6 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Would you have preferred the option of Kozzie Signing a long term deal with Fremantle?

Sure, if their heart is not with us, and the thing that holds them loyal is money, my belief is that they can go and someone else will take their place.

If the big contract players were the answer to our woes, wouldn't we be doing well already?

Poor distribution of the slice of pie, leads to dissatisfaction. Others may believe different to me, but we are an underachieving club, and there has been a poor culture for some time.

With Kossie now on a big contract will we change and meet more of our potential? My guess is no.

17 minutes ago, Kev said:

Sure, I am coming with views and opinions based on my life's experience.

To call them "Deep end", or "unrelated", is just personal attacks.

You are welcome to your views. Everyone has a different one and they're all based on different things. You can consider my responses to the arguments you made to be direct attacks on you personally if that is how you choose to take them.

However, I think that the record can stand pretty comfortably that my argument about quality of your best players vs your bottom 6 players (ie, the point I addressed initially with you) was unrelated to your eventual argument that a player being well paid creates resentment through the rest of the playing group. We were definitely arguing different points by the end, which is why I called many or your arguments 'unrelated'.

1 hour ago, Axis of Bob said:

Do you think we'd be a better chance of winning a flag with Kozzie Pickett or with two Charlie Spargos and a Marty Hore?

Having 20 to their 18 on the field would certainly help! 😉

(I think I get your point, however😄)

4 minutes ago, Axis of Bob said:

You are welcome to your views. Everyone has a different one and they're all based on different things. You can consider my responses to the arguments you made to be direct attacks on you personally if that is how you choose to take them.

However, I think that the record can stand pretty comfortably that my argument about quality of your best players vs your bottom 6 players (ie, the point I addressed initially with you) was unrelated to your eventual argument that a player being well paid creates resentment through the rest of the playing group. We were definitely arguing different points by the end, which is why I called many or your arguments 'unrelated'.

Sorry Axis, you lost me when you started talking about Richmond players. How do I know were they stand as players within the pecking order, and the contracts they have.

Also, I thought we were having a dialogue and that moved further from top players and bottom six.

There is a stereotype out there, a cliche that got quoted to me from Collingwood supporter on the weekend. "Our bottom six better than your bottom six", and that is why we win. I have heard it before. Word of mouth rebuttal, I have no direct evidence.

As for getting the best from that bottom six, I believe that the top players (if not excessively renumerated), make the bottom better, as they bring them into the game, and assist with the weaknesses.

The lack of space in cap to deliver the middle players a better contract if earned, causes waves.

The expectations of the top, who do not live up to it, leave a dissatisfaction.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Kev

3 hours ago, Gorgoroth said:

I mean you don't get the nickname "Purple" for nothing.

However, we may like to think again now about this nickname...

Who is Your Purple?

Who is Your Purple?

In high-pressure, results-driven careers, we readily gravitate towards mentors, sponsors, and advisors. These people offer guidance, wisdom, and strategic support.

.

I said much earlier in this thread that I was thrilled with Kozzie’s new deal. This interview with Koz literally had tears streaming down my cheeks.

Yes, I know I’m an old ‘softie’, but ………

https://www.melbournefc.com.au/video/1803506/faith-in-the-future-picketts-long-term-deal?videoId=1803506&modal=true&type=video&publishFrom=1749702294001

1 hour ago, Kev said:

Sure, I am coming with views and opinions based on my life's experience.

To call them "Deep end", or "unrelated", is just personal attacks.

Kev, I think you’re missing what’s going on. Both Oliver and Petracca were top 2-5 in comp when we signed them. We paid them what they were worth and protected our assets with the length of contract. It hasn’t worked out perfectly but they remain very very good players. Pickett was being courted heavily by Fremantle. I’d agree that the contract is probably too long but I think the money is spot on, he’s an absolute jet. If down the track he still really wants to leave we hold the cards. He’s ours as are Petracca and Oliver. I think all 3 make us closer to a Flag than further away and to me that’s all that matters.

