7 years coaching experience.

Anyway, I think Buckley will be announced next week.

Just now, wisedog said:

I made mention of Hardwick in my first post. Whether you view Lyon’s tenure at Freo as a success and Voss at Carlton is a matter of opinion. However, those records are certainly achievements.

And yes, I understand new coaches are overwhelming appointed. The point I’m making is that returning coaches are often seen as the leaders who will replicate the success they have previously enjoyed - but that rarely seems to be the case.

So to elaborate on Hardwick, he came in off the back of Guy McKenna (first time), Rodney Eade (third time), and Stewart Dew (first time). You also mentioned Roos who didn't win anything for us but was the exact right appointment for us in that moment.

I would absolutely say that Lyon was a success at freo. He is the most successful coach in their history to date. Making prelims and Grand Finals is not an easy job. He was also the only coach they've ever had who had coached an AFL team prior.

People may laugh when I say Voss but Carlton had been anchored to the bottom of the ladder for a decade when he arrived.

The point is, these guys all moved the needle in a positive direction even if they haven't yet got the ultimate.

Any coach, whether they are first timers or returning, need to be the right fit for the club and be given the suppport structure to succeed.

The first timer vs returning coach debate is too shallow. There are just so many other tangible variables that are more important than a statistical anomaly around recent premiership coaches. It shouldn't be a consideration in our hiring process.