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Just Kick the [censored] Thing!

Demonland
in Melbourne Demons

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3 minutes ago, Demonland said:

I feel personally attacked @binman

 

Is something missing from the post ...

... or is this  a new quiz 🤔

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    3 minutes ago, Lucifers Hero said:

    Is something missing from the post ...

    ... or is this  a new quiz 🤔

    The Twitter/X card didn't display properly in the original post, so I've re-embedded it. This has been an ongoing issue when embedding Twitter/X content here, and it seems to be caused by Twitter/X itself. The problem is quite random—sometimes embeds work, sometimes they don't, and occasionally an embed that initially worked will fail to display later when revisiting the thread. It's particularly frustrating when the embedded content is essential to the post.

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    5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

    I feel personally attacked @binman

    "JUST KICK IT!" "JUST GET IT IN THERE!"

    You probably hear that at the footy a lot...

    Champion Data's Daniel Hoyne believes the game is moving away from a forward 50 territory battle.@SENSportsday | #AFL pic.twitter.com/WHTPiEst5y

    — SEN 1116 (@1116sen) March 11, 2025

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

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    Ball movement is now king. Maximising points from turnover was always the sustainable way of scoring.

    Things we have never traditionally been good at in recent times.

    I also think the player profile will now look for athletes with skills more then brute strength.

    The pure inside players days are limited IMV. Likes of Libba, Viney, Oliver, Cripps will be a rarity going forward.
     

    Hopefully Langford will show enough outside game as has been promised. 

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    26 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    You've misinterpreted his comments George.

    Like 180 degrees misinterpreted.

    Edited by binman

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    17 minutes ago, Demonland said:

    I feel personally attacked @binman

    Somebody tell Goody please

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    I think there’s a time and place for the ‘get it in there’ strategy. For example, when it is wet it isn’t a bad strategy as long as you are kicking to the right areas and not to the advantage of the other team.

    But for the most part ball movement and short kicks are more beneficial ways of scoring. Also, being able to defend well around your 50m arc and then burst away when you win it back. That’s the best way to score and probably why the hawks won last night.

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    8 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    Under-scoring the legendary John Kennedy's famous maxim:

    Just kick it, then it's someone else's problem.

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    1 hour ago, Kent said:

    Somebody tell Goody please

    Um, we were almost bang on 50-50 for inside 50s against the Giants.

    Goody has got the memo

    Edited by binman

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    14 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    That sounds like the 2021 Premiership Coach’s style of play, that so many DL’s are against.

    It does require talented quick smalls though. Unfortunately our best is on his backside for 2 more games.

    There is a lot of common sense to the theory, that it is better to be contesting a loose ball in your forward 50, than possessing it in your defensive 50, especially when you might have suspect skill.

    Edited by Redleg

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    19 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    Did you listen to what he said?

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    20 minutes ago, bush demon said:

    Under-scoring the legendary John Kennedy's famous maxim:

    Just kick it, then it's someone else's problem.

    Again, that's not what hoyne is saying. He's saying the opposite. The best teams ARE NOT just kicking it, territory is no longer king.

    Which is why we have been changing our method over the last season and a bit. 

    The gag is lampooning the Pearl clutching nuffies screaming to 'just kick it' as teams chip it around and/or chain up with handballs.

    Edited by binman

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    28 minutes ago, Demonland said:

    The Twitter/X card didn't display properly in the original post, so I've re-embedded it. This has been an ongoing issue when embedding Twitter/X content here, and it seems to be caused by Twitter/X itself. The problem is quite random—sometimes embeds work, sometimes they don't, and occasionally an embed that initially worked will fail to display later when revisiting the thread. It's particularly frustrating when the embedded content is essential to the post.

    We really have reached peak Elon Musk problems when Demonland is being affected.

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    28 minutes ago, GS_1905 said:

    Ball movement is now king. Maximising points from turnover was always the sustainable way of scoring.

    Things we have never traditionally been good at in recent times.

    I also think the player profile will now look for athletes with skills more then brute strength.

    The pure inside players days are limited IMV. Likes of Libba, Viney, Oliver, Cripps will be a rarity going forward.
     

    Hopefully Langford will show enough outside game as has been promised. 

    Will always need pure inside mids. 

    The game might be more about transition and turnover than it was, but pressure and contest is still the most important part of footy.

    And only 70% of scores come from transition.

     

    Edited by binman

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    3 minutes ago, binman said:

    Again, that's not what hoyne is saying. He's saying the opposite. The best teams ARE NOT just kicking it, territory is no longer king.

    Which is why we have been changing our method over the last season and a bit. 

    The gag is lampooning the Pearl clutching nuffies screaming to 'just kick it' as trams chip it around or chair up with handball.

    Like this?

    Melbourne tram drivers in European championships - Rail Express

    The team practices tram bowling.

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    1 hour ago, binman said:

    Again, that's not what hoyne is saying. He's saying the opposite. The best teams ARE NOT just kicking it, territory is no longer king.

    Which is why we have been changing our method over the last season and a bit. 

    The gag is lampooning the Pearl clutching nuffies screaming to 'just kick it' as trams chip it around or chair up with handball.

    Agree with you as to what Hoyne said, but that his theory requires pace and skill from transition and my fear is that we are not great in that area, ( yet ).

    As he said, only one premier in the last 6 years won it on the Clarko theory of just get it in there and that was us.

    I think Goody has been trying to improve pace and skill from transition and that is why Caleb is on the hbf and soon Judd will return there. Sharp is another who could get a go there, with possibly Woey as depth and AMW was looking good there until injured. Bowey at his best fits the bill, as he did in 2021.

    Perhaps this year the team with the best mix of both will be the premier, rather than the outstanding team in the one area.

