I hate having a go at any one player, but for the love of god can Fritsch stop smiling and joking after missing gimme set shots? Every other player is filthy with themselves and he thinks it’s a joke.

This attitude should never be rewarded.

Oh, and I'd be trying JVR as a CHB, which will release Turner, who is going to be a very good player at either end of the ground, to play forward alongside Petty. I'd then play Petty as second ruck.

25 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Elaborate??

Well I was going to try and be clever and relate it to “The Journey” but decided the most flagrantly bad umpiring decision I’ve seen in 50 years said it all. Not why we lost obviously but I truly can’t understand the umpiring.

7.14 and 7 goals from 48 entries won't win you anything

As I said in the match day thread, the only way the Kozzy trip non-free can happen is if the multiple umpires in the vicinity weren’t watching the play. It’s plain incompetence and just lucky it didn’t affect the result in the end.

3 minutes ago, daisycutter said:

forward line

goal kicking

fitness

umpires

depth

Agree with all of this except depth.

16 minutes ago, Ollie fan said:

From the trackwatchers, it seems like there is no proper goalkicking practice, just the players practising boundary-line shots etc at their own pace and for fun.

The shots that need to be practised are the ones from 20-40m out, straight in front or in a slight angle. And they need to be practised A LOT!!!! Including by our captain!

I’m reminded of my junior golf days and practising pennant pressure putting

I know it’s not the same but I feel like we need something like this

Firstly to the Hawks supporter behind the cheersquad who thought yelling Free Kick Hawthorn was funny everytime they misunderstood the rules and thought they missed a free kick, tbere's a reason you should make sure the needle doesn't go too deep when getting a head tattoo.

Secondly to the umpires, best argument I've ever seen to force professionalise them, I don't care if you get more money in your day job, if you're this bad at your other gig then get out of the profession. Atrocious, and seem to get worse every year. Ducking into a tackle is HTB, and Hawks players are trained to do it.

Now I've done venting, part of the reason the first three quarters was so good was we were defending really well from a tactical viewpoint. The Hawks wanted to go up the middle quickly, and they often seemed to be getting a paddock there, but our backs didn't come up to meet them but hung back and stayed on their man. Our mids/wings then ran hard to pressure or attack the kicker causing either poor passes or even making them go sideways.

Last quarter was diabolical again , and you could see it coming in third. I moved down to the bottom level in the fourth because I was losing my temper over umpiring and their were kids nearby, so not sure if they swung a tactical change or if we ran out of gas to spark the avalanche, but late in the third our dare had evaporated. We went sideways looking for gaps and couldn't find one, as noone was willing to try running it to open things up. Their defenders are too good to bomb and our fumbles just seemed to become the norm.

On the way home I nearly got run over by some [censored] who was too busy watching a passing ambulance to note he was turning through a green light pedestrian crossing. Demonland'd censor, and possibly ban me if I post what I yelled at him here, but I don't think he'll make that mistake again.

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

Oliver did play Adonai 😜

Who’d have known

3 minutes ago, DeeMee said:

Well I was going to try and be clever and relate it to “The Journey” but decided the most flagrantly bad umpiring decision I’ve seen in 50 years said it all. Not why we lost obviously but I truly can’t understand the umpiring.

Gotcha…I wasn’t able to see the game live, which is probably fortunate, as i have seen the same game so often

Fritsch and Oliver have become liabilities. Just in case you didn’t know, Spargo, small forwards are supposed to kick goals.

The umpiring was appalling and I can't help but think it sapped some of the spirit we were showing, but in the end we failed horribly to capitlise when we controlled the game in Q2 and Q3. We should have been 5-6 goals up before the last quarter started and then (hopefully) been able to hold on from there.

We really missed Petty as a forward and should have picked another tall defender to allow Turner to play forward aswell.

We also missed Viney too, especailly down the stretch.

I am usually one of the last here to give up on players, but I am at the point to call Jefferson a bust. Did not warrant a call up to the seniors and then did nothing today to even slightly hint he belonged there.

Fritsch is also horribly out of form and/or confidence and needs to go back to Casey and really made to earn a recall this time.

And this will likely be unpopular, but I don't think Windsor has the temperment to play on half back and needs to be played further up the ground, away from the pressure of the backline.

Some positives, Langford is a joy to watch and is the most exciting young prospect we've had since Clarry, Trac and Brayshaw. Lindsay also seems to have an extremely bright future. Bowey has turned into a fantastic player after 2 quiet seasons. Easily our most consitent players this year and would have to be leading (or very close to it) our B&F.

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

No excitement

What? We transitioned the ball beautifully many times and had them on toast for three quarters.

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

, no dare,

Did you watch the game?

58 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

defunct game plan

Did you watch the game?

Classical typical same old Melbourne. Except our forward line is even worse this season. Remarkable.

