5 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Nor are they giving us them for Oliver or Trac.

No but you can get picks, and use those picks. It’s rebuild time so you have to give to get.

Giving Fritta doesn’t get much but teams might back themselves to get Oliver and Trac right. And in any case they aren’t winning us any games so move them on to get players in who can.

43 minutes ago, Bang Bang Bang said:

I’m honestly wondering what has happened to Clarry in a football sense?

He’s obviously had some issues which we all know about, but all signs pointed towards him being over them and on his way to a redemption season in 2025. And yet… he’s still just a bad plodding along like C-grader out there.

This was a guy who was close to the best player in the competition for many years and as recently as mid 2023.

He only just turned 28, that should be the prime age for an inside mid,is it crazy to hope he could still get back to the Clarry of old?

The last thing I bloody want is for Geelong to get him on a discount and have us subside his salary because I know EXACTLY how that movie plays out.

Its something i wonder about as well. i.e. what specifically is responsible for his drop in form. Its not just a minor drop either - i wouldn't even consider him in the average bucket of midfielders anymore- perhaps a harsh view on my account. But our once lauded midfield is in fact the weakest part of our team (yes more so than our dysfunctional forward line).

We know he has a complex MH diagnosis for which he is receiving ongoing treatment. We also know the game has evolved and his role has changed.

But all of the things we know (above) doesn't feel like it can explain it all - maybe it does. maybe it is as simple as that.

But maybe he has lost the desire to play footy - that he has fallen out-of-love (pardon the pun) with the game, his teammates and the club. The performances feel much more in line with something of this nature and hence why the talk of being in a new environment may help him rediscover his passion.

I noticed in his 200th, there appeared to be an extra spring in his step. He had a bit more emotion coming through. He put in a bit more effort... To be fair there are others that fall into this bucket as well.

36 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I am all for trading Clarry or Trac if it helps us land a good proven player, or if we get a bunch of good quality draft picks we can continue to build the list around.

Out of interest, if you were List Manager for any club what would your trade offer be, assuming they are both on $1.5m pa and 4-5 years to run on their contract?

Just now, Lucifers Hero said:

Out of interest, if you were List Manager for any club what would your trade offer be, assuming they are both on $1.5m pa and 4-5 years to run on their contract?

It depends on the club

I think people over play the salary card given the cap grows each year. Many clubs would have the money to pay them. The same clubs chasing all the other gettable stars out there.

I reckon if I’m Adelaide and I know I need more contested ball winners I’m happy to trade a first round pick for Oliver, having finished top 4 but maybe failed in the heat of finals.

If I’m Hawthorn and I need more quality up forward I’m happily trading a first round pick for Fritsch

If I’m Essendon and I’m trash and I have to get out of this finals slump, and I have 3 first round picks I’m happily trading one of them for Trac.

Likewise if I’m the Pies and I reckon I can go again and I need an upgrade on the ever injured De Goey, I give up my first round pick or a future first for Trac.

But if I’m Richmond I’m going back to the draft because I know these guys won’t be around for the next flag.

Of course you have to also convince the contracted player to come across. I can’t see Clarry moving to SA or Trac going to the hot mess that is Essendon.

We “overpaid” to get May who was not baggage free by any means because we felt he was a critical missing piece. We were right on.

Edited 12 hours ago12 hr by Jaded No More

51 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

Sure, but trading players not in demand is a silly way to improve your list.

You want to trade players who are surplus to your needs, but who also have good market value.

Trading someone like Fritsch for example, who is on a moderate salary, and a player who would improve good teams significantly makes more sense from a list improvement point of view, than trading our two best midfielders (still) for draft picks that may or may not land us equivalent, let alone better replacements.

I am all for trading Clarry or Trac if it helps us land a good proven player, or if we get a bunch of good quality draft picks we can continue to build the list around.

While I tend to agree and don’t think we should trade anyone for significant unders, there’s an element of “addition by subtraction” when it comes to Oliver

Oliver’s current output is reflective of the core issues with our list - too slow, too inside and lacking football smarts

He’s not the only player who has these traits, but he’s certainly the highest paid and can only play as an inside midfielder

If he can’t become a near A grade midfielder again, he will be a liability to our team and we won’t be able to transition fully to a modern midfield/gameplan (presuming we don’t surround him with complimentary types, which we don’t currently have)

I guess it’s a question of would you rather Oliver on his current salary at a B or C grade level, or say freeing up his salary, having Rivers move the midfield at a B or C grade level and having more cap space to fix needs in other parts of the ground?