    PS: Forgot XL .

    Edited by Redleg

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    3 minutes ago, Redleg said:

    Agree with you as to what Hoyne said, but that his theory requires pace and skill from transition and my fear is that we are not great in that area, ( yet ).

    As he said, only one premier in the last 6 years won it on the Clarko theory of just get it in there and that was us.

    I think Goody has been trying to improve pace and skill from transition and that is why Caleb is on the hbf and soon Judd will return there. Sharp is another who could get a go there, with possibly Woey as depth and AMW was looking good there until injured. Bowey at his best fits the bill, as he did in 2021.

    Perhaps this year the team with the best mix of both will be the premier, rather than the outstanding team in the one area.

    It requires a lot of work Red and players having the confidence to hit the kick and teammates as soon as they identify they are open. Doubt and hesitation causes 50/50 contests and turnovers. Once teams get speed on the ball and the method is ingrained into the players the system works well and the team suddenly looks to have pace. Just want us to stick with the method and have faith as With Mcvee, Kossie and Windsor thrown into the mix I believe we can be very dangerous on the counter and with our ball movement to get 1 v1s inside our F50

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    1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    But we've done this for 8 years. Repeat entries. I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying the opposite.

    As long as you break even (roughly) with inside 50s, it's more important how you slingshot from your half back / ie how fast/clean is your ball movement.

    It's not about just getting it in there. It's about the ball movement being "ballistic" enough to break lines and zones and deliver quality entries as opposed to the quantity of entries.

    Ah, sorry @binman, you beat me to it.

    Edited by Adam The God

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    1 minute ago, Adam The God said:

    But we've done this for 8 years. Repeat entries. I don't think that's what he's saying. He's saying the opposite.

    As long as you break even (roughly) with inside 50s, it's more important how you slingshot from your half back / ie how fast/clean is your ball movement.

    It's not about just getting it in there. It's about the ball movement being "ballistic" enough to break lines and zones and deliver quality entries as opposed to the quantity of entries.

    The red and blue print.

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    When so much of the game is determined by scores from the back half - just get it in there is a silly game style. 

    Because you simply generate more opportunities for the opposition to score in transition from the back half. This issue has been massively compounded by the changes to the kick in rules.

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    1 hour ago, Kent said:

    Somebody tell Goody please

    I think Goody is ahead of the curve here, although Mitchell's team displayed a similar approach last year.

    Our plan seems to be:

    1) get it in to a less crowded forwardline as quickly as possible on turnover or via (centre) stoppage.

    2) if not, play keepings off at the back and pull the opposition higher up the field, leaving space in behind.

    This is basically the Man City playbook.

    Where we have an advantage if we can improve our ball movement with the likes of Windsor, McVee and Lindsay is we score a lot from stoppage.

    This year, like the first half of last year, is learning to score off turnover with slingshot from our defensive half, and continuing to beat our opposition with scores from stoppage.

    Edited by Adam The God

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    2 hours ago, Redleg said:

    Agree with you as to what Hoyne said, but that his theory requires pace and skill from transition and my fear is that we are not great in that area, ( yet ).

    As he said, only one premier in the last 6 years won it on the Clarko theory of just get it in there and that was us.

    I think Goody has been trying to improve pace and skill from transition and that is why Caleb is on the hbf and soon Judd will return there. Sharp is another who could get a go there, with possibly Woey as depth and AMW was looking good there until injured. Bowey at his best fits the bill, as he did in 2021.

    Perhaps this year the team with the best mix of both will be the premier, rather than the outstanding team in the one area.

    With our current mix of players we'll never match the very best transition teams at that game.

    And I totally agree - I reckon goody is developing a hybrid model that looks to still be competitive on the turnover transition front, but also plays to our strengths - contest, clearance, pressure and defence.

    Transition footy is sexy but without manic pressure and contest it's not going to win a flag. 

    The swans last season were the perfect example of that -  halfway through the season they were, what , 2 games clear on top of the ladder playing the best, most dynamic transition footy in the AFL.

    When the heat got dialled up come finals they were found wanting and come the GF the lions smashed them off the park.

    Edited by binman

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    2 minutes ago, binman said:

    With our current mix of players we'll never match the very best transition teams at that game.

    And I totally agree - I reckon goody is developing a hybrid model that lows to still be competitive on the turnover transition front, but also plays to our strengths - contest, pressure and defence.

    Transition footy us sexy but without manic pressure and contest it's nor going to win a flag. 

    The sans ladt season were the perfect example of that  halfway through the season they were, what  2 games clear on top f the ladder playing the best, most dynamic transition footy ij the AFL.

    When the heat got dialled up come finals they were found wanting and come gf the lions smashed them off the park.

    This is what I’m hoping for. Our midfield is still largely a contested beast and I’m a believer in this. It’s on the outside we need the run and skill and that’s what we’re seeing. The club has shown a great deal of foresight in making those additions on the run. Windsor, Tholstrup, Lindsay are draft picks that could have easily been shopped around for ageing competitive beasts to suit our previous style. The club chose a different path and the fact that our best mids are still in their prime it gives us the opportunity to add run without diminishing our contested strength. I see a club confident in what it’s doing.

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    1 hour ago, george_on_the_outer said:

    I have to agree.  It is becoming obvious, that Hoyne's thesis is correct.  "Getting it in there" means more opportunities.  Even if it is turned over in the 50m, it is better than a turnover upfield where you get nothing, because at least you had a chance. 

    Hawthorn used this tactic extensively in the Carlton game.  Long kicks into the forward line almost every single time.  Forget about the short possession/territory game, just put it in there and take your chances.  The percentages will win it for you, if you have more chances. 

    Thank God you didnt get on the board with this insight

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