I know we were arguably the better side for 3 quarters, but jeez, there were some weak efforts out there today.

Very tentative, fumbly and low skill efforts all over the ground.

McVee, Tholstrup, Windsor all with weak efforts in the last and Oliver's lack of interest cost us all day.

The slow switch worked maybe one out of 20 times? Painful.

It's just sh*tty football to watch. 3-7 after next week is diabolical, Goodwin MUST GO, this is his forward line.

Can’t pin that one on Goody imo, game plan works, had us 19 shots to 15 at 3QT but the players can’t kick. Yes maybe we need a new kicking coach but at the same time these are professional footballers who get paid to kick - fix yourselves boys ffs!

Coaching can only do so much but eventually you have to execute under pressure..

Another last quarter fade out though is pretty hard to cop. Selwyn and co need to move on.

1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

What? We transitioned the ball beautifully many times and had them on toast for three quarters.

Did you watch the game?

Did you watch the game?

Did you see the Score?

Had them on toast, that is pure Comedy

We were the better team. This kind of loss shouldn’t matter.

JVR has a great many attributes, seems to be overthinking and over-trying. That’s the pressure of AFL. Give the kid time.

And Jeffo, he’s young, I don’t know why people pile on @picket fence for supporting the kid. I hope he becomes a massive gun for us and Pickett never lets us forget that he was always a believer!

Terrible conclusion to a game in which we outplayed the opposition for the better part of three quarters.

Barring the first 10 minutes I thought we more than matched them and at one point in the third term we looked like kicking away if we could just get a break.

Must wonder about the fitness team after that finish although had we taken our opportunities (Fritter take note, also Sharp, Spargs, JvR etc) scoreboard pressure may not have seen them play with the freedom they did in the final term.

I am normally critical of umpires but I have to say that was one of the most lamentable performances I have seen. The insufficient intent against Clarry, the non-free to Kozzie for a trip, the free kick to Cool (I think) for launching himself at a pack in what was clearly a reckless exercise and should have been penalised, the disregard of Hawthorn's throwing (barring one instance) and an absurd holding the ball against one of ours who had literally no time to dispose...left me speechless.

That said, you can't complain about the umpires when you kick yourself out of the game in a manner that is so familiar it seems to be part of our game plan.

It's early to say it but I fear that's the season, right there.

Ia it a coincidence that we prioritised a kid who could clearly kick the footy with our first pick and in a game where no-one could hit the backside of a barn, his 3 shots on goal all went through?

It's all been said in here, a tale as old as time for us going forward.

The game plan/coaching generated plenty of shots at goal from kickable positions. The coaches did their job. Including the forward coach (yes, that's right).

The reason no one leads and we can't buy a goal is not coaching - its that outside of Koz and Fritsch who is mentally cooked, we have no natural forwards. Spargo is close & was ok today - but he doesn't impact the scoreboard enough. He's just not that player.

Melk has great forward craft and we miss him when he's not there. He also makes other forwards better (a clear trait of a natural forward).

I have held concerns on JVR for a long time, well before his dip in form - actually BECAUSE he's such an accurate set shot. It's papered over a lot of cracks as he's only needed 1 or 2 shots a game to look like he's done his job.

He struggles to create separation, has hard hands and lacks lateral agility. He's easy for an AFL KPD to defend as he can only kick goals one way - a mark or a free kick. He doesn't generate any other looks because he just doesn't know how.

If he kicked set shots at a league average rate, I think the concerns around him would have come to the fore more quickly

1 minute ago, No10 said:

We were the better team. This kind of loss shouldn’t matter.

JVR has a great many attributes, seems to be overthinking and over-trying. That’s the pressure of AFL. Give the kid time.

And Jeffo, he’s young, I don’t know why people pile on @picket fence for supporting the kid. I hope he becomes a massive gun for us and Pickett never lets us forget that he was always a believer!

Jeffo might make it, but he hasn’t yet and shouldn’t be in the team. Good on PF for backing the kid - I definitely prefer that over “supporters” that mercilessly rag on struggling 20 year olds - but he’s going a very early crow. Hopefully he gets the bragging rights in the long run.

13 minutes ago, Adam The God said:

Oh, and I'd be trying JVR as a CHB, which will release Turner, who is going to be a very good player at either end of the ground, to play forward alongside Petty. I'd then play Petty as second ruck.

Here here. Not to be overly negative but said 3 weeks ago he is a liability for our midfield. He simply doesnt run to the right spots. Crashing packs only takes you so far and not in this game plan. He played his junior football as a backman, it wont be foreign to him. Turner is still only 20 odd games in. Could be anything. Even im the last you could see him wanting to take the game on.

1 hour ago, DiscoStu17 said:

I don’t hate Weddle or anything but he should have been cleaned up by Rivers in the last quarter

he had every right to go for that ball, and didn’t need to stop and do the nice thing.

It was not Riv’s finest moment