I love Oliver but we risk being stuck in the mud if he (or at least another member of our big three midfielders) aren’t moved on

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by demoncat

45 minutes ago, No10 said:

TOO LATE.

We’ve doubled down on all of them, Goodwin too. Trac and Oliver were champions and need to get back to their best.

The young need Trac and Oliver to learn from. We’ve made this mistake before.

Can’t sell our best players at their lowest value. Forget it.

I tend to agree. Their value is that low, that it now makes no sense to trade them. I think we shopped them around last year, and the value just wasn't there, so it won't be there this year. We do however, need to get back into the first round.

21 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

It depends on the club

I think people over play the salary card given the cap grows each year. Many clubs would have the money to pay them. The same clubs chasing all the other gettable stars out there.

I reckon if I’m Adelaide and I know I need more contested ball winners I’m happy to trade a first round pick for Oliver, having finished top 4 but maybe failed in the heat of finals.

If I’m Hawthorn and I need more quality up forward I’m happily trading a first round pick for Fritsch

If I’m Essendon and I’m trash and I have to get out of this finals slump, and I have 3 first round picks I’m happily trading one of them for Trac.

Likewise if I’m the Pies and I reckon I can go again and I need an upgrade on the ever injured De Goey, I give up my first round pick or a future first for Trac.

But if I’m Richmond I’m going back to the draft because I know these guys won’t be around for the next flag.

Of course you have to also convince the contracted player to come across. I can’t see Clarry moving to SA or Trac going to the hot mess that is Essendon.

We “overpaid” to get May who was not baggage free by any means because we felt he was a critical missing piece. We were right on.

Fair comments.

But, clubs will factor in the sal cap implications especially as many have forward committed its growth from recent and future CBA's. Hence the big contracts being thrown around.

Can't think of clubs who have or will have sal cap to take their contracts, especially relative to what their existing players get.

imv it is realistic for mfc and fans to consider $ and contract length when looking at it from a buyer's pov. Sure we need to negotiate to get the best deal but at the end of the day the market sets the price.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by Lucifers Hero

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

With Oliver, it's not about what we get pickwise it's about getting his contract off the books. Gives us $1.5m to throw at another player/FA.

Take off both Oiliver & Petracca's contract and what could we throw at some other players that can kick, and give us less off-field noise.

Yes we are more chance of losing ! But compared to now, what's the difference ?

1 hour ago, No10 said:

TOO LATE.

We’ve doubled down on all of them, Goodwin too. Trac and Oliver were champions and need to get back to their best.

The young need Trac and Oliver to learn from. We’ve made this mistake before.

Can’t sell our best players at their lowest value. Forget it.

I'm now convinced they won't be around next year.

Clarry after 23 wanted out to the Crows after his hamstring problems.

Clarry might not have been in a good head space but he wanted out.

The Crows after hearing differing stories on Clarry and decided to bauk at our ask price of 2x 1st rounders.

They've straighten him back up now got him to his 200th game, Maxy has toured him around doing sportsmans nights to earn some extra coin from 2021 GF stories.

So he will be on his way on better terms with the club and he'll go into another environment (Cats) get the eye of the tiger back, strip some weight off, become rock hard Clarry again and start killing it.

Different story with Christian the offer that came in for him from the Pies last year was insulting as far as the club were concerned.

Club would have sat him down and told him get yourself right no need to come to club BNF (which I didn't agree with) get your fitness back, find a bit of form, let the club steady the ship, show to the Demon faithful you are on board.

Play your 200th and make peace with the club and leave on good terms when a better offer arrives from another club next year e.g Hawks.

Everyone walks away with a happy outcome and both are welcomed back in 5.5 years time for the GF reunion in 2031.

Edited 11 hours ago11 hr by YesitwasaWin4theAges

Want to know what Tom Morris thinks? No? Fair enough. But anyway:

Tom Morris’ massive trade update on 25 AFL players — SEN

“Similarly, significant change is coming at Melbourne on and off the field.