2 minutes ago, Roost it far said:

Kev, I think you’re missing what’s going on. Both Oliver and Petracca were top 2-5 in comp when we signed them. We paid them what they were worth and protected our assets with the length of contract. It hasn’t worked out perfectly but they remain very very good players. Pickett was being courted heavily by Fremantle. I’d agree that the contract is probably too long but I think the money is spot on, he’s an absolute jet. If down the track he still really wants to leave we hold the cards. He’s ours as are Petracca and Oliver. I think all 3 make us closer to a Flag than further away and to me that’s all that matters.

But it is not working for us.

We remain underachievers, we lack coherence, cannot attract free agency players to the MFC, have board troubles, players are arguing with each other, many selfish acts on the field, not enough sacrifice for the betterment of the team. Now less in the salary cap.

Did you see Clarrys kicking last week?

Did you see the disruption Tracc caused to the team?

Kossie plays a selfish game, and can be inconsistent, though brilliant, I reckon. Can we build a team around him? Let's hope so. His management has got maximum from the cap. Has he sacrificed much? Does it encourage us to be a destination club. Will it help the other players be happier?

Gee, he would want to have a good year next season, and drag us back into the top 8 if not top 4 of the comp.

I think we have underachieved and have overly rewarded those doing that.

We are going backwards.

1 hour ago, Kev said:

Sure, if their heart is not with us, and the thing that holds them loyal is money, my belief is that they can go and someone else will take their place.

If the big contract players were the answer to our woes, wouldn't we be doing well already?

Poor distribution of the slice of pie, leads to dissatisfaction. Others may believe different to me, but we are an underachieving club, and there has been a poor culture for some time.

With Kossie now on a big contract will we change and meet more of our potential? My guess is no.

If all our Top Line Players signed large contracts to play with other Clubs, we the Club would be going nowhere fast.

Which is exactly what happened after 1964, The MFC did not change with the times until it was too late

You have to spend money to make money @Kev Rule number one….

2 minutes ago, Kev said:

Did you see the disruption Tracc caused to the team?

Last Year Tracc told the Team to get its ship in order, or else he was out

He did nothing wrong…

‘22 & ‘23 were not good times internally

5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

If all our Top Line Players signed large contracts to play with other Clubs, we the Club would be going nowhere fast.

Which is exactly what happened after 1964, The MFC did not change with the times until it was too late

You have to spend money to make money @Kev Rule number one….

Phil Carmen, John Tilbrook, Karl Ditterich, Cromwell, Moore, Templeton, Nettlefold, Wilson, how many finals matches? Buying success.

How many have jumped, Wells, Alves, many others because we don't get on field success.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Kev

20 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Last Year Tracc told the Team to get its ship in order, or else he was out

He did nothing wrong…

‘22 & ‘23 were not good times internally

Not according to the media, disruptive to the club.

If the Woods wanted to buy Traccs contract he was gone. Contracts are becoming meaningless except as a salary cap disadvantage, and causing a feeling of inequality and reducing ability to advance amongst other players

Are we more settled in the board or CEO position this season.

How was Roffey treated, is the hand over to Steve Smith going to go smoothly.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Kev

If top line players on fat contracts are producing the goods, no one in the team will have an issue

Resentment arises when they are not producing the goods.

14 minutes ago, Kev said:

Not according to the media, disruptive to the club.

If the Woods wanted to buy Traccs contract he was gone. Contracts are becoming meaningless except as a salary cap disadvantage, and causing a feeling of inequality and reducing ability to advance amongst other players

Are we more settled in the board or CEO position this season.

How was Roffey treated, is the hand over to Steve Smith going to go smoothly.

Don’t always believe the Media coverage Kev

I worked in that industry for over 30 years

Roffey’s interview on Radio was self explanatory

1 hour ago, Kev said:

But it is not working for us.

We remain underachievers, we lack coherence, cannot attract free agency players to the MFC, have board troubles, players are arguing with each other, many selfish acts on the field, not enough sacrifice for the betterment of the team. Now less in the salary cap.

Did you see Clarrys kicking last week?

Did you see the disruption Tracc caused to the team?

Kossie plays a selfish game, and can be inconsistent, though brilliant, I reckon. Can we build a team around him? Let's hope so. His management has got maximum from the cap. Has he sacrificed much? Does it encourage us to be a destination club. Will it help the other players be happier?

Gee, he would want to have a good year next season, and drag us back into the top 8 if not top 4 of the comp.

I think we have underachieved and have overly rewarded those doing that.

We are going backwards.

Get out of bed on the other side Kev.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Roost it far

Oh how I wish we were a plucky bunch of middling players that are still paid at least 92.5% of the cap…

Honestly, it’s utterly ridiculous.

1 hour ago, Kev said:

Phil Carmen, John Tilbrook, Karl Ditterich, Cromwell, Moore, Templeton, Nettlefold, Wilson, how many finals matches? Buying success.

How many have jumped, Wells, Alves, many others because we don't get on field success.

The current team is better than any of the teams these marquee players played in. We have the nucleus.

15 minutes ago, He de mon said:

The current team is better than any of the teams these marquee players played in. We have the nucleus.

They are going to be lucky to make the finals.

One loss out of the next ten and we miss. Just like the late 60's, 70's and early 80's.

The comparison is to the other teams, and we get done by the underdog, cannot put away teams when we are favourites, lose the close ones and rarely thump a team.

Other teams are passing us, in abilities and culture.

Something is wrong, and paying big bucks to individuals doesn't seem to change that.

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Kev

35 minutes ago, He de mon said:

The current team is better than any of the teams these marquee players played in. We have the nucleus.

Very slight point of order: Brian Wilson and teammates?

21 minutes ago, Timothy Reddan-A'Blew said:

Brian Wilson and teammates?

The Beach Boys?

Salary cap in 2025 is $17.7 million.

We have 44 players. The bottom 17 players are probably on about $150k each. That includes rookies and draftees and journeymen like Campbell.

That leaves $15.1 million for the other 27 players.

Oliver's contract was reported as $7 million over 7 years. Petraccas was "under a million per year". Kosi is now $1.4 million.

So take those 3 out and we still have $11.8 million for the remaining 24 or $500k each.

There will be a spread between $200k and up to a million for those remaining players. Plenty of cap space to play with.

39 minutes ago, Demonstone said:

The Beach Boys?

God only knows!

8 hours ago, Kev said:

I haven't read much of this thread.

My thoughts on Kossie is we paid too much and for too long.

Geelong became a destination club partly due to the stars not getting the most out of their salary. Sacrifice led to success. I think there is alot of selfishness in our club, many playing for themselves.

We have an overblooted top end and Kossie now joins them.

If they were getting us wins when needed I wouldn't be so critical.

We are underachievers, the players are comfortable, and lack the ability to make each other better.

They sell this year as being of love, previous years it was brand or cohesion. Seems like they continue to fail at the rhetoric. Having an unequal approach to the players in terms of enumerations, will end in vexation from a few.

The club only succeeds when we are less selfish, difficult for the 43 to be in it together.

Will we be a destination club, with a restricted cap?

We have become a get out here type of club.

The level of bottom 6 of the best 22, is often a determinant of success.

Past evidence of Tracc and Clarry have shown that these kind of contracts haven't worked out well. Beyond the effect on the other players, those on that kind of contract become a disruption and unappreciative.

You're probably not wrong but I'm still glad we signed him.

33 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

You're probably not wrong but I'm still glad we signed him.

Kossie is definitely an entertainer.

The club will make money on the merchandise from the number 36, the gate takings, and possibly the extra members (dependent upon success).

Edited June 13Jun 13 by Kev

I've been a Dees member for more than 60 years (cheer squad '62-'68).

The joy of watching Robbie Flower during our bleakest years lives with me.

I hope I see another flag in my lifetime, but if not, then 5 or 10 years of Kozi magic wearing our glorious jumper, will suffice.