“Clayton Oliver’s huge salary works against him now if he wants to leave, which I believe he still does. There’s Bayley Fritsch and even Jake Lever there too. They’re two players to keep an eye on.”

5 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Want to know what Tom Morris thinks? No? Fair enough. But anyway:

Tom Morris’ massive trade update on 25 AFL players — SEN

“Similarly, significant change is coming at Melbourne on and off the field.

“Clayton Oliver’s huge salary works against him now if he wants to leave, which I believe he still does. There’s Bayley Fritsch and even Jake Lever there too. They’re two players to keep an eye on.”

I think it's reasonable to suggest there will be some changes , off and on the field. Player wise there are always the "shock" trades no one saw coming. Why would we be surprised ( really) if 'playerX' .. well loved at the club decides to up-stumps and seek other fields !! If some come in ...well some have to go out. We have sfa currency in terms of picks . There is a legitimate question of do we need a super-hand of picks in order to add to our talent. F/S opportunities might come at a relative discount if we can only use an amalgamation of picks we have 🤔🤷‍♂️

Trade seems to be the preferred route to get a type of player rtg that you need. This was always Roos' philosophy and I agree with him. Well trade by very definition means X for Y. Classic Omelette and Eggs situation. Something will have to give ( literally) .. in order to get.

I for one will be fascinated to see how we manage the off season... both on and off field. That said I'm not really expecting much for 26. 27, maybe.

Petracca for McKay?

This is strictly a hypothetical, but if Hawthorn came to us and offered Mitch Lewis and a late first/ early second for Petracca, should we be taking this deal? He is 27 next year, and unsigned beyond 2026. However is a huge injury risk, but would be a huge forward line improvement.

3 minutes ago, KoltTheRam said:

This is strictly a hypothetical, but if Hawthorn came to us and offered Mitch Lewis and a late first/ early second for Petracca, should we be taking this deal? He is 27 next year, and unsigned beyond 2026. However is a huge injury risk, but would be a huge forward line improvement.

100%

We improve instantly and to a greater degree than the hawks would (provided Lewis plays)

43 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Want to know what Tom Morris thinks? No? Fair enough. But anyway:

Tom Morris’ massive trade update on 25 AFL players — SEN

“Similarly, significant change is coming at Melbourne on and off the field.

“Clayton Oliver’s huge salary works against him now if he wants to leave, which I believe he still does. There’s Bayley Fritsch and even Jake Lever there too. They’re two players to keep an eye on.”

Interesting that TM’s potential trade list has 19 players from struggling clubs and only 7 from clubs in the 8 including 3 from the Suns. A snapshot to where the game is going.

4 minutes ago, KoltTheRam said:

This is strictly a hypothetical, but if Hawthorn came to us and offered Mitch Lewis and a late first/ early second for Petracca, should we be taking this deal? He is 27 next year, and unsigned beyond 2026. However is a huge injury risk, but would be a huge forward line improvement.

No way. We need to rebuild not patch fix. Lewis is on the outer anyway, injury prone.

2 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

No way. We need to rebuild not patch fix. Lewis is on the outer anyway, injury prone.

I believe that's the one flaw to this deal. He is very injury prone. If he gets a good run at it for once, he is a top 5 forward in the league in my eyes. If we made this deal, and got 4-6 years of 20 games a year out of him I call that a win

7 minutes ago, KoltTheRam said:

This is strictly a hypothetical, but if Hawthorn came to us and offered Mitch Lewis and a late first/ early second for Petracca, should we be taking this deal? He is 27 next year, and unsigned beyond 2026. However is a huge injury risk, but would be a huge forward line improvement.

Averages 9 games a season and has never played more than a 15 games a season in his eight seasons.

Trac can stay. Love Oliver, but I think it’s time he’s moved on.

1 hour ago, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

I'm now convinced they won't be around next year.

Clarry after 23 wanted out to the Crows after his hamstring problems.

Clarry might not have been in a good head space but he wanted out.

The Crows after hearing differing stories on Clarry and decided to bauk at our ask price of 2x 1st rounders.

They've straighten him back up now got him to his 200th game, Maxy has toured him around doing sportsmans nights to earn some extra coin from 2021 GF stories.

So he will be on his way on better terms with the club and he'll go into another environment (Cats) get the eye of the tiger back, strip some weight off, become rock hard Clarry again and start killing it.

Different story with Christian the offer that came in for him from the Pies last year was insulting as far as the club were concerned.

Club would have sat him down and told him get yourself right no need to come to club BNF (which I didn't agree with) get your fitness back, find a bit of form, let the club steady the ship, show to the Demon faithful you are on board.

Play your 200th and make peace with the club and leave on good terms when a better offer arrives from another club next year e.g Hawks.

Everyone walks away with a happy outcome and both are welcomed back in 5.5 years time for the GF reunion in 2031.

Trac didn’t want to attend the BnF and used his AZ training as an excuse. The club should’ve made him attend.

Ultimately that’s a lack of maturity of both sides.

I agree Clarry at the Cats will send him back to his awesome best. As Smith said, “the Cats let the players play to their strengths”… Sometimes it’s not that hard Goody.

And we would get nothing in return. That will be the heartbreaking outcome the media will push.

So they both need to stay. The culture (horrible word) needs to grow the f up.

TOO LATE.

Next year is big or bust. The fallout or vindication.

Trac has more currency but I'm not sure what we can realistically get for him in any case.

Moving Oliver on is now moot. We would be doing it just to free up half his salary. Does the extra 800k we'd have to play with mean we'd be able to get someone in that can provide more than Oliver? Not sure.

The trouble is I'm not sure he and Viney can play in the same team anymore.

4 hours ago, No10 said:

TOO LATE.

We’ve doubled down on all of them, Goodwin too. Trac and Oliver were champions and need to get back to their best.

The young need Trac and Oliver to learn from. We’ve made this mistake before.

Can’t sell our best players at their lowest value. Forget it.

We need to get rid of one of them, no question about it. Between the two, I’d probably keep Petracca because he clearly has more upside and can still turn games around when he’s on. He’s shown glimpses of brilliance, and there’s still some to tap into. Oliver has been seriously underwhelming. He hasn’t been close to the level we expect from him—not even remotely. His form has been crap, no question about it and he’s just not contributing in the way he should be. Honestly, I’d even be willing to pay a portion of his salary just to get him off the books and onto another team. It’s harsh, but we can’t afford to carry passengers if we want to move forward., and he’s just not contributing in the way he should be.

Edited 8 hours ago8 hr by Bowserpower

8 minutes ago, Bowserpower said:

We need to get rid of one of them, no question about it. Between the two, I’d probably keep Petracca because he clearly has more upside and can still turn games around when he’s on. He’s shown glimpses of brilliance, and there’s still some to tap into. Oliver has been seriously underwhelming. He hasn’t been close to the level we expect from him—not even remotely. His form has been [censored], no question about it and he’s just not contributing in the way he should be. Honestly, I’d even be willing to pay a portion of his salary just to get him off the books and onto another team. It’s harsh, but we can’t afford to carry passengers if we want to move forward., and he’s just not contributing in the way he should be.

Fair points, but not sure I agree.

Trac doesn’t put his body in (perhaps fair) a huge limitation if he’s going to play like Danger into his 30s. He hasn’t quite reached the extremity of his potential imo.

Conversely Clarry is the player that won all our BnFs for a reason. He has a mind that pushes him to win.

I’d keep both. What teams have traded their best talents in their prime years and ever worked out??

i now know why Kane Cornes does not agree with 7-year contracts

The tricky part about Petracca and Oliver trades is that they are both on enormous money and long term deals. So to get anything decent in return, clubs won't want to give up much (ala Geelong/Oliver last year). It's either a salary dump and get nothing/next to nothing back, or get a decent pick but player's contract is ripped up. Players also have to be happy to start a new contract for less elsewhere (which they won't). So we are very possibly stuck with them.

Salem is a trade. If you ever needed proof, the 9 min 50 sec mark when he pretends to spoil the ball with his left hand. It is funny but telling. No ticker and his time here is up.

A talented junior and helpful during our flag tilt but he is not up